Ethical challenge

[marc10000]

Say I shoot a deer in one GMU and have to track it into another closed unit. My gut tells me to break off the search. I haven't really seen anything written anywhere on this. Just curious what the board thinks. Thanks

[EastWaViking]

I you hit a deer follow it where ever it goes, private property, city park, back yard, where ever.  Follow it and finish it off.

[markts]

I am with Viking for sure. If you poke a hole in an animal you best be after it where ever it goes. If it goes on private property I would contact landowner first. Good luck and shoot straight. Mark

[tmike]

I shot a nice Whitetail last season that ended up on some private land. I drove around and contacted the owner and explained the situation. He was grateful for me taking the time to do that and told me to go get it. He even offered to help pack it out. I jumped it up and my nephew finished it off. While packing it out he came back by to help but it was already to the truck.I don't thing he would have appreciated us going in on our own.

[mossback91]

trail will lead back to where it was originally and prove that you shot the animal in a open unit.............

[jackelope]

call wdfw and let them know whats happening if possible. it pays to cover your a$$ when you can. aside from that i agree, follow it wherever it goes.

[adam.WI]

call wdfw and let them know whats happening if possible. it pays to cover your a$$ when you can. aside from that i agree, follow it wherever it goes.

agreed, and if it private land and the land owner says no, contact them then too.

[PolarBear]

It can be a sticky situation.  My hunting buddy shot a big bull at Matheney and it died 50 yards inside the park boundary.  He left and found a game cop and took him back to where he had shot it, showed him the hair and pool of blood and followed the blood trail to the bull.  The game cop immediately wrote him a ticket and seized the bull.  He took it to court and got it dropped but he still lost his bull.

[Tman]

You'de think the game cop would've used some common sense in that case.  After all, it is illegal to waste game.
 

[actionshooter]

I you hit a deer follow it where ever it goes, private property, city park, back yard, where ever.  Follow it and finish it off.

Thats just plain bad advice.  If it goes in a park, contact fish & game, if it goes on private land contact the owner, if they won't let you retrieve the animal call F&G. Anything else and you will get a ticket and loose the animal.

 I have hunted matheny for several years and have heard of game cops confiscating elk that went into the park and died. In both cases I know of, it seems the hunter might have been "misguided" when the bull was shot.

[boneaddict]

Depends where you are at for sure.  Hunting Yellowstone, if it goes into the park, DO NOT FOLLOW.  Call them and let them know, but you will not get the animal, 2 feet inside the park boundary.  DO NOT FOLLOW.  Private property, I'd secure permission or call the WDFW.  Another unit, If I could I'd call.  I've done this and had one leave and did just that without problem.  I found the bull, then went and reprted my problem.  All was well.  I doubt they ever came and looked but I gave very specific details. ANd for all you *censored*es that don't think I'd tear up my tag or make a bad shot hit one up in the Selkirks, hit a limb I did not see at 30 and went high.  I followed him for 6 miles until he crossed the canadian border.  I did not pursue from there, and TORE UP MY TAG.  HUNT OVER!  He bled about 4 tablespoons of blood that whole 6 miles and was quite fine when I abandoned his trail.

[WDFW-SUX]

So I have hunted on the boundary of Rocky mt National park in Colorado and the Rangers there are the best.  They allow you to use the park to access areas that are only accessible through the park. If you shoot one and it runs into the park they will help you track, dispatch and retrieve your game.  I hunted through the park 3 days and they had a very easy sign in box at one of the gates and then I could go where ever I wanted.... I dont understand why it has to be a big deal with other parks.. I think its just anti hunting attitudes that make it difficult.

[boneaddict]

I'd agree, Yellowstone is its own creation.   

Is that the Park Deerking got nailed in.

