GPW and the Entiat...

[MichaelJ]

Ok got a question and am curious to know what you guys think!
We all know that the Entiat has gone WAY downhill the last couple of years, however there seems to be great success still happening in the GPW north of Entiat (and the areas just south of the GPW border...) where supposedly all the Entiat Deer summer...  If there is still quite a bit of mature bucks being taken in the GPW, then why aren't we seeing these deer on the winter range?  What do you think?

Michael

[NoBark]

Help me out. What is the GPW?

[NoBark]

Thanks.  Only been in there twice. Drew the tag two years ago and hunted the first half of the late archery season. This year my son drew the second half of the late season archery.  The does were way more skittish this year. But, I have to say we saw much better bucks this year too.  We only saw three does taken, and the ones we talked too wren't seeing much. (at least thats what they told us)  So, I really have no history with the area to add to this conversation. But I will be interested to see what others say.

[Cougeyes]

however there seems to be great success still happening in the GPW north of Entiat (and the areas just south of the GPW border...) where supposedly all the Entiat Deer summer...  If there is still quite a bit of mature bucks being taken in the GPW, then why aren't we seeing these deer on the winter range?  What do you think?

You're not seeing them on the winter range because most of them s are being shot in the GPW before they get there.  Naw...I dont know anything about that area either, possibly they winter somewhere else other than the entiat but i'm guessing not. 

[jackelope]

You're not seeing them on the winter range because most of them s are being shot in the GPW before they get there.

kind of what i was thinking too. i don't know much about that country, but i did see some pic's of some big bucks from the high hunt on a certain outfitters website...
 

[Ridgerunner]

I think its becuase numbers are down, any wilderness area in the state is going to harbor its fair share of oversize bucks during the summer, sometimes those hunters are the best ones to go after the trophies thats perhaps why you see more killed up there.

[ICEMAN]

Is wildlife monitoring the cougar population in this area? I snowshoed into tyee at Mad river a few winters ago in late January (froze my MFing behind off in a solotent in the teens...) Lots of cougar predation going on then... Just wondering if we are seeing a reduction in bucks from the cats too?

[Cougeyes]

Is wildlife monitoring the cougar population in this area?

In the GPW or the Entiat?  I'm pretty sure they dont have any they're monitoring in either of those areas.  They do in Winthrop and Twisp area as well as the 5 county hound hunting area.

[ICEMAN]

Sorry, was referring to the winter kill in the entiat.

[Cougeyes]

You know in an area that once had great bucks (so i'm told) i've never actually been up there or hunted up there, you would think that if there was a decline like everyone is saying they (WDFW) would want to get to the bottom of it.  I mean hunting is what basically runs the wildlife management and if the trophy deer numbers keep declining in these special hunt areas then they may lose some of that revenue because people may not put in for these areas if there aren't many tophies, but a trophy for one person may just be a 24 inch 4 point vs a 180-190 inch 28" 4 point so I could be wrong about the decline in people who would apply.

I think if the numbers do not rebound they need to study what is affecting the deer.  Whether it be collaring a bunch of cougars and determining their impacts and determining how many are actually in the area and if they're killing does or more of the bucks; or shutting down human winter activity (snowmobiling, snowshoeing skiing etc...), stress on an animal in winter could severly limit an animals survival by burning more enery than necessary.

From what the study I know around Kittitas County cougars are not killing the bucks but mainly the does and mainly cow elk and not bulls.  This seems to be the trend for a lot of the cougar populations.  Why take a risk on injuring yourself from an antler gore...much easier to kill someting that has a lesser chance of hurting yourself.  But in Idaho I know one guy found that the cougars he was studying were killing a lot of mature bucks, but that was after the rut when they were much weaker. 

But...I do think some study needs to be done, I think a lot of people here have some good ideas, unfortunetly those surveys and questionaires WDFW sometimes puts out for public comments probably does little good, meaning they dont act on many if any of them.

