thinking about getting a Diesel. Help!

[jackelope]

Buckmark...
what are you driving that gets 13mpg towing?

[Mike_D]

Glad to hear your looking towards diesel.  From a stock position, I don't think you can go wrong with just about any of the big 3.  Ford using the International  (or at least used to) good solid engine, Dodge (which I have) is using the Cummins, and Chevy's using the Izuzu.

All are great engines, and will pull like that cats meow...  I agree if its dodge, go stick, I cant speak about Chevy as I don't own one.  but I've driven the ford, and its a great vehicle also. In my dodge, I'm getting roughly 19-21 mpg on the highway empty, (I do alot of hauling 12-16K) and get around 14-15 when loaded....and I got the truck new in '01, with currently 265K and it still runs like a top.

All of the engines have quirks and your gonna see lots of brand loyality.  but I honestly don't know anyone who got a diesel and didn't pimp it out to get more pulling power, lift it higher, etc. etc... 

I will say the dodges drive like trucks with stiffer suspension, while the ford, and chevy have the softer rides....

Good luck on your search.

[Buckmark]

In a crewcab i would get a diesel, no questions asked.

[bearpaw]

Not quite sure what you are saying buckmark, but here was my math. In my old Chev 3500 7.4 gas I was getting about 7 mpg with the same load the 7.3 diesel pulls at 16 mpg.

No Load - Gas 7.4 got about 10 mpg. - Diesel 7.3 gets about 20-22 mpg

I drive my truck about 50,000 miles per year.

An average of 9 mpg will take 5556 gallons of gas @ 2.99 = $16,612.00
Average of 19 mpg will take 2632 gallons of diesel @ 3.09 = $8,133.00

That's a fuel savings of $8,500 per year. If the truck will last three years that will pay for a $25,000 used diesel truck.

[Buckmark]

Buckmark...
what are you driving that gets 13mpg towing?

F250 SD, extcab 6ftbox, fiberglass canopy, brushguard, usually towing a 16ft flatdeck with a tractor (small 3500lbs +trailer). 25 gallon gas tank
 I drove from the costco in smokey point to green acres, loaded with a weeks worth of gear, towing my little utility trailer (old toyota trk box with an aluminum canopy on it) and got 14.26mpg (23gallons used, 328 miles)
I drive like a little old lady..

[Buckmark]

Bearpaw i was comparing your current truck at 16 towing and my truck at 13 towing, not a worn out old 454.. where are you getting diesel for 3.09?
Heck i had a 1972 f250 4x4 that did not even get 9mpg.
Fill up in issaquah, drive to cle elum, fill up again, and a 5gallon can, drive up in the teanaway, hunt, add 5 gallons, drive back to cle elum, top off and rive home to issaquah...

[6x6in6]

Buckmark, your points are exactly what I am pondering.  I need a crew, that's a given.  I was thinking diesel because of longevity and decent MPG.  I don't drive my truck a whole lot maybe 3-4 times a month (more during hunting season) and I have a commuter that I use for work so the truck isn't going to rack up a ton of miles over the next five or so years.   So, I think I am headed down the right path.  

And if your anything like me and dump about $7k into an '05 Dodge simply for the purpose of towing in and around the 21k GCW, I did so for performance, some fuel economy but most important engine longevity.
150 gph fuel pump to not starve the injection pump when it's working hard.
Cam shaft to change the injection event which also in turn reduces exhaust gas temps.
Bigger intercooler for more/cooler air.
Bigger intake to get the more/cooler air into the engine.
EDM'd injectors for economy and performance.
A bigger turbo for performance and combustion temp reduction.
All this took me from what was 17 mpg out the door to 19.5 empty.  From 11.5 mpg to almost 15mpg when towing heavy.
It's gonna take a long time, if ever, at +- 3mpg to recoup that cost.  Probably never will.  But the parts I chose to throw at it were the supporting ones to hopefully extend the life of the most expensive part, the engine itself.

[MuleySniper]

8 pages...guaranteed...

Ok ok.... Here is my ultimate dream truck. Ford F-250.... Cummins Diesel... Allison tranny... GMC interior

[JackOfAllTrades]

Two forums to join before you buy.  http://www.thedieselstop.com  and http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums.

I'm sure there's a forum or two for Government Motors trikes and the Dodge stuff.  

My experience.. I almost bought an 04 Dodge, (6x6x6 and Jackelope have some good info there). That said, the Dodge manual transmission didn't get good until 04. Before that, well they're durable, but the ratios and such just weren't what you get today. My half brother has put two automatic tranny's behind his Cummins -and he drives like a grandma and doesn't even tow. . To be honest, none of the three manufactures makes a good auto tranny that lasts behind the torque of a diesel. None of them have figured out how to electronically shift an automatic as well as one can be shifted via vaccume from the engine, depending on load. The years of the 7.3ps Ford were good to most who bought one. Good torque and fuel economy but not what you get today by comparison. The early 6.0psd's from Ford were plagued by fuel injection/emissions, cracked blocks and auto transmission issues. Most all of that was worked out by 04. And any of the early ones still on the road now were probably repaired or not plagued with a particular part that lead to failure. The early 6.0's had terrible EGR valves too. The 6.4Lpsd's have even more power, but sacrifice fuel economy to the late 03, 04, 05's. The Cummins is the only true work horse. But the Dodge truck of the years you're referencing just didn't hold up. Lots of loggers would rattle the dashboards right off and they had terrible electronic issues. I've never been impressed by the Dodge differentials. Many of the big three use some of the same designs of transfercases. The early years of the Dura/Izuzu-Allison weren't good to GM either.  I'm not bashing either of them. Like someone said earlier, each truck be it diesel or not, has it's own list of gremlins and great inovation. The Ford front rotors are small for what is asked of them, but when they warp, there's a couple of great aftermarket ventilated replacements that I've put three times the mileage on than the factory rotors.