[WDFW-SUX]

I was the only one in the park most mornings it was really cool here is the field I had to walk across every morning to acess the trail head.. all my gear and no rangers with the elk going crazy

[WDFW-SUX]

There are some different laws about shooting from one GMU to another even if you are shooting into a closed GMU but im not a 100% on them so I wont post about what I think they are but you guys should ask your friendly local game warden

[tonymoe]

This is interesting, I fully believe in contacting the proper people upon entering a closed unit or private property. I am kind of in a weird situation. I hunt in 7-10 miles in a wilderness and am VERY close to the PCT boundary. There is a lot of work to get an animal out that deep on foot and no livestock. I have not had an animal cross the boundary line, but, I am sure it will happen someday. I have had this in the back of my mind before.

[Bob33]

Legally you cannot enter private property without permission, or you can be cited for trespassing.  Chasing a wounded animal does not alter that.  Chasing a wounded animal into a closed GMU or park means you are hunting illegally: the same as if you were not chasing a wounded animal.

The best advice is to NOT enter the property without permission or authorization.  You can do it, and you may get away with it, and it may even be the most "ethical" course of action, but it is still illegal.

I'm a hunter education instructor and this question often comes up.  The enforcement officers always give the same answer: get permission or authorization first.  If a landowner will not give you permission, contact the local enforcement officer.  You can even call 911.  You cannot enter private property without permission, or you may be cited.

As for shooting into a closed GMU: your bullet remains your property while it is moving, and you can be cited for trespass or illegal hunting.

[huntnphool]

call wdfw and let them know whats happening if possible. it pays to cover your a$$ when you can. aside from that i agree, follow it wherever it goes.

[boneaddict]

Good post Bob

[bow4elk]

Say I shoot a deer in one GMU and have to track it into another closed unit. My gut tells me to break off the search. I haven't really seen anything written anywhere on this. Just curious what the board thinks. Thanks

By law, you are to do everything you can to recover game.  You would first need to call the WDFW enforcement and tell them about the situation.  They would instruct you on how to proceed and may even send someone out to escort you in your search.  The state patrol can also be called to get support.

Same goes for private land.  If you shoot a buck and he crosses onto land that is posted.  The landowner, by law, must allow you to recover the deer.  If they refuse, the WDFW or State Patrol will step in and escort you.

[marc10000]

OK, that's what I was looking for. I feel good about that, it just sounds right! Thanks.

[jstone]

you owe it to the animal to try what it takes to recover it. Dont hunt to close to the boundry if you wont.

[ICEMAN]

...Same goes for private land.  If you shoot a buck and he crosses onto land that is posted.  The landowner, by law, must allow you to recover the deer.  If they refuse, the WDFW or State Patrol will step in and escort you.

I heard that they do not have to let you on, private property rights trumping your right to pursue, but if they deny you access, Wildlife will give them the option of letting you look and recover, or the property owner getting a waste of wildlife citation.

[actionshooter]

...Same goes for private land.  If you shoot a buck and he crosses onto land that is posted.  The landowner, by law, must allow you to recover the deer.  If they refuse, the WDFW or State Patrol will step in and escort you.

I heard that they do not have to let you on, private property rights trumping your right to pursue, but if they deny you access, Wildlife will give them the option of letting you look and recover, or the property owner getting a waste of wildlife citation.

Thats my understanding also.

[carpsniperg2]

Bob33 is right on every word is true we have gone to cort many times over violations on are ranch you can not legally go after any deer on private ground without permision any buddy who want to disagree does not know what they are talking about as hunters we have a code of ethics yes we owe it to the animal but to break the law is still againts the law and wrong and no the fish and wildlife can not write the landowner a ticket for wasting game they did not pull the trigger come on guys lol

[ICEMAN]

Well carpsniperg, that is what I have been told by more than one gamie, if you knock and ask and are denied, they will ask the owner permission for you to get it out. If denied, the gamie will go look (their right to investigate) they find the animal, the land owner gets cited not for denying access but for waste of wildlife.

