Lake Chelan Wolves

[Special T]

BP "There are 60,000 of these wolves in North America, they are no more endangered than democrats in Washington or republicans in Utah." there is no arguing with a statement like that! Tell us how you really feel!

[MichaelJ]

Wolfbait, where are you getting you're 6 confirmed wolf packs in WA in 1992???

Michael

[Shootmoore]

Wolfbait, where are you getting you're 6 confirmed wolf packs in WA in 1992???

Michael

I'm not sure how many confirmed packs there were, although I do remember hearing the number 6 before. This National Parks Service Report lists at least 3.

"Are gray wolves reproducing in the North Cascades?

In 1990, adults with pups were seen in the Hozomeen area. This was the first known reproduction of wild wolves in Washington State in at least 50 years! Since 1990, biologists have seen three separate groups of adult wolves with pups in the Cascades. Wolves mate in February or March. About 63 days later a litter averaging six pups is born."

http://www.nps.gov/noca/naturescience/wolves2.htm

Shootmoore

[boneaddict]

THen you have the wolves that kill for fun....government numbers don't take this into account.  The one I encountered knocked down over a 100 deer in less than a week.  That blows the 44 a year out of the park. 

[bearpaw]

To elaborate further with facts, hunters currently harvest an average of 8,000 elk and 38,000 deer in all areas of Washington (see page 78, page 83, of the Washiongton Draft wolf plan).

When 471 wolves are eating elk and 864 wolves are eating deer, there can be 0 human harvest or herds will decline. Throw another 250 wolves (governnment reproduction numbers of roughly 20% to 24% annual reproduction) on the landscape in the next spring and game herds decline anyway.

Now this is why I make so much noise about wolves.....

From studies done in the other states, where these wolves have plenty to eat they are increasing 50%. In 08 Mech said there were estimations of 3000, so the next year the number would double. Washington had 6 confirmed wolf packs in 1992, and up to 200 wolf sightings.

For ease of verification I used the figures out of Washington's own Draft wolf plan and Idaho's published figures. But I hear you wolfbait, in a new landscape with fewer rival wolf packs, it would not surprise me to see 100% population growth.

[Skyvalhunter]

This is what will eventially happen here if the wolf population is allowed to flourish.
Elk Down 57% in Idaho's Lolo Elk Zone; Wolf Impact Cited

Posted:

Recently completed aerial surveys show a marked decline in elk numbers in game management units 10 and 12, which comprise the Lolo Elk Management Zone. "This survey, combined with ongoing research showing wolves are the primary cause of elk mortality today, is further scientific evidence of the impact wolves are having," Fish and Game Director Cal Groen said.

[wolfbait]

Wolfbait, where are you getting you're 6 confirmed wolf packs in WA in 1992???

Michael

Gray Wolves' Return Subject Of Monday Meeting
Times Staff

Wolf-watchers, take note: The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service will take public comments and answer questions about reintroduction of the gray wolf to Yellowstone National Park and central Idaho at a Seattle meeting Monday.

It's the first step in developing an environmental impact statement for reintroduction to those areas, said Doug Zimmer, Fish & Wildlife spokesman. The EIS will guide federal officials in determining whether the wolf should be reintroduced in those areas, and how it should be managed if it is.

Why should Seattleites care? Aside from being a controversial topic expected to draw comments from friends and foes of the wolf nationwide, the Yellowstone EIS could serve as a model for a plan to manage wolves that are rehabitating Washington state.

State wildlife agents already have identified six packs of wolves in Washington's Cascades, and more are expected to migrate from Canada to the state's protected forests.

Monday's meeting, from 5 p.m. to 8 p.m. at Shorline Community College's Lecture Hall 1605, is an open house. Biologists will be on hand to show a videotape of wolves in the U.S. and answer questions from the public.

Formal public hearings will take place in May 1993. The Yellowstone wolf EIS will be released in 1994, along with a federal

decision.

Copyright (c) 1992 Seattle Times Company, All Rights Reserved.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com:80/archive/?date=19920417&slug=1486887

[wolfbait]

Wolves Coming Back To Cascades
By Patty Wren

Wenatchee World

TWISP, Okanogan County - We may not be dancing with wolves, but they're here, their numbers are growing and it is possible to coexist with them in relative peace.

