Elk seminars and what I want to know.

[HawkenBob]

This thread is geared tword Elknuts thread. Sorry to de-rail it but I want to also introduce myself on the Elk Forum. I made a intro post on the "Intro" forum but feel I should do it here as some may not see it before thay see me here. Heres the link to my intro, long I know but its my only hunting story.
 
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,329.255.html

Hopefully the next has lots a scenery pics and if Im very lucky maybe even a dead animal. Lol

Anyway, as a new hunter I have lots of questions. And maybe I can give a guy like elknuts some good ideas about what one might want to learn more than just what you can read.

So here are a couple things I have questions about after reading everything I can find. as well as observing in the past.

1. There is lots of talk about the 4 things Elk need. Food,   Water, cover, and privacy.
My question is how far can these needs be apart to hold a population of Elk? will they travel 20 miles to get there water? Whats the avarage? Whats extreme?

2. When I see Elk in May up near Rimrock and am finding sheds is this also were they may be when I come back in Augest and Sept to scout? Will they spawn in this area? Is there an elevation they like to Spawn at? (My fishing side).

I have to head out but thought Id start with these. Calling is going to be a major part of my study this year so Ill have lots of questions on that too.

And thanks to everyone and to those that seem to be really honed in the elk hunting world and share with the rest of us. Elknuts, Im sure you'll see some orders from me soon. Boneaddict, your stories and pics are what I dream of. As well all the other great posts this season. Probably not much from me to help you guys but I will do all I can. Even if its just some great scouting shots. I am a pretty avid photo shooter!

M-ray, if you see this your Peaches Bull impressed the heck out of me. Way to put it all together!!! Thats a dream trip for sure.

Talk soon guys.

[kenzmad]

HawkenBob , welcome . you have some legit ?'s. elk will not travel 20 miles to get their water, they will stay "near"it. part of their daily routine is traveling from feeding to bedding to water not necessarily in that order. depending on the amount of pressure they are receiving, they can be a fairly easy animal to pattern. the ones I chase have a 4 day cycle. If you are going to hunt the wetside, you will find that most of the water they need comes from just eating the plants. small creeks are everywhere. I do not have alot of eastern WA elk hunting under my belt but have been at it on the westside for 20 years. may be apples to oranges. as far as where they spawn, I can't let this slip by. salmon spawn,elk breed. sorry but I couldn't resist. keep at it. elk hunting is not like deer hunting. elk hunting is alot more intense and alot more addictive. once you see one you want to see them all.

[Elknut1]

 Good questions for sure! A lot depends on the areas/States you hunt in, not one answer for water for example applies to all areas. Hunting pressure is another factor in how far elk will go to water. The hotter the days the more water is needed. On average elk will bed from 1/2 mile to 3 miles from a main water source, this main water source may be just a small pool of water not a stream or creek. Elk will seek wallows as well, no doubt there are many areas where elk will bed within 100yds or closer to quiet water, elk do not like bedding near noisy water sources, this can cut down on their hearing of a possible intruder.---In drier areas & States elk will travel 5 miles to water, it's not an issue with them it's the norm, so considering the place you are hunting will dictate an elks activity.
  One thing I really consider when elk hunting is finding the highest water on the mtn, this is a very good area to consider as elk will likely be bedded close by, this can be any water source, wallows are generally in the area as well  !!!

  Calling elk plays a major role in ones success as well as does good "setups", you may start your hunt Spot & Stalk in attempts to ambush elk or sitting a treestand in a great spot, but at times calling is needed to seal the deal on either of these methods as well as many other techniques. Say you're considering a treestand over an active  wallow. (that's one being used) at times if you just get to the wallow & do some noisy raking & a grunt or 2 then splash the water with a stick real well so the sound carries, then get into your stand this can bring a bull your way out of curiosity as to whose at this wallow? Patience is needed here because the bull may take his sweet time to show up if he's bedded nearby & not in an aggressive mood! Just something to think about!

  Of course there's much more to calling elk or using natural elk sounds to getting elk to come your way, but you have to start somewhere! (grin) Feel free to fire away with the questions, I'm sure there's many here willing to help out!

  ElkNut1

[HawkenBob]

Thanks for the reply Kenzmad and Elknut. I have to figure out were I want to hunt, then I can spend more time looking. I love the Oly Penn but also love the idea of hunting the East side sparse forests. I love hiking over there as you dont need trails and such.

So besides just there roaming area, I want to know more about there yearly patterns. I know they need the 4 things and lets say the 4 things are within 4 miles. Will this area be used all year every year?
I realisize the Elk move up and down with the snow so it seems they would have at least 2 areas for both? Every year my friends that hunt all cant wait to see if the snow brings the Elk down during the modern season near Rimrock. I know alot of them are  coming to the feeding station at Oak creek. But why are they up near the snow in the first place? To stay cooler in the summer and better vegitation?
In sept and Oct before the snow were they lower and then went up? Or were Archery and ML's hunting up that high? Maybe some of this would reveal too much. I know internet and such you'll usaually only get general info.

But in May I see Elk at about 3500 to 4200 feet and never see snow up there. Its quite a ways up still.

