PLease Forward this Letter!!! In regards to 346,352 and 356 Changes

[colockumelk]

I wrote this letter in regards to the closing of GMU's 352 (Nile) and GMU 356 (Bumping) to antlerless hunting and the opening of GMU 346 (Little Naches) to an early archery general season.  Please take the time to read the letter and then fill in your name at the bottom and send it to these two emails.  Last year proposals were changed because people like us spoke to the WDFW and if enough people plead their case then they ACTUALLY do make changes.  

Directors Office  director@dfw.wa.gov

Mr. Tayer Region 3 Director  TeamYakima@dfw.wa.gov

Dear Mr. Tayer,

This letter is in response to the new proposals for GMU’s 352, 356 and 346.  As you know in the proposals for the archery season in GMU’s 352 and 356 (Nile and Bumping) antlerless elk will no longer be legal to harvest.  In order to handle the large amount of hunters that will inevitably go elsewhere because of this new rule, GMU 346 (Little Naches) is now open to the archery general season.  These are the first two things that we would like to talk about.  

  Let’s first talk about the closure of the Goose Prairie to antlerless harvest to archers.  We also notice that the amount of antlerless permits issued to both Muzzle Loaders and Modern Rifleman has also decreased from last year.  This is the second year in a row that the amount of antlerless permits has decreased.  Our question is why is this?  Is it because in your aerial surveys there has been a marked decrease in the cow elk population?  If so then we completely understand and agree with what you are doing.  However consider this.  If it is based on your surveys then think about this.  The 2008-2009 was milder that normal so not as many elk as normal would be down in the winter range.  Furthermore this current winter of 2009-2010 is the mildest winter we have had in ten years so there are even fewer elk in the winter range.  Myself and many friends and acquaintances frequent all elevations in the mountains.  We all agree on one thing.  There are far more elk in the 5,000 foot and higher range than any year we can remember.  So if the aerial surveys are your only consideration we would urge you to think outside the box and consider why the numbers would be so low.  Maybe take into consideration the harvest reports more than usual.  Which if you look at the harvest report data at the top of the page you will notice we had by far the least amount of cow elk harvested in the last four years.

To end the first topic we urge you to reconsider the closure of these GMU’s to antlerless hunting.   If there is a dire need to shut down antlerless hunting to the archery hunters and dropping for the second year in a row the amount of antlerless permits given out to muzzle loaders and rifles, then we will fully support you.  But please take into consideration before making any drastic changes how mild the past couple of winters have been and the lower than average harvest rates in the past couple of years.  Also maybe instead of closing down both GMU’s to antlerless hunting try closing only one GMU down and then see if that did enough to help out.  We have all seen what happens when things become more restrictive and when we have fewer opportunities.  We NEVER get them back.  

The second topic we would like to talk about is the opening of GMU 346 to the early archery general season.  We believe and many other fellow archers believe that this will be a HUGE mistake.  We understand why you are doing this.  You are doing this to more evenly distribute the amount of hunters that will definitely go elsewhere if the fore mentioned restrictive rule takes place.  This is completely understandable; however, this is why we disagree with the opening of this GMU to the general season.  GMU 346 is the only GMU that does not offer a general season archery hunt and a general season muzzle loader hunt.  This is what makes this GMU so good.  It is the only place that you can draw a branch bull permit with a bow or a muzzle loader and not have to fight “the crowds” of general season hunters.   In short the “Peaches Ridge” tag for archery and muzzle loader and the “Little Naches” rut permit for the rifle are arguably the best tags to draw in the Yakima PMU’s.  What made this hunt the best tag to draw is because the only hunters in that GMU were ones with a special permit.  If GMU 346 is opened to the early season general archery season this will not be the case.  It will be just another permit.  

Why can’t the WDFW leave open one GMU that the only people that can hunt it are special permit holders?  Why can’t there be one Quality Hunt in the Yakima PMU’s?  I understand one GMU has to open for the archery guys to compensate for hunters leaving the Goose Prairie GMU’s.  But why can’t you open up GMU 360 (Bethel) or GMU 342 (Umtanum) Or GMU 368 (Cowiche) instead?  This way the Little Naches GMU would remain a quality permit only GMU to hunt keeping all three user groups happy.  If archers were allowed into GMU 360 or GMU 342 or GMU 368 during a general season (where they are not currently allowed) no one is going to complain.  After all these two GMU’s are not considered quality hunts like the Little Naches is.  

In closing what we would like to see is that instead of closing both of the Goose Prairie GMU’s to antlerless hunting for archers, instead try closing only one of those GMU’s to antlerless hunting and see if that solves the problem of a low cow elk population.  And instead of opening GMU 346 (Little Naches) to the archery general season please keep this GMU closed and instead open GMU 360 (Bethel) or GMU 342 (Umtanum) or GMU 368 (Cowiche) to a general season archery hunt, to help curb the displacement of hunters leaving the Goose Prairie GMU closing of antlerless hunting.  

