Wolves, Who's In Charge?

[bearpaw]

wacoyote I totally agree....we need a wolf specialist in this state badly....some of the wisest words I have seen in print on this forum.....

[WAcoyotehunter]

How do you know that mulehunter?  There are no photos, no witnesses, no real evidence except a dead cow and wolf tracks in the area.  I'm not saying that it's not what happened, I'm saying there is a reasonable chance that the cow died calving or shortly after and wolves ate on a carcass.  This is going to be the problem for a while....someone (an expert, not a rancher or a neighbor...) needs to be able to identify the signs.

I saw the pictures of the cow, they don't make me believe without a doubt that wolves killed the cow.

Again, it could have happened, but there must be a burden of proof... we need an expert that can handle these situations.

[WAcoyotehunter]

wacoyote I totally agree....we need a wolf specialist in this state badly....some of the wisest words I have seen in print on this forum.....

We might need more than one...

[wolfbait]

How do you know that mulehunter?  There are no photos, no witnesses, no real evidence except a dead cow and wolf tracks in the area.  I'm not saying that it's not what happened, I'm saying there is a reasonable chance that the cow died calving or shortly after and wolves ate on a carcass.  This is going to be the problem for a while....someone (an expert, not a rancher or a neighbor...) needs to be able to identify the signs.

I saw the pictures of the cow, they don't make me believe without a doubt that wolves killed the cow.

Again, it could have happened, but there must be a burden of proof... we need an expert that can handle these situations.

We need a biologist that is not biased! The cow had already calved out a few day prior to the wolves killin the cow. Why not bring hound dogs in? If its a cat or bear then that little problem is solved, perhaps they don't want the truth to be known In other states 90% of wolf kills are not confirmed, so as far as the ranchers getting a good deal for their losses do to the wolves, it is pure BS. The only way our biologist is going to confirm a wolf kill is if the wolf/wolves are lying there next to the livestock in a pool of their own blood I can tell you, if any of my stock gets jumped on by the wolves, there won't be any question of what did it, and I won't be calling the "investigators" I will be calling KXLY 4 news and then the sheriff.

[DOUBLELUNG]

Don't blame a guy for doing his job the way his employer demands.

I agree with much of what you said but wonder about this comment....

Does his employer demand him to claim all these kills are not wolves. I have to ask, do you think he is being told to deny wolves are making kills.

Nope.  I do think that unless cause of death is 100% clear, it is going to be called undetermined.  WDFW does not force their employees to lie - some (i.e., former director) might wish they could.  Professional credibility is not the employer's to expend.  Wolf presence was suspected by field personnel as early as 2005; that's not confirmation, and nobody was denying wolves might be present.  The presence of a pack was not confirmed until remote cameras captured pics of pups. 

[DOUBLELUNG]

DOUBLELUNG, please give ur a moment.

Under reply # 25 please look at picture again.

Cow mother were trying to protect her BRAND new calf baby.  Next thing Brand calf is missing and mother is laying DEAD. How impossible would it be cougar? Coyote? Bear? No way... But..... WOLVE!!! Yes... must be 5 or more to attack and 1 or 2 wolves took brand new calf up hill feeding to pups.
And other rest of pack stay with Cow mother ate all night.

That is a BIG mother cow got killed by wolves its proved.

Scott Fitkin is a LIAR PERIOD!!!  He tells whole public people its NOT wolves caused. He destroy our trustful with WDFW people.


Mulehunter

Since you asked - no, that is not proof of wolf depredation.  It could be consistent with wolf depredation, but it's not proof.

[mulehunter]

How do you know that mulehunter?  There are no photos, no witnesses, no real evidence except a dead cow and wolf tracks in the area.  I'm not saying that it's not what happened, I'm saying there is a reasonable chance that the cow died calving or shortly after and wolves ate on a carcass.  This is going to be the problem for a while....someone (an expert, not a rancher or a neighbor...) needs to be able to identify the signs.

I saw the pictures of the cow, they don't make me believe without a doubt that wolves killed the cow.

Again, it could have happened, but there must be a burden of proof... we need an expert that can handle these situations.

  

I assume u working for WDFW Biologlist, As well trainned like I said.  Geez,

I give up. Well.... I could do way better as Wolf Biologlist.  Anybody vote for me......


Mulehunter 

[wolfbait]

How do you know that mulehunter?  There are no photos, no witnesses, no real evidence except a dead cow and wolf tracks in the area.  I'm not saying that it's not what happened, I'm saying there is a reasonable chance that the cow died calving or shortly after and wolves ate on a carcass.  This is going to be the problem for a while....someone (an expert, not a rancher or a neighbor...) needs to be able to identify the signs.