[carpsniperg2]

we have won that same battle in court more than once the game warden might just be playin big i assure you the charge would not hold up and would be droped in court personal experiance

[carpsniperg2]

i mean thats like saying if a bad guy shoots someone and they find the gun at your house that was used the crime is put on you that not how the system works and wardens only have the right to investage "from my experiance" if a wildlife crime has been commited or a report if a landowner turns down some one to go on there land that is not a crime in any way shape or form moral of the story is knock it down were the animal stands and don't worry about head shots and neck shots no tracking lol

[Wayne1]

Correct me if I'm wrong...   but when you say

we have won that same battle in court more than once the game warden might just be playin big i assure you the charge would not hold up and would be droped in court personal experiance

Does that mean you have not allowed hunters to retrieve wounded animals on your property ?

[carpsniperg2]

no it means it depends on the situation at hand but 50% yes and 50% no we have alot of road hunter shoot a deer from the road and think they should have the right to go into our private property which way just as private when they shot the deer and get it out so nnnnnnnnooooooooooo wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[Wayne1]

Was hoping it was something of that kinda situation....   and not just telling everyone flat out "NO"

[carpsniperg2]

we are not a holes but like i said some guy drives up shoots a deer out of his truck from the road on private property wants to go in and get his deer and you tell him no if he calls the game warden he comes out he dang well aint going to right the land owner a wasting game ticket for not letting the sob go in and get it come on guys it depends on the cituation at hand and for people to say that the land owner is going to get ticketed  dom't not know what they talking about.

[DeerHarvester]

carpsniperg2
I agree with you, the land owner is not going to get a ticket for wasting game and if he does the judge will drop it. NOW the gamewarden does have a right to enter the property and investigate if he has probable cause a crime may have been committed on the property. If the owner stands in his way and refuses to allow him on the property, he could be arrested for obstructing an investigation and that may hold up in court.  I say "may" because you never know with judges. For those of you who believe a search warrant is needed, not the case. There is no expectation of privacy on land.  

I think the point most are making is ask and be civil about it and contact the authorities when possible. 

[ICEMAN]

I would love to hear Gamie's take on this question. Here is how the RCW reads, and I argue that if you are a private landowner, one who denies a hunter to recover game he wounded on public land, which ran onto your private land to expire, that you risk being cited. Does the private property owner now possess the game...?  Here is the RCW:

RCW 77.15.170
Waste of fish and wildlife — Penalty.  

(1) A person is guilty of waste of fish and wildlife in the second degree if:

     (a) The person kills, takes, or possesses fish, shellfish, or wildlife and the value of the fish, shellfish, or wildlife is greater than twenty dollars but less than two hundred fifty dollars; and

     (b) The person recklessly allows such fish, shellfish, or wildlife to be wasted.

     (2) A person is guilty of waste of fish and wildlife in the first degree if:

     (a) The person kills, takes, or possesses fish, shellfish, or wildlife having a value of two hundred fifty dollars or more or wildlife classified as big game; and

     (b) The person recklessly allows such fish, shellfish, or wildlife to be wasted.

     (3)(a) Waste of fish and wildlife in the second degree is a misdemeanor.

     (b) Waste of fish and wildlife in the first degree is a gross misdemeanor. Upon conviction, the department shall revoke any license or tag used in the crime and shall order suspension of the person's privileges to engage in the activity in which the person committed waste of fish and wildlife in the first degree for a period of one year.

     (4) It is prima facie evidence of waste if a processor purchases or engages a quantity of food fish, shellfish, or game fish that cannot be processed within sixty hours after the food fish, game fish, or shellfish are taken from the water, unless the food fish, game fish, or shellfish are preserved in good marketable condition.

[carpsniperg2]

i know how the regs read and you are right iceman you COULD RISK getting cited but if you do in my dealings with this subject would be dropped in court another alternative way of thinking would to be be nice don't break the law and trespass contact the landowner and see if you can go in and get it and if the say no ask if the landowner could get it out for you we have done that before all my dealing with telling people no come from people who have broke the law to shoot the animal ie from the road and etc so what i am saying on that part is know because of the been there done there fact now here is the ball droper for you guys to think about we have had people shoot deer in the road and argue it was shot on public property which the road is and what you are saying should give them the right to go in and get the deer because they shot it on public property we have taken that to court and guess who won "us" so and heres another one for you if a deer is shot on public property and come onto private ground the land owner says no to the person fish and wildlife can show up goin and investigate with the landowner then help the landowner load it on his truck to remove the deer, drive right pass the prson who shot it take in to a shelter for people etc and donate it to the needy then how can you get a ticket for wasted game you cant. and how can you get a ticket by the game warden when he did his investigation the animal in what you are saying becomes the landowners to be able to get a ticket so the person who shot it is SOL because its not theres anymore if its on privte property.