All that said, I bought an 04 3/4 ton Ford 6.0L PSD, ZF6spd, extended cab long bed with the 8800gvw, camper/tow/security/FX4 packages in the fall of 04'.  Coming from a lifted 88 4x4 Ford with built 460 that would leave most 7.3's and Cummins of the late 90's in my mirrors even when I was towing, I doubt I will ever go back to a gas engine truck. I love the fuel economy and the power when towing. (OK, it's 4" straight piped! But not chipped.)  I kept my last truck for 9 years. Truck before that for 10. I expect that many years out of this truck and twice the mileage.

There is not more maintenance with a diesel! But, you do need to be more 'religious' about maintaining your diesel if you want it to go 300,000 - 400,000 miles. And.. An oil change will cost more. My PSD takes 15.5 quarts of oil every 5,000 miles and the oil filter (Fleetguard as mentioned in an earlier post) costs twice as much as your gas engined Fram. There's also the lubricity additive that you 'should' toss in the tank more often than most people do. (low sulfur fuels reduce lubricity in that fuel, thus promoting more wear to fuel pumps and injectors) Everything costs more when working on a Diesel. Be sure you can afford that before you buy one. The rest of the truck is the same though.  I am a big proponant of the ZF6spd transmission with a granny 1st gear and overdrive. When my clutch goes out.. I'll put the F450 clutch kit in. -That said, this transmission is used in panel trucks with both diesel and gas power plants in chassis up to 24,000gvw. That should say something about the durability of that unit. GM, Dodge and Ford have all used a version of this transmission over the years. I'm not aware of any of the big three manufactures that push thier light duty truck automatics to trucks with that high gvw. The allison might have a slightly higher gvw/torque rating since they use the same in the military hummers. Read around though.. That's not the cat's meow for transmissions. The later model Ford auto has the Tow/Haul mode that incorporates a trans brake when towing. Nice. I like the Sterling differentials that Ford is using. Much like the older heavy duty Dana/Spicer units. Big bearing surfaces.

For the years you referenced,  Three things that I don't know that many will disagree with..  (I can't quite leave the powerplant out of this...)

If you want a truck that drives/rides like a car and has the interior that is well thought out ergonomically, then buy the GM.

In most cases the Dodge is cheaper. And it shows in creature comforts/interior/road noise/differential/transmission design. (Remember, Cummins is owned by Ford/International)

If you want a truck that rides a bit more rough, but has the suspension to handle the load with ease, but doesn't have the interior refinement of the GM, then the Ford is for you.

(I'm sure I'll get a few Lariett and Larmie owners that will disagree with the interior comments. I have a standard cloth interior, prefering to spend my money on those things that make it a truck rather than a cadilac...)

- To remark about Buckmark's last post.. I towed my then 25' camp trailer from Lynden, Wa. to Post Falls Id. on much less than one tank of fuel. I-5 and Highway2/90. 15.2mpg over the pass and the rolling hills of the east side with a quartering side wind.  I get about the same fuel economy with my 29' camp trailer if I can draft behind a semi once in a while. Without the weight/windload, my truck averages 17.6mpg on winter diesel and 18.4 during the summer. Best mpg on the freeway running from Lynden to Tacoma has been 21.3mpg. (more than once)

- Now now there Bearpaw.. two years ago in Colville, Diesel was damn close to $4.00 a gallon!

edit- MuleySniper said the same about the GM interior before I had my post all typed out!
-Steve

[jackelope]

Buckmark...
what are you driving that gets 13mpg towing?

F250 SD, extcab 6ftbox, fiberglass canopy, brushguard, usually towing a 16ft flatdeck with a tractor (small 3500lbs +trailer). 25 gallon gas tank
 I drove from the costco in smokey point to green acres, loaded with a weeks worth of gear, towing my little utility trailer (old toyota trk box with an aluminum canopy on it) and got 14.26mpg (23gallons used, 328 miles)
I drive like a little old lady..

Wow...good for you. I get 13.5 in my 1/2 ton chev without a trailer...

[jackelope]

Steve-
www.fullsizechevy.com

[skipper]

Bearpaw i was comparing your current truck at 16 towing and my truck at 13 towing, not a worn out old 454.. where are you getting diesel for 3.09?
Heck i had a 1972 f250 4x4 that did not even get 9mpg.
Fill up in issaquah, drive to cle elum, fill up again, and a 5gallon can, drive up in the teanaway, hunt, add 5 gallons, drive back to cle elum, top off and rive home to issaquah...

in Auburn Deisel is 2.89 a gallon

I would go with the 7.3L I have an 03 with the 7.3L crew cab and love it I would never go back to gas

[JackOfAllTrades]

Steve-
www.fullsizechevy.com

Why would I want to go there?

-Steve

[bearpaw]

buckmark, I should have read closer, since you are buying the beer, I will meet you in Tonasket.

I haven't fueled up this week, but diesel was $3.09 last week in Colville.

In Idaho/MT/UT diesel was about $2.70 and gas about $2.60 most of the winter. Not sure what will happen with fuel prices, but as long as there is no more than a .50 difference between gas and diesel it looks like a big money saver to me.

The biggest thing I do not like is the noise, I will have to go sneaking around the farms in my Suburban...

JackOfAllTrades, that is some good info, thanks.

[Shootmoore]

Steve-
www.fullsizechevy.com

Why would I want to go there?

-Steve

Well we would not have to set up the cones and direct traffic every time you want to turn around at the 101 hole   

Shootmoore