Gentleman thank-you for your time in reading this letter and we hope that you think about what we have said and take it into serious consideration.  We support you in your decisions and goals but we obviously disagree slightly in how to go about this.  

Respectfully Members from www.hunting-washington.com

[bobcat]

Good letter, very well written, and considerate instead of insulting to the WDFW. So they're more likely to actually pay attention to what you are saying.

My personal opinion is they should eliminate all general season elk hunts, at least in the Yakima units. Then we'd have several quality units, instead of only the Little Naches. A guy might only be able to hunt every other year, but who wants to hunt a spike only general season anyway

[Rick]

Done

[colockumelk]

Couldn't agree with you more bobcat.  I think we both see eye to eye on that point.  However the WDFW would never do it.  They'd lose way too much money. 

[colockumelk]

Again please take the few minutes to email my letter off to the WDFW.  Even if you not an archery hunter this will still impact the Muzzle Loader and Rifle Rut hunts in the Little Naches.  Please don't let the WDFW ruin one of the best elk hunts in the state. 

[WACATHUNTER]

Great letter, THanks!  Forwarded as of 2/24
WACAT

[DoubleJ]

Done

[Turkeyman]

DONE

[colockumelk]

Thankyou gentleman for taking the time to send out that letter.  If we stand by and do nothing eventually we wont have any hunting left. 

[brianmtsinc]

Done.  Thanks for taking time to write the letter.

I have been hunting these areas for more than 18 years and I believe there are MORE elk now than anytime in the past.  I get into elk just about every day of my hunt and so do the 6+ guys I hunt with.  We also have been waiting YEARS for the Peaches draw, which could now get totally screwed up

IMHO this is all about money.  I wish they would just leave the areas alone, leave the draw system alone, and if they "need" more money, charge me more - but don't mess up the one thing I spend all year looking forward too!   

[colockumelk]

Your welcome brian.  I don't want to lose anything either which is why I wrote the letter.

To be honest in regards to the WDFW.  I don't think they put much thought into this.  I think they saw a decrease in cow numbers in Goose Prairie.  THey cut cow tags and the archery antlerless hunts because most cows are harvested by the archers.  This solved problem #1.  Then to fix problem #2 they glanced on the map and opened the closest GMU closed to archers.  Bam solved problem #2.   Probably took about .2 seconds of thought.  If we send enough letters like the one I wrote then they WILL change it.

[Rick]

Here is their email response -



Thank you for contacting the Wildlife Program regarding the upcoming big game hunting season proposals.  Your comments are appreciated and have been forwarded to the appropriate staff for consideration.


Thank you,


Wildlife Program Olympia

[colockumelk]

Yeah they always send that one back.  In their defense they probably do have limited time and I'm sure they receive about a million emails a day so it's hard for them to respond to every single one.  But I have received emails back from them before.  If you sent it to Jeff Tayer alot of times he'll respond back.  He's the one we have to convince anyways. 

[johnsc6]

Not bad......But we have to remember, these are the same managers that purposely decreased the elk poulation by 35% by giving out more cow tags, now they seem to be reversing past decisions.  It is always the same you, The game needs tobe managed Proactively not reactively when they get that things might get better

[Rick]

Here is a reply from Jeff Tayer. Hopefully they'll come through with the phone call.


Thank you for your e mail regarding GMU 346. 

I would like our Regional Wildlife Biologist Ted Clausing  to respond to your concerns.

We triangulate a number of data points to assess whether the population is stable or trending up or down.

Ted can provide more detail and we can have a phone conversation as well.   

[colockumelk]

Not bad......But we have to remember, these are the same managers that purposely decreased the elk poulation by 35% by giving out more cow tags, now they seem to be reversing past decisions.  It is always the same you, The game needs tobe managed Proactively not reactively when they get that things might get better

Where did you hear our herd got reduced by 35%.  Do you have any links to back this up?  I've done alot of research and kept my finger on the pulse of the herd and looked at all the reports and numbers for the past ten years and have not seen a reduction in 35%.  If you talk to most people that get out alot they'll all tell you that there are more elk out there right now then ever before.

Rick WTF? That is so awsome that you got a response.  I'm excited for you.  As for me I still havn't heard jack from them.  Did you write them another letter.  If so forward it to me and I'll send it up as well.  Anyways could you pass something on to them if they do in fact call you???