That's the message a Montana wolf specialist and wildlife advocates are trying to get out. .

At a meeting here on grizzly bears in the North Cascades, about 140 residents seemed intrigued.

Particularly when Pat Tucker, a biologist with the National Wildlife Federation, led a full-grown wolf past the audience, sat with her back to it and allowed it to upstage her by chewing loudly on an empty plastic soda bottle.

The presentation was the Okanogan National Forest's way of telling residents that the gray wolf, once slaughtered by the tens of thousands, has been making a quiet comeback in Washington.

In the Okanogan, one or more wolves have been spotted in five separate areas since 1989.

The plan is to let the wolves - moving into old haunts south of Canada after hunting stopped there in the 1970s - reproduce themselves, said Jon Almak, a state Department of Wildlife biologist.

The crowd responded with an audible sigh of relief, then applause and cheers.

Biologists are trying to write a wolf-recovery plan for Washington.

Originally planned as part of a recovery program for the northern Rockies, where wolves were brought in, the effort could become unique to Washington because of the apparently burgeoning population.

For example, 100 sightings were reported in 1981, and last year there were 200, ranging as far south as Mount St. Helens, Almak said.

Federal agencies have spent $3.3 million on wolf research in the Rockies since 1987.

Efforts in Washington, such as howling to find members of the endangered species, began two years ago.

Almak, chairman of a biological research subcommittee, said guidelines are being written to ensure that management, habitat and prey-base goals are met and hunters and the general public are educated.

Enter Tucker, whose appearance at the general meeting and at three schools also was sponsored by the Methow Valley Citizens Council.

Through a slide show depicting wolves at play, over bloody carcasses, howling in chorus and standing watchfully, Tucker spoke of her love and respect for the charismatic animals.

She began with a tape recording of a lone wolf howling, telling people in the audience to imagine themselves - as she'd been when she taped it - alone in the wilderness at nightfall.

Suddenly a stereo-like chorus of howls erupted. You could almost see the hairs raise on the backs of 140 necks.

Tucker grinned at the reaction. "I enjoy being out there with other animals that are my equals," she said. "It's not that I want to sell wolves to everyone, but that you will go away from this program with at least respect for them."

Wolves feed on large game animals, pose somewhat of a threat to cattle, run in family packs of about eight, breed annually, can travel 500 miles and need about 200 square miles per pack to thrive, Tucker said.

"They don't eat humans," she said. "We have documentation of bears - even white-tailed deer - killing people, and that's more common than wolves killing people."

The predators are equally preyed on by the pitfalls of life in the wild. "It's an old wolf that's 8 years old," Tucker said.

"Those of us who want wolves back have got to realize the emotional trauma" to cattlemen of coming upon a bloody calf, she said.

"But most ranchers are never going to have to deal with it.

"Some believe they eat cattle. Some believe they eat only sick, weak mice," Tucker said. "The two sides will never agree. . . .

Ranchers in British Columbia and Alberta have had some problems with predation, but the losses are not significant to the industry, she said, adding that knapweed poses a worse problem.

If prey habitat can be protected, human attitudes changed and wolves freed from human persecution, she said, "We shouldn't have to put a lot of restrictions on human activities."

Copyright (c) 1992 Seattle Times Company, All Rights Reserved.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19921206&slug=1528536

[WAcoyotehunter]

that's poor reporting.  any "packs" then were not documented or known.  The WDFW is pretty much handcuffed by the process and documentation is a challenge.  There were not six documented packs. 

[Special T]

I suppose we need to debate what the definition of "is" is.... Do we need to get into the same kind of argument that Bill Clintion  had when he said he did not lie about sleeping with Monica Lewinsky? His definition of "Sex" was a little different than most people.  So now the state,WDFW, USFS or someone else has changed the definition of "Confermed" wolf packs?  I think that is the same thing the state did when certain schools couldn't hit the marks for math and English testing for the WASSL.