I really do think that Oly Penn Elk use a smaller area. There needs can be met in a quarter mile in most area's Id think.

So my next question:
If you had all year to scout an area would you go looking for them in Jan, How bout March?
What do you look for at different parts of the year?
I think a seasoned hunter dosent need as much time but how could a rookie utilise the whole year scouting an area effectively. Or do there area's change come late summer (Augest Sept)?

Keep in mind Ive already narrowed my areas to 3 GMU's on each side, all connecting. I have all of them plotted on my GPS topo software and also some topo maps so I always know were Im at and were the lines are.

If Im ready to start looking now is it even worth it I guess is my biggest question. I suspect at least you can learn about all the land probably. And start learning new acess points and such or just easier ways to get in there.

Thats great info on the Elkand them wanting tio stay away from loud water. Its little things like this that can save allot of time on the learning curve. I dont expect anyone to take me to there spots, I really want to do it on my own. But little key tips like these can save a guys days and many miles maybe.

Is a wallow just small pool were maybe a dried up creek bed could be?

Thanks for any reply's

[Elknut1]

  Wow!! That's a lot of questions there!! (grin) I'll do the best but brief answering as possible! First off, you are putting way too much emphasis on the 4 things there, sure they're needed but it's of little importance come elk hunting time. Sure some may disagree, yet, that's fine, there's feed & water everywhere come July,Aug,Sept,Oct.
  In most areas not all, elk migrate out of the higher snow country which eventually buries all feed, they move lower for survival purposes. Many areas have late hunts where they feel herd management is needed therefore hunters like your buddies there take advantage of the late season as the elk migrate down to lower ground where feed is available.
  Obviously in July, Aug,Sept there is no snow in an elks summer range, at least none to speak about or at depths to concern them or risk survival. Yes, elk seek parts of the mtn such as north sides too keep body temps down, there are other parts of the mtn that accomplish this as well such as heavily timbered brushy areas where the areas may stay very cool as well. On bad insect years you'll find elk up unusually high, even near the tops of ridges in bedding areas. They do this because winds are more prevalent & a little stronger thus insects because of their size stay away from such windy areas, so a lot depends on the time of summer.
  Generally elk will be found bedded 1/3 from the top of most mtns that contain elk, again hunting pressure can dictate their location as well. They can easily be pushed into undesirable very hard to get at areas when highly pressured by hunting. They will go to great extents for survival purposes when forced too. Be willing to get well off the roads & penetrate when needed!

  Yes, elk are generally lower in early Summer if there were no hunting pressure at all they would stay where the feed is plentiful, but can be forced into areas with less feed come hunting seasons. There is more too this but this is a basic answer for now!

  Too, elk can & do cover a lot of ground, in many cases elk will hole up in an area 7-14 days in a row sometimes longer depending on the size of the mtn, draw, basins, again pressure can move them prematurely but I find elk frequently using the same areas for 10 days at a time easily. Then there are their breeding areas, once you find elk in Sept. in various spots make a mental note as elk will use these areas yearly.

  Your best bet for scouting elk country is from June on, before that you'll be where they will not be come archery season times in most areas. I'm talking about elk in general here in all States not just WA. Finding elk at anytime is a great time to hang around the herds & do a lot of watching & listening, they can teach you volumes about their sounds & behavior.  When scouting I'm not interested in finding elk themselves unless it's from afar with optics on vantage points. Other than that I enter areas once elk are bedded in late morning & check for elk sign, that's all I need to know they're using an area. The closer to your hunting dates the better. A month or 2 before that & you'll be spinning your wheels as the elk have been long gone!

  Some of my best elk areas are 1-2 miles in. Other areas I must go 5 miles, all depends on how easy the access is. If you're having a tough time locating/finding elk during hunting seasons in Aug,Sept,Oct. then go out during daylight times & scout areas where sound will travel well, pick out several spots while you can see, such as distant basins, draws running north/south or east/west, sounds such as location bugles will travel a mile easily in the middle of the night. Midnight is a great time for this or an hour to hour & a half before hunting light. Elk are extremely brave at night & will readily respond to a location call at this time. All you're doing is asking other elk where they are, they will generally respond during the night when there's nothing to fear! Do not cow call at this time as a bull could come sneaking your way while you're there or after you're long gone & smell where you stood. Rarely if ever will distant elk show up on one or two location bugles, odds are they won't so play it safe. Once at a designated are & you call, wait at least 20 minutes before leaving to the next area you've pre-scouted, not all elk respond right away.
  Once you locate elk in an area be rest assured they'll be there come morning, elk will hang in their night time feeding/watering bedding areas up to 1 1/2 hour after light giving you the needed time to work them!

  You might also put 2 & 2 together & know once you find where elk are using an area at night they will return there the next evening generally before dark, unless harassed & forced out of the area. If you plan ahead you can now find where they are entering this area by their trails & such, since you know the meadow or valley they were in the night before. It's a great spot for a treestand or ground blind whatever works for you! Just get in there a good couple hours before dark & have a good "Setup" with favorable wind in your favor from where you expect them to come from!---Well this is what I consider a brief statement!  (grin) Hope this helps out, there's tons more!!!

  ElkNut1