[eastsidebugle]

i wish the wdfw would weigh in on this one.. I once heard that it was permissable to pursue a wounded animal anywhere it goes.  I deffinately think it would be wise to take a few minutes and contact a gamie before getting in trouble.  Are there not any wardens on this site?  I know there might be a lot of you who dont like them but it is in everybody's best interest if we all work together.  I know a few really great ones.

[yelp]

There are lots of issues with this topic.  I would attempt to contact landowner, if I can't I would trespass knowing that I could be cited, recover my game, tag it and face the consequences. Most Enforcement officers would seize animal from landowner and then decide what to do with it depending on circumstances. Personally I would call 911 and get someone to respond so that the matter could be dealt with.  If you aren't guilty of trespass you shouldn't have a problem getting the officers involved. There are unethical hunters however that shoot animals on private to say that it ran over or onto the private property..To be honest hard to prove..Most landowners have to press charges and most tresspass charges are minimal. Iceman covered wastage, however there are some other WAC's and RCW's that you should be aware of....

Remember each situation has its own issues and they aren't all the same.  If you choose for instance not to get a permission slip from a landowner in a WDFW Access Program...the following would apply..and penaltie maybe assessed depending on the type of animal harvested..It could be construed as more than a tresspassing fine/issue.


NEW SECTION
WAC 232-12-421   Hunt or possess big game without an access permit.   (1) It is unlawful to hunt for big game or possess big game taken on property in an access contract between the landowner or land manager and the department, unless:

     (a) The hunter possesses a valid access permit provided on a standard form by the department, and issued to the hunter by the landowner, land manager, or the department in addition to all other required hunting licenses and permits; or

     (b) The property is in a contract between the department and the landowner that does not restrict persons from hunting and does not require an access permit.

     (2) Each big game animal possessed in violation of this section shall be treated as a separate offense under RCW 77.15.030.

     (3) Violation of this section is punishable under RCW 77.15.410, unlawful recreational hunting of big game in the second degree, unless the hunting for or possession of big game constitutes unlawful recreational hunting of big game in the first degree.

and birds ...

NEW SECTION
WAC 232-12-422   Hunt or possess a wild animal or wild bird without an access permit.   (1) It is unlawful to hunt for a wild bird or wild animal, except big game, or possess any wild bird or wild animal, except big game, taken on property in an access contract between the landowner or land manager and the department, unless:

     (a) The hunter possesses a valid access permit provided on a standard form by the department, and issued to the hunter by the landowner, land manager, or the department in addition to all other required hunting licenses and permits; or

     (b) The property is in a contract between the department and the landowner that does not restrict persons from hunting and does not require an access permit.

     (2) Violation of this section is punishable under RCW 77.15.400 or 77.15.430.


Also...RCW 77.15.410
Unlawful hunting of big game -- Penalty.
(1) A person is guilty of unlawful hunting of big game in the second degree if the person:

     (a) Hunts for, takes, or possesses big game and the person does not have and possess all licenses, tags, or permits required under this title;

     (b) Violates any rule of the commission or director regarding seasons, bag or possession limits, closed areas including game reserves, closed times, or any other rule governing the hunting, taking, or possession of big game; or

     (c) Possesses big game taken during a closed season for that big game or taken from a closed area for that big game.