Just let them know that no matter what if they close one GMU down and open up another they will upset someone.  But if the GMU they open up is GMU 346 they will piss off far more people than if they were to open up GMU 368, 360 or 342. We are upset because GMU 346 is considered a golden unit because during the rut there isn't any general season allowed.  If they open this GMU up to general season tag holders during the rut it will once again prove that they do not care about what hunters think or want and only care about one thing, MONEY!!! Thanks Rick.  Go get em!!!

[Rick]

Rick WTF? That is so awsome that you got a response.  I'm excited for you.  As for me I still havn't heard jack from them.  Did you write them another letter.  If so forward it to me and I'll send it up as well.  Anyways could you pass something on to them if they do in fact call you???

The only thing I sent was the letter you originally wrote,with the only change being that I added my name on the bottom as opposed the link to this site.

I'd love to talk to them,hopefully they'll come through. I'll give them a day or two before I call and start harrasing them.

[colockumelk]

That's awsome Rick.  Give em hell.  Maybe they're sick of hearing from me.  I did talk extensively to Jeff Tayer last year about the Colockum so maybe he's avoiding me like the plague.  I am about to commence operation 10 of the same emails a day if he doesn't responde though.  Go get em Rick 

[ribka]

Forwarded letter. Thanks for doing this

[brianb231]

I sent in mine as well and also referenced your letter Colockumelk.


It can't hurt. Everyone should take minute and send something in.

Regards,


Brian

[luvtohnt]

What they are doing makes sense to me. If they are over their objective on numbers in a given area they open it to bring the numbers down. They have to think like the elk, if they move into 346 during the hunting season due to lack of pressure then open it up. There is no reason to let the elk get habituated to running to a quasi reserve so the tag holders can have the upper hand. If the archery harvest stats are not were they need to be for the given region there needs to be changes to keep the archery harvest at it's goal. I boils down to those who want or have the golden tags for the area being selfish and not wanting to compete with the general season guys. It has way more to do with herd management then revenue, and honestly if you have a tag during the rut you already have the upper hand!!

Brandon

[colockumelk]

LIke I said the WDFW probably put about 2 seconds of thought into.  As far as if there are "too many" elk in GMU 346 then give out more tags.  The point is, is that this THE ONLY GMU that if you draw a rut permit for archer/muzzle/rifle you don't have to worry about a general season ruining your hunt or fighting the hordes or every retard with a call.  All I want and all alot of people want is 1 quality hunt.  Just one.  And if they add a general season there then it wont be a quality hunt anymore.  What is wrong with a GMU that is a quality unit, one that is permit only? Most other states have them.  We don't.  THen again the WDFW doesnt manage for quality it manages for $$$$$$$$$

[luvtohnt]

I think you may have missed my point. If the elk numbers are high, and this is due to the elk traveling into a permit only unit then what other option is there to bring numbers down. You can't fence the elk out. How many of the areas around 346 is WDFW closing? On the other hand maybe the harvest rates for tag holders were too high so they neede more pressure to scatter the elk. I am sure that there was more than 2 seconds of thought put into this. There is absolutly nothing wrong with a permit only unit, it probably is a good thing for people who want a quality hunt. But again if the numbers don't add up then they have to do something. Maybe they should make an area adjacent to 346 permit only and switch every other year or something so the elk can not get habituated to the same routine. 

Brandon

[colockumelk]

I think you missed my point.  If the numbers are TOO high then raise the amount of permits.  GMU 342 is adjacent to it and does not have an archery general season.  However there are only some locals there and most elk don't go there until the winter hits. 

There ARE a bunch of elk there because during the rut it's permit only.  Thats why people like it.  Elk get pushed there from GMU 336, and 340 because those two places do have a general season unit.  Again this is why it's such a popular permit to draw and why the hunting is so good.  If you allow a general season rut hunt it WILL RUIN this quality hunt.  There is one true quality rut hunt.  And that's in GMU 346.  If the WDFW continues with their proposal this quality hunt will be gone.  Then we wont have any.  Again why change it if its not broke.

[colockumelk]

Rick did they call you yet.  If not they are cowards.

[stickthrower]

 Iv read thru this post and i understand what your saying BUT I think the upper western end of 346 should be open for an early hunt. Im talking about the hike in only end of the GMU. There are those of us that would love to pack in and hunt in a roadless area. Get a goat tag and more better!!!  Lets face it you need to get 40 yards or so to get a good shot off. ALMOST imposable in 336-340 with all the quads and bird hunters spooking the elk..
 
  I think that if i guy is willing to hump into an area like 346 and hunt for a week he should be able to. THAT GMU SHOULD NOT BE FOR OUTFITTERS ONLY.

 jcl
     

[dreamingbig]

I have had my head in the sand for the past 5 weeks with the birth of my daughter but I am getting up to speed.