[MichaelJ]

Some good input going on here guys...  Where else do you think these bucks up the GPW would winter at?  Lake Chelan area is a given, but then again you don't hear of too many monsters being seen there on the winter ranger (atleast i do not...).  I've also heard that the Alpine lakes Wilderness has really improved the last couple years...  Bucks wintering around Cashmere and Birch and in the mission unit West of Wenatchee...  However it seems like the GPW deer would all head straight to the Entiat at the first sign of snow.

Michael

[Muleyslyr]

Michael.....The GPW is a very large area.  I don't think ALL the deer would/should head to the Entiat.  Sure, an obviously large number of em' do, but I think a lot will stay or go into the Chelan area as well.  Especially as crowded and popular as the Entiat area is. 

I also think the Chiwawa unit is getting more and more popular and attracting more hunters every year, and that unit acts as a natural funnel for the migrating deer heading to the Entiat.  I honestly believe a lot of those deer are getting cut off before they even make to their winter grounds.

 

[HuntinFool]

There are good bucks in the entiat every year.  A guy i know watches 5 to 6 bucks every year and he thinks they are all 170 and up deer.  My uncle has also seen the sheds the guy has gathered from the bucks.  My dad went up the entiat one day this year and saw a buck that would go in the 170's, my uncle was up the entiat cutting wood and saw a few bucks that would go from the 160-170 range.  My taxidermist also told me yesterday that he was taking a guy up the entiat with an archery tag and saw a couple handfuls of 160-180 deer.  The deer are there most people just aren't looking in the right spots. 

Also with this winter we have had each snow we have gotten the snow melts on those south facing slopes within a few days to a week.

[jackelope]

should this place be crawling with 200" deer? sure sounds like there's a good # of  160-170 bucks with an occasional wopper. don't string me up here, cuz i didn't live here during the good old days and i have no concept of what it used to be like...
but should every buck in the entiat be a 190-200" deer?

[Skyvalhunter]

Well I would think 300 knows what he is talking about when he said the quality bucks werent there. He has the experience. Some might see a 160 buck and believe its a fair amount bigger.

[HuntinFool]

a big buck didn't get big by being stupid

[Wea300mag]

There are good bucks in the entiat every year.  A guy i know watches 5 to 6 bucks every year and he thinks they are all 170 and up deer.  My uncle has also seen the sheds the guy has gathered from the bucks.  My dad went up the entiat one day this year and saw a buck that would go in the 170's, my uncle was up the entiat cutting wood and saw a few bucks that would go from the 160-170 range.  My taxidermist also told me yesterday that he was taking a guy up the entiat with an archery tag and saw a couple handfuls of 160-180 deer.  The deer are there most people just aren't looking in the right spots. 

First of all, I would like to see some pics of all these 170+ deer, yes I know none of these people have a camera but they "think" they are all 170+. Most people see a four pt that is even with the ears and immediately that is a 180, I call BS, what they are looking at is a normal 140-160 buck. I'm sure there are a few bucks in the Entiat that are 180+ but finding them on any given day (on public land) is not easy. Then the number of bigger bucks has declined substantially in the last 5 years.

[Skyvalhunter]

I agree with you Dan. We know you put in that extra effort!! judging a buck is not as easy as some people think. You will get him next time..

[MichaelJ]

a big buck didn't get big by being stupid

Ya ur right, but the number of big bucks has gone WAY down the last couple of years... yes there's still some mature bucks in there, but not nearly the amount as has been in the past...  Go down to Ardenvoir and check out the hunting "albums"...  Not nearly the amount of BIG bucks taken in the last few years compared to pre '03 years...

Michael

[muleracks]

Is it possible that the Chelan County herd is just suffering from too much harvest by us?  The fires of 1988 and 1994 pretty well whipped out escape cover but created great browse.  It is easy to fill a tag during the General Season and then it gets even easier to kill a buck in November and December for permit holders.

My vote is to cut way back on the winter range kills by restricting special permits and add a permit system for archery hunters in the Swakane unit.  Bet you would see a recovery with more age on the bucks and more quality between their ears.