     (2) A person is guilty of unlawful hunting of big game in the first degree if the person was previously convicted of any crime under this title involving unlawful hunting, killing, possessing, or taking big game, and within five years of the date that the prior conviction was entered the person:

     (a) Hunts for big game and does not have and possess all licenses, tags, or permits required under this title;

     (b) Acts in violation of any rule of the commission or director regarding seasons, bag or possession limits, closed areas including game reserves, or closed times; or

     (c) Possesses big game taken during a closed season for that big game or taken from a closed area for that big game.

     (3)(a) Unlawful hunting of big game in the second degree is a gross misdemeanor. Upon conviction of an offense involving killing or possession of big game taken during a period of time when hunting for the particular species is not permitted, or in excess of the bag or possession limit, the department shall revoke all hunting licenses and tags and order a suspension of hunting privileges for two years.

     (b) Unlawful hunting of big game in the first degree is a class C felony. Upon conviction, the department shall revoke all hunting licenses or tags and the department shall order the person's hunting privileges suspended for ten years.


[]

And finally Penalty assessments below..RCW 77.15.420
Illegally taken or possessed wildlife — Criminal wildlife penalty assessed.

(1) If a person is convicted of violating RCW 77.15.410 and that violation results in the death of wildlife listed in this section, the court shall require payment of the following amounts for each animal killed or possessed. This shall be a criminal wildlife penalty assessment that shall be paid to the clerk of the court and distributed each month to the state treasurer for deposit in the fish and wildlife enforcement reward account created in RCW 77.15.425.


(a)   Moose, mountain sheep, mountain goat, and all wildlife species classified as endangered by rule of the commission, except for mountain caribou and grizzly bear as listed under (d) of this

     subsection . . . . . . . . . . . .   $4,000
(b)   Elk, deer, black bear, and cougar . . . . . . . . . . . .   $2,000
(c)   Trophy animal elk and deer . . . . . . . . . . . .   $6,000
(d)   Mountain caribou, grizzly bear, and trophy animal mountain sheep . . . . . . . . . . . .   

$12,000

     (2) No forfeiture of bail may be less than the amount of the bail established for hunting during closed season plus the amount of the criminal wildlife penalty assessment in subsection (1) of this section.

     (3) For the purpose of this section a "trophy animal" is:

     (a) A buck deer with four or more antler points on both sides, not including eyeguards;

     (b) A bull elk with five or more antler points on both sides, not including eyeguards; or

     (c) A mountain sheep with a horn curl of three-quarter curl or greater.

     For purposes of this subsection, "eyeguard" means an antler protrusion on the main beam of the antler closest to the eye of the animal.

     (4) If two or more persons are convicted of illegally possessing wildlife in subsection (1) of this section, the criminal wildlife penalty assessment shall be imposed on them jointly and separately.

     (5) The criminal wildlife penalty assessment shall be imposed regardless of and in addition to any sentence, fines, or costs otherwise provided for violating any provision of this title. The criminal wildlife penalty assessment shall be included by the court in any pronouncement of sentence and may not be suspended, waived, modified, or deferred in any respect. This section may not be construed to abridge or alter alternative rights of action or remedies in equity or under common law or statutory law, criminal or civil.

     (6) A defaulted criminal wildlife penalty assessment may be collected by any means authorized by law for the enforcement of orders of the court or collection of a fine or costs, including but not limited to vacation of a deferral of sentencing or vacation of a suspension of sentence.

     (7) A person assessed a criminal wildlife penalty assessment under this section shall have his or her hunting license revoked and all hunting privileges suspended until the penalty assessment is paid through the registry of the court in which the penalty assessment was assessed.

     ( The criminal wildlife penalty assessments provided in subsection (1) of this section shall be doubled in the following instances:

     (a) When a person is convicted of spotlighting big game under RCW 77.15.450;

     (b) When a person commits a violation that requires payment of a wildlife penalty assessment within five years of a prior gross misdemeanor or felony conviction under this title;

     (c) When the person killed the animal in question with the intent of bartering, selling, or otherwise deriving economic profit from the animal or the animal's parts; or

     (d) When a person kills the animal under the supervision of a licensed guide.


[2005 c 406 § 5; 1998 c 190 § 62.]



http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=77.15.420