The proposal to close 352 and 356 to anterless harvest for archery hunters while keeping 40 cow permits between modern firearm and muzzleloader for the same unit is an absolute joke.  This is not about herd management; it is a redistribution of harvest opportunities from archery hunters to other user groups for additional revenue gain.  You can try to hide it beneathe other reasons but it is about money, pure and simple.

I have hunted 356 for the past 7 years (each year without a bull tag in hand).  From personal experience, I can tell you that the population is very healthy.  I have been fortunate enough in those 7 years to harvest 2 cows and 1 spike all with my bow.  Apparently myself and others have been too successful and now they want to limit us to spike only.  This is an outrage.  Bowhunters now have only 123 opportunities to take a branch antlered bull while modern firearm has 105 when you combine bull permits and cow permits on top of the spike only season.  Anyone else shocked by this proposal???

I will be writing a letter and sending it off but I am sure it will fall on deaf ears.  We can't go down without a fight.

[colockumelk]

First off congratulations to your new daughter.      Also please take the time to also send off my email to the two listed email addresses listed above.  But also go ahead and write your own and explain what you see and how the herd has not gone down lately.  Thanks for your support.

Dreamingbig what you fail to understand is that there ARE fewer elk.  Just look at the feeding station there's way less elk than in previous years.  And I'm Sure that none of that has anything to do with our mild weather.    (In case anyone was wondering this above paragraph is said in 100% sarcasm.)

[dreamingbig]

Thanks Clockum; parenthood is fantastic.

As to the feeding stations... exactly!  Making these decisions prior to publishing 2009 harvest data is also absurd.  Anyone can stick their finger in the air and come up with a guess.  This decision smells very very fishy.

I have a ton of anecdotal experience walking many square miles of this unit and let me just say that there are still a ton of elk in GMU 356.  I would be happy to show the biologist around this summer.

[hughjorgan]

Not bad......But we have to remember, these are the same managers that purposely decreased the elk poulation by 35% by giving out more cow tags, now they seem to be reversing past decisions.  It is always the same you, The game needs tobe managed Proactively not reactively when they get that things might get better

Where did you hear our herd got reduced by 35%.  Do you have any links to back this up?  I've done alot of research and kept my finger on the pulse of the herd and looked at all the reports and numbers for the past ten years and have not seen a reduction in 35%.  If you talk to most people that get out alot they'll all tell you that there are more elk out there right now then ever before.

Rick WTF? That is so awsome that you got a response.  I'm excited for you.  As for me I still havn't heard jack from them.  Did you write them another letter.  If so forward it to me and I'll send it up as well.  Anyways could you pass something on to them if they do in fact call you???


Just let them know that no matter what if they close one GMU down and open up another they will upset someone.  But if the GMU they open up is GMU 346 they will piss off far more people than if they were to open up GMU 368, 360 or 342. We are upset because GMU 346 is considered a golden unit because during the rut there isn't any general season allowed.  If they open this GMU up to general season tag holders during the rut it will once again prove that they do not care about what hunters think or want and only care about one thing, MONEY!!! Thanks Rick.  Go get em!!!

You don't remember them reducing the yakima herd from 12000 elk to 9000? That is your 35% decrease right there. Now they are supposedly trying to maintain their objective of 9000 animals....

[colockumelk]

I have a ton of anecdotal experience walking many square miles of this unit and let me just say that there are still a ton of elk in GMU 356.  I would be happy to show the biologist around this summer.

I'm sure they'd take you up on that as long as it didn't involve leaving the truck.

[colockumelk]

 

Just a reminder if you want to keep this unit permit only.  PLease send this letter or one that you typed yourself. 

[Rick]

So much for any phone calls I was supposed to be involved in. Here is part of the email response I received from Ted Clausing a few minutes ago.

Dear Mr. Pxxxxxxxx

I’ve attached a summary of the information we used to develop the current recommendations for the Yakima elk seasons.  As you can see, the data indicate a trend and it’s more than the current light winter conditions, though we realize that annual variations are normal.  You will also notice that the proposals were developed with assistance from 3 archery clubs in and around Yakima and the Big Game Advisory Council.  The Fish and Wildlife Commission will be taking public input on the season recommendations tomorrow in Olympia.


 I hope this helps answer your questions.  Thanks for your message.

[colockumelk]

I just got an email back with the whole recommendation thing and how they got it.  I started a new thread.  As an avid archer I'm ashamed at what those three archery clubs did.  Just another example of how the WDFW has us by the shorthairs and everyone instead of standing together is scrambling for scraps leftover. 

[3dvapor]

looks like your letter must also be addresed to these clubs.  if they have that much influence we can start with them.  optomistic thought anyway

[elkbuster]

Sent