[wolfbait]

that's poor reporting.  any "packs" then were not documented or known.  The WDFW is pretty much handcuffed by the process and documentation is a challenge.  There were not six documented packs.  

aw pelosi, what a crock, So wacoyote all of the wolf sightings back in the 1980's and 90's when fitkin and defenders of pelosi were pushing wolves in Washington were lies? is that what you are saying? You crack me up. Remember the old saying "you can pelosi the fans but not the players". WDFW say the wolves only kill the old and the week also. I think before you start screaming foul on news reporting you should do a tad bit more research. Pushing for Defenders of wildlife's wolves could turn you into a lier.

[wolfbait]

I suppose we need to debate what the definition of "is" is.... Do we need to get into the same kind of argument that Bill Clintion  had when he said he did not lie about sleeping with Monica Lewinsky? His definition of "Sex" was a little different than most people.   So now the state,WDFW, USFS or someone else has changed the definition of "Confermed" wolf packs?  I think that is the same thing the state did when certain schools couldn't hit the marks for math and English testing for the WASSL.

You nailed it Special T, Now in order to have any real packs they must first be DNA tested, pelosi. Just like in order for a wolf attack to be considered an attack the bugger has to be eating on you,. when I see these big old wolves my first thought is are they bullet proof, and most of them are, I think they grunt a little when hit but then they just run away.

If WDFW does not step up to the plate and start managing all game, we will not have any. I strongly recommend if you have the chance, give the wolves the Wyoming treat.

[mulehunter]

I suppose we need to debate what the definition of "is" is.... Do we need to get into the same kind of argument that Bill Clintion  had when he said he did not lie about sleeping with Monica Lewinsky? His definition of "Sex" was a little different than most people.  So now the state,WDFW, USFS or someone else has changed the definition of "Confermed" wolf packs?  I think that is the same thing the state did when certain schools couldn't hit the marks for math and English testing for the WASSL.

AMEN!


Mulehunter 

[WAcoyotehunter]

OK...let me explain this again...as it has come up before.  The wolf packs were never seen, found, located,.... or confirmed.  The reporter made a mistake.  If I remember right, there was some statement by a bio that we could recover to six packs in the cascades, the reporter took the liberty of adding that twist, and it sold papers...and continues to draw attention. 
I am not calling the reports of wolf sightings false at all.  Many of them were likely wolves.  I also think lots of folks see what they want to see.  There have been a few reports of a BIG black wolf over here...clustered in a small area around a farm with a black german shepard...people that should know better have reported this dog.  So, it is possible that some of the reporting parties are incorrect. 

I'm not pushing for wolves, but I am pushing for accurate information.  That reporting is a joke.  BTW wolfbait- we are anxiously awaiting your big release of evidence that the state has released wolves.  Where is this white van picture?

[boneaddict]

I Douglas Duane Kikendall, have confirmed  7 packs.  There is a pack in Leclerc Creek in Pend Oreille county.   Has been for years. Seriously glad they pulled their head out and decided there were wolves there.    There is a pack on lookout Mtn.  Has been for years, originally based out of Libby Creek.  There is a pack in Wolf Creek known as the Gardner pack.  It fluctuates or terrorizes Bridge creek, all the way down to Patterson and Frost.  There is a pack on the Sandpoil, south of Republic.  There is a splinter pack on the Columbia by Inchelium.    There is a pack in the blues.  That ones funny because they are supposedly radiocollared and have been tracking them but still yet to be confirmed.   I am trying to figure out what pack is in the Twisp River.  It has different animals in it than the lookout pack, so I am trying to figure out if its a third pack in the valley or a combo of the border of the lookout and Gardner pack. I have seen pups/mom and dad in the old days, in that ridge system, but doubt they are the same animals. There is a pack now in the Nile.  There are wolves in the Teanaway/Manastash, there are wolves by Grand Coulee dam and in Lincoln county.  I haven't confirmed whether you'd want to claim as a  pack or not.  I would assume Entiat falls into this category.  I don't stomp around much in SW washington, so who knows whats that direction.   What else would you guys like to know?  Sorry, I haven't used any trail cams to substantiate any of this. LOL