Police ticket man who wore gun in store

[WonkyWapiti]

Sadly, most officers are trained only on how to collect revenue from motorists. They need to train them on a citizens rights.

Perhaps a document called 'the constitution' would be a good start.

Ok, i have to chime in on my two thoughts here.  This above statement is just ignorant.  I agree that the officers involved in this situation probably made a mistake.  I won't say definitely as I wasn't there and did not witness what this guy was doing.  I also fully agree with someone's right to open carry.  However, I also think there are definitely times when openly carrying is not a wise choice.  There are plenty of people out there who want to do away with our gun rights.  There are also plenty of people out there that couldn't care what happens with our gun rights as they believe it does not affect them.  Then there are those of US who staunchly believe in our rights covered under the 2nd amendment. 

I will often openly carry when I go hunting and hiking.  I don't see alot of upside to our public relations effort by open carrying in highly public places such as Wal Mart, Starbucks, etc as I feel it's often just an attempt to prove a point or poking a stick at a bees nest.  Why push that group of people over that doesn't care about gun rights over the edge to the anti's by shocking or alarming them unnecessarily.   This is my cliff notes version so as to avoid a too lengthy post.

[Wile E. Hunter]

I understand your point, but I believe there's a saying along the lines of rights not exercise will be lost. I think by not utilizing the right, it gives the antis ammunition (so to speak) like the cop that figured that "most reasonable people don't openly carry".

my

[ADAMS]

"However, I also think there are definitely times when openly carrying is not a wise choice."

And the person who has the right to make that choice does not include any member of the Vancouver PD.  This poor guy has to answer for having been cited for a criminal gross misdemeanor.  He had his handgun confiscated.  What if that had been his only handgun and firearm for protection both home and abroad?  Thanks to the Vancouver PD (Let's hope the prosecutor's office has more sense), he has been forced to incur thousands of dollars to defend himself in this case with a criminal conviction, fine and loss of his CPL hanging over his head.  


"Why push that group of people over that doesn't care about gun rights over the edge to the anti's by shocking or alarming them unnecessarily."

First off, this wasn't a situation where he and seven others all converged on the grocery story packing in plain view to make a statement, prove a point or poke a bees nest.  I understand your point but there is also a legitimate counter argument that only through responsibly exercising your right to open carry in run of the mill situations can you encourage an awareness on the part of the public that it is not just legal but OK too.  Bad guys don't open carry. There was a time in our history when it was concealed carry that was what you would worry about.  Why would someone be hiding a deadly weapon?

What the Hell good is the right to open carry if it can't be exercised due to alarm on the part of members of the public who do not understand that it is perfectly legal and that it poses no public safety hazard?  Wile E. Hunter made an excellent point.  The police officer's statement that "A person can be ticketed if his display of a gun alarms people" and "Most responsible people don’t display their firearm in public" is a perfect example of why education is so important.

[Wacenturion]

"However, I also think there are definitely times when openly carrying is not a wise choice."

I don't think the 2nd amendment was intended to politically correct.   I hear where you're coming from, but I tend to agree more with Wiley's statement.  Use it or loose it.  With that said, use it wisely and with respect......but certainly don't shy away from it.  That's almost like saying you can't. 

[Wacenturion]

"However, I also think there are definitely times when openly carrying is not a wise choice."

And the person who has the right to make that choice does not include any member of the Vancouver PD.  This poor guy has to answer for having been arrested for a criminal gross misdemeanor.  He had his handgun confiscated.  What if that had been his only handgun and firearm for protection both home and abroad?  Thanks to the Vancouver PD, he has been forced to incur thousands of dollars to defend himself in this case with a criminal conviction, fine and loss of his CPL hanging over his head.  


"Why push that group of people over that doesn't care about gun rights over the edge to the anti's by shocking or alarming them unnecessarily."

First off, this wasn't a situation where this and seven others all converged on the grocery story packing in plain view to make a statement, prove a point or poke a bees nest.  I understand your point but there is also a legitimate counter argument that only through responsibly exercising your right to open carry in run of the mill situations can you encourage an awareness on the part of the public that it is not just legal but OK too.  Bad guys don't open carry. There was a time in our history when it was concealed carry that was what you would worry about.  Why would someone be hiding a deadly weapon?

What the Hell good is the right to open carry if it can't be exercised due to alarm on the part of members of the public who do not understand that it is perfectly legal and that it poses no public safety hazard?

I completely agree......my comment was the condensed version....lol.

[high country]

Sadly, most officers are trained only on how to collect revenue from motorists. They need to train them on a citizens rights.

Perhaps a document called 'the constitution' would be a good start.

  However, I also think there are definitely times when openly carrying is not a wise choice.  There are plenty of people out there who want to do away with our gun rights.  There are also plenty of people out there that couldn't care what happens with our gun rights as they believe it does not affect them.  Then there are those of US who staunchly believe in our rights covered under the 2nd amendment. 
.

canada is much safer and has nicer amenities in prison, perhaps those who dislike our constitution so much should move north...........I will drive them

[satchel3006]

Alarming fashion

it was a joke

[duckaholic]

"I don't see alot of upside to our public relations effort by open carrying in highly public places such as Wal Mart, Starbucks, etc"  

how do you not see a upside? i mean what the hell is the point to open carry in the woods??? it is like you are scared to show your true colors so you go "hide" in the woods with them or maybe you are afraid of the  "people out there who want to do away with our gun rights" and have no plan on fighting for your rights. . it sounds like you are just throwing in the towel.

[huntnphool]

What we need to do is make it not so uncommon for people to see. The more that do it the more it will be considered normal and maybe lesson the shock.

[duckaholic]

 
see now that would be a plan. unlike going for a hike in the woods.

[Wile E. Hunter]

What we need to do is make it not so uncommon for people to see. The more that do it the more it will be considered normal and maybe lesson the shock.

Exactly.

[yorketransport]

I don't know that more people practicing open carry is really going to help much. If I'm not working, I have a weapon on. I'd be packing even then if it weren't a specifically stated in my work contract that I cannot. But I don't carry openly. I'm not overly concerned about my gun being noticed, but I make an effort not to flash it around. It's not that I'm ashamed or trying to hide the gun, it's simply as a courtesy to others. Not everyone loves guns. I'm fine with that. Many people don't approve of guns. While I disagree with their opinion, I'm fine with that as well. I know that some people are just uncomfortable around guns for whatever reason. Why would I want to go and intentionally make a stranger feel uneasy or uncomfortable? You may call it being politically correct, I call it being polite. And I don't know about any of you, but that's something that I require of my children, and a quality that I respect in other adults.

There's nothing wrong with respecting someones views even if you don't agree with them. I disapprove of smoking and drinking. They're proven to be harmful the the user's physical health, and it's pretty much accepted that they also pose a physically and emotional risk to those around the user. But I don't feel need to advertise my beliefs in a way that will cause conflict with others. I'll share my views openly when it's appropriate, and keep them to my self if they won't add anything constructive to the situation. The same goes for politics and religion. I'm an atheist, which often times doesn't go over well in public. I'm not ashamed of who I am, what I am, or what I believe. But I just don't see the need to stir the pot to promote my beliefs. I wouldn't wear a shirt that says "I don't believe, because I don't have to". After all, the Constitution gives me the right to practice whichever religion, or lack of, that I choose. It's just a courtesy.

I support open carry. Period. But I also promote giving a positive image of gun owners by showing a little respect for those who don't share our views. I view it the same as going out hunting, shooting a great trophy deer, then driving home with it strapped to the hood of your truck. For those of us that hunt, it's not a big deal.  But it's not respectful of those who don't hunt.

Andrew

[high country]

I don't know that more people practicing open carry is really going to help much. If I'm not working, I have a weapon on. I'd be packing even then if it weren't a specifically stated in my work contract that I cannot. But I don't carry openly. I'm not overly concerned about my gun being noticed, but I make an effort not to flash it around. It's not that I'm ashamed or trying to hide the gun, it's simply as a courtesy to others. Not everyone loves guns. I'm fine with that. Many people don't approve of guns. While I disagree with their opinion, I'm fine with that as well. I know that some people are just uncomfortable around guns for whatever reason. Why would I want to go and intentionally make a stranger feel uneasy or uncomfortable? You may call it being politically correct, I call it being polite. And I don't know about any of you, but that's something that I require of my children, and a quality that I respect in other adults.

There's nothing wrong with respecting someones views even if you don't agree with them. I disapprove of smoking and drinking. They're proven to be harmful the the user's physical health, and it's pretty much accepted that they also pose a physically and emotional risk to those around the user. But I don't feel need to advertise my beliefs in a way that will cause conflict with others. I'll share my views openly when it's appropriate, and keep them to my self if they won't add anything constructive to the situation. