Rebarreling Question

[haugenna]

I have a Tikka T3 Lite in 300 Win and I want to make it a more accurate hunting rifle and still maintain the lightweight rifle.  

I want to put a match barrel on it.  I am going to use a gunsmith to do it.  What types of things are they going to do to the gun and barrel.  Square the action, thread the barrel, chamber the barrel?  What else?

I plan on shootng 175 Bergers in it and I am looking at using a Lilja match grade barrel.

As you can see I am in the early stages.

Any and all advice from people who know how to do it, what to do, and have done it in the past, is much appreciated

[robescc]

To address your PM, here is my project. I rebarreled this thing.  I bought the action for $150 at a gun show.  It was a standard bolt face.
I took it to Bechmark Barrels and they made it a 300 win mag.  They squared the reciever, opened up the bolt face to a magnum, lapped the lugs, put in a sako extractor and barreled it.  I went stainless with a varmint contour with flutes and a brake.  This is the stock I use for hunting because it is 3 lbs lighter than my Bell and Calson stock I use for long range and tactical shoots. They also bedded itfor me and bedded the scope.  
It all came to about $1200

You can get yours squared, lapped and barreld for I think about $500. You would have to call Ron to find out.  He could tell you more.
My friend, who is an auto body master, helped me with te custom paint job.  We like duracoat.
Here is a link with a few of my friends shooting with Benchmark Barrels.  Check out his other videos
http://www.youtube.com/user/beitner1#p/u/4/Rug6MiXs_wY

[AWS]

It depends on how accurate you want it to be.  Getting a 300 Win Mag to be very accurate specially a light weight rig can get expensive.   What do you plan to do with this rig?  If this is going to be a long range hunting rig I'd kiss the light wieght idea goodbye, your going to have to shoot it alot doing load developement and learning to shoot it at distance. 

AWS

[JackOfAllTrades]

I guess my question would be, how does it shoot now? Tikka's are known for being pretty darn accurate.

First thing I start with is a trigger job. Possibly an optic and optic mount upgrade  You'd be surprised at how accurate a rifle can be when the shooter can really do his part.

To answer your question directly. No bore is completely strait through a barrel. It actually bows, or spirals. The smith may recut the chamber so that the lands and throat are straight with the axis of the chamber shoulder then cut the heal of the barrel to line up with the face of the action and bolt. Target crown. High quality stainless one piece scope mount and rings. Not aluminum. You give up a little in weight, but gain in reduced flex. A belted magnum head spaces on the belt, and there's a tollarance for factory built rifles. A smith will most likely 'adjust' head space to be a bit more precise.

That's just a small part of it. Your average smith does not do this. You'll be looking for a smith that is also a long range shooter himself. You cannot expect a light rifle/barrel to be as accurate as a heavy target barrel as the light one will change tension throughout it's length as it warms up from shooting. But many of the same tricks used by long range competitors can be incorporated into the build of a light rifle so that it's first 'Cold Barrel Shot' is consistant with it's last cold barrel shot.

-Steve

[haugenna]

AWS,

Out of curiosity, why would I have to sacrifice the weight?

Rob,

What kind of velocity are you getting and what is your load data? Length of barrel?

[haugenna]

I guess my question would be, how does it shoot now? Tikka's are known for being pretty darn accurate.

First thing I start with is a trigger job. Possibly an optic and optic mount upgrade  You'd be surprised at how accurate a rifle can be when the shooter can really do his part.

To answer your question directly. No bore is completely strait through a barrel. It actually bows, or spirals. The smith may recut the chamber so that the lands and throat are straight with the axis of the chamber shoulder then cut the heal of the barrel to line up with the face of the action and bolt. Target crown. High quality stainless one piece scope mount and rings. Not aluminum. You give up a little in weight, but gain in reduced flex. A belted magnum head spaces on the belt, and there's a tollarance for factory built rifles. A smith will most likely 'adjust' head space to be a bit more precise.

That's just a small part of it. Your average smith does not do this. You'll be looking for a smith that is also a long range shooter himself. You cannot expect a light rifle/barrel to be as accurate as a heavy target barrel as the light one will change tension throughout it's length as it warms up from shooting. But many of the same tricks used by long range competitors can be incorporated into the build of a light rifle so that it's first 'Cold Barrel Shot' is consistant with it's last cold barrel shot.

-Steve

It shoots pretty good.  MOA.  I want to cut that in half to 1/2MOA.  I understand the heating up of the barrel and affecting the group and using a heavy target barrel will get me more accuracy.

So the question is, do I throw more money at the current setup and square all of the above up with the factory barrel or throw money at a match barrel along with squaring up the action and all the above? 

How important is the stainless mounts and rings?  I already have the LW Talleys on there

Thanks for the info jack.

[robescc]

My rifle as you see it is 13lbs.  16lbs with the other stock.  A heavier barrel is more stable thus more accurate. I have a Rem 700 Mountain Rifle in .270 with a skinny little barrel that with shoot a 10" group at 200yards

Heavy barrels are more accurate and handle heat longer.
A good quality, higher magnification scope will also add weight.

I am not sure what velocity I am getting.  I change my loads so much I am not sure.  I think its around 2900fps. I have found that 190gr JLK's and Berger 185's and 190 shoot the best from my gun.  Right now I am loading norma brass, cci mag rifle primers with 67.5 grains of H4350 and 190gr JLK's seated on the lands. same load with bergers but a .004 jump.

[robescc]

I don't really agree with the stainless rings but to each his own.  I use seekins precision rings and picatiny rail.  They are spendy but one of the best.

[AWS]

A light weight 300 Mag can be brutal to shoot for the amount that is needed to learn to shoot it at long range.  I used to shoot  Metalic  sihloutetts and just spending alot of time can behind a 308 can be hard.  I built a longrange 300 Win Mag in the late 70's and sold it as soon as I could and it weighed 9+#. 

AWS

[robescc]

Mine has the recoil of a 30-30. I can shoot it all day long. If I could afford more powder.

[haugenna]

A light weight 300 Mag can be brutal to shoot for the amount that is needed to learn to shoot it at long range.  I used to shoot  Metalic  sihloutetts and just spending alot of time can behind a 308 can be hard.  I built a longrange 300 Win Mag in the late 70's and sold it as soon as I could and it weighed 9+#. 

AWS

That's what a good muzzle brake is for.

[robescc]

 

[AWS]

robsec's rifle weighs in at 13# and he has a muzzle break on it, it doesn't even come close to a light weight rifle. Most people consider anything under 8# all up a lightweight.  Mine weighed 9# all up sans a break and modern recoil pad. 

You don't learn to to make long range hits in the field firing 10 rounds a weekend off a leadslead.      Just the difference between a cross wind at your position and a quarterring wind at the otherside of the canyon can mean the difference between a lung shot and a gut shot.  Then you have the 1/4 mile + hike to see if you even hit it.  I've seen a whitetail take a round through the chest and keep right on walking out of sight and die just 20' into cover.  When you can put the first round in a pie plate at what ever range and conditions you decide to take a shot at go for it.  And a light weight rifle makes it just that much tuffer.  When I was younger I was pretty good at it, now I limit my shot to under 300yrds.

AWS

[robescc]

 

This is what makes you a good long range shooter.  Lots of this kind of practice.
These are my shooting buddies who I shoot with.  I am not in this video but its normal practice for us.

Check out his other videos and go to www.shoot-farther.com

[AWS]

I agree that is how you become a long range shooter, lots of practice under all sorts of conditions.  I still think a lightweight 300 mag will beat the heck out of you trying to learn to shoot it.


I missed the post on how accurate your Tikka is, a MOA 300 Mag is a pretty nice rig.  What has been done to the rifle already, how many rounds down the tube and how many different powders and bullets have tried loading  for this rig?



AWS

[Bofire]

I love Tikkas for what they are, I am not sure how they would take to custom work or which Smiths will work on them. For the cost of custom work you could likely buy another rifle.
I would be willing to bet that if you go to a Remington action and add the price of the action in you'll still end up with more rifle for the money, than trying to work on your Tikka, every body works on remingtons!
What have you done to try to squeeze the best out of the Tikka?
Carl

[jjhunter]

I built a consistent 1/2" 300 win mag last year.  It will actually do under a 1/4" at 100 with 190 Bergers, but not consistent enough to claim.  Even with bad shot it is easy to keep under 1/2".  It really shines at LR.  I have only taken this rifle to the 600 yard line, but it has shot sub 1 1/2" groups on several occasions off a quality bench rest front and rear bag.  

This gun is HEAVY at about 14 lbs w/ scope.   Total cost was around $4500.   It takes quality components, a competent smith, and weight to get a .300 to shoot like this.  I am shooting 190 Bergers at 3125.  Nosler custom brass, Federal Gold Medal 215M primers, H4831.  It's heavy to pack around but I wouldn't want to be down-range inside of 750 yards.

[haugenna]

I agree that is how you become a long range shooter, lots of practice under all sorts of conditions.  I still think a lightweight 300 mag will beat the heck out of you trying to learn to shoot it.


I missed the post on how accurate your Tikka is, a MOA 300 Mag is a pretty nice rig.  What has been done to the rifle already, how many rounds down the tube and how many different powders and bullets have tried loading  for this rig?



AWS

I have lightened the trigger and put a muzzle brake on it.  I hand tuned some loads and got it shooting real nice.  Not on a lead sled.  Did some prone shooting off a bipod.

[AWS]

Have fun building your rig, and I hope it turns out to be everything you hope (seriously).  That's what being a gun loony is all about.  I load and hunt with eight different coyote guns and nonr are still in their original condition.

AWS

[WDFW-SUX]

I have a Pac nor and a Kreiger.. they both shoot really well. I cant think of anything negative about either one.  One's a straight up custom and the other was done by Weatherby.  The weatherby is an ultralight in 300 WBY and is the most accurate rifle I own. I did have it re crowned by a different smith when I had a break put on it.  I can key hole shots at 100 yards on a good no coffee day. The other rifle is heaver and shoots good too its a 7 mag. Shop around and find the best smith you can afford.

Here is where one of mine came from.

http://www.weaverrifles.com/

[haugenna]

I love Tikkas for what they are, I am not sure how they would take to custom work or which Smiths will work on them. For the cost of custom work you could likely buy another rifle.
I would be willing to bet that if you go to a Remington action and add the price of the action in you'll still end up with more rifle for the money, than trying to work on your Tikka, every body works on remingtons!
What have you done to try to squeeze the best out of the Tikka?
Carl

I found a smith in Bonney Lake that loves the stiffness of the Tikka action.  I have a few hundred rounds down the tube. 

If I buy another rifle though....I will be right back where I started. 

I did a trigger job, muzzle brake thus far.

[robescc]

I just went back to your original bost and saw it is a light model. I don't think you will ever shoot it accuratly.  My buddy got one of those in a trade and he wanted to make it his high country rifle.  We were at he range one day and he couldn't get a good group to save his life.  I tried to see what I could do with it and after the second shot, I told him he should wrap it around the nearest tree he could find.  The first shot kicked me so hard, my back popped from the top of my neck to my tail bone.  The second shot I flinched so bad I hit about six inches off center.  He tried a few different loads for it but was not very successful.  The bullet had a .75 inch jump before it even hit the lands.  This is not always bad but it does not work with most bullets.
I would tend to agree Bofire about costs. Sticking with a Winchester or Remington(my favorite) ar even a good old mauser action will be cheaper in the long run.  I always look for pawn shop beaters or junk guns at the gun shows.  The most I have paid for a remington 700 action is $200.

[haugenna]

I just went back to your original bost and saw it is a light model. I don't think you will ever shoot it accuratly.  My buddy got one of those in a trade and he wanted to make it his high country rifle.  We were at he range one day and he couldn't get a good group to save his life.  I tried to see what I could do with it and after the second shot, I told him he should wrap it around the nearest tree he could find.  The first shot kicked me so hard, my back popped from the top of my neck to my tail bone.  The second shot I flinched so bad I hit about six inches off center.  He tried a few different loads for it but was not very successful.  The bullet had a .75 inch jump before it even hit the lands.  This is not always bad but it does not work with most bullets.
I would tend to agree Bofire about costs. Sticking with a Winchester or Remington(my favorite) ar even a good old mauser action will be cheaper in the long run.  I always look for pawn shop beaters or junk guns at the gun shows.  The most I have paid for a remington 700 action is $200.

The gun already shoots real well.  I want it to shoot better than it does.  See this thread from the past.  
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,28797.msg336941.html#msg336941

pictures are part way down.  Notice the 200 yard distance.

[bod]

 You people sound like a bunch of morons.

[haugenna]

WDFW  thanks for the link.  I think I have my question answered.

From Weaver's site:

Action Truing:

I am commonly asked, Do I need to true my action? The answer is simply a YES or NO. The majority of factory actions need some work. If you want precision and accuracy out of your rifle, then Yes you need your action trued. If you are satisfied with to inch groups or are only intending to shoot factory ammo thru your new barrel then No you do not need your action trued. How I true an action. I use very precise tooling made by GTR and Manson Tooling. I first ream the bolt raceways of the action. Then I re-cut the receiver threads, square the recoil lugs and front of the receiver. Next I true the bolt to the center line of the firing pin hole. If needed, I will fit a bushing on the front and or back of the bolt to insure the bolt will always be centered in the receiver. Last, I true the recoil lugs and bolt face. This process takes about 8 to 12 hours. Truing an action is a time consuming and very exacting art, thus the expense.

[robescc]

You people sound like a bunch of morons.

And who the hell are you?  I would like to think that as many rounds that I have fired and many hours doing so, I know what I am talking about.  You probably only shoot what, like two times a year?
Way to make an entrance newbie.   

[Bofire]

I am surprised at the trigger job, I think If I were you, I'd look at the stock, bedding etc at this point. Maybe  more scope, if you are going to true the action it might as well be bedded well in a good stock!
Carl

[haugenna]

I am surprised at the trigger job, I think If I were you, I'd look at the stock, bedding etc at this point. Maybe  more scope, if you are going to true the action it might as well be bedded well in a good stock!
Carl

How much of accuracy is determined by the stock?  The gun fits me pretty well the way it is.  I am not too crazy about sinking a bunch more money into a new stock.  Can you restock the gun after the action is trued?

What suprises you about the trigger job out of curiousity? 

I am looking at upgrading to the vx3 4.5-14.  You are right on that.  Might as well have him bed the action as well while he is in there.  Last but not least, true up the action.  I am going to inquire about the custom barrel cost.  Decisions decisions. 

[Bofire]

It is fun tho huh!! I have a bunch of Tikkas they have really good triggers. my opinion. The stock can have a large impact relative to consistency, and your comfort. A new High Quality Barrel can make a big difference.
Carl

[haugenna]

What kind of lighweight stocks are out there for a Tikka? How much does the standard one weigh?