I saw the pictures of the cow, they don't make me believe without a doubt that wolves killed the cow.

Again, it could have happened, but there must be a burden of proof... we need an expert that can handle these situations.

  

I assume u working for WDFW Biologlist, As well trainned like I said.  Geez,

I give up. Well.... I could do way better as Wolf Biologlist.  Anybody vote for me......


Mulehunter 

Mulehunter, I will vote for you if you hire me to help investigate and buy by ammunition.

[twisp_river_slayer]

I agree with WAcoyotehunter, every dead animal ranchers find now they just blam it on a wolf. When Cal Treser first reponded to the dead cow on the Golden Doe he wasnt sure what killed it. There were multiple sets of tracks around it that didnt really suggest that one particular species killed it. How do you confirm that wolves killed it?!? Im not supporting either side becuase it all doesnt make sense. The Libby Crk chicken killing event is just stupid. I saw her portable coup and she was asking for a masacer. Im supprised a coyote or coon didnt kill them a lot sooner. 

[bearpaw]

mulehunter, I will vote for you too, sign me up for wolf management like the guy in Idaho who has been getting $1500 per wolf removal because the anti's have prevented hunting the last few years.....

This state would rather pay professional hunters to destroy wolves than allow hunters a chance to enjoy a sport hunting opportunity....they are too stupid to realize the professional hunter is exactly that because he enjoys hunting...

[bearpaw]

Actually I hear what you are saying doublelung and I agree for the most part. A responsible biologist can't claim anything as fact if there is any reasonable doubt.

Problem is that it may be questionable if Fitkins is qualified to be in a position that the ranchers and people of this state must depend on his wolf assessments.

Perhaps someone with past experience in Idaho or Montana inspecting multiple wolf predations could do a better job in that position for the people and ranchers of Washington.

I can tell you from personal experience in learning about cougar hunting, it was guesswork learning about the first few cougar kills I found, but after you have seen a few dozen or more, you can usually spot a cougar kill as soon as you see it. Then a little investigating usually removes any doubt. Some of you know exactly what I am talking about here.

So I have to wonder.....
How much training in wolf kills has Fitkins had, and how many confirmed wolf kills has Fitkins inspected?

From what I have read Fitkins claims most kills are not conclusive.....
How many conclusive wolf kills has Fitkin inspected to be qualified as Washington's Wolf Depredation Specialist?

I have to say, I have never met or talked to the man, he may be the nicest guy in the world, he might be the best biologist for many other species in the state, I might really respect the man if I had a chance to talk with him.

However, Washington State's wolf plan is being developed around this man's opinions, I think it's reasonably prudent to ask exactly how much actual proven wolf experience this man has? If he has not been involved in numerous confirmed wolf predations with other experts in the field, how can he possibly and responsibly be Washington's Wolf Specialist and why is our state wolf plan being developed around his recommendations.

Any reasonably intelligent person must wonder how qualified the man is for this responsibility after reading what we have all read?

[DOUBLELUNG]

Why would a highly experienced wolf specialist leave ID, MT or WY to do the same job in WA?  High human population density, overwhelming urban political majority = stupid policies, political interference in all aspects of natural resources management, crowded woods, low hunter success, combat fishing, opening day pumpkin patches, high sales tax, high cost of living ... don't get me wrong, there is a lot to like here, but ... 

[bearpaw]

Why would a highly experienced wolf specialist leave ID, MT or WY to do the same job in WA?

That wasn't an answer to my question, but to answer your question, they seem to have all the other job positions filled. I would assume if a wolf specialist position was offered, there would be applicants and an experienced wolf specialist could be found....isn't that the usual process?

I would also assume that most people on either side of this argument would want an experienced wolf specialist involved, unless of coarse they had something to gain by not having a specialist involved.

[mulehunter]

mulehunter, I will vote for you too, sign me up for wolf management like the guy in Idaho who has been getting $1500 per wolf removal because the anti's have prevented hunting the last few years.....

This state would rather pay professional hunters to destroy wolves than allow hunters a chance to enjoy a sport hunting opportunity....they are too stupid to realize the professional hunter is exactly that because he enjoys hunting...

 

Sure if u will agree split half 750.00 each. I could help ya.

Mulehunter   

[WDFW-SUX]

Its a job.. Im sure we could find someone looking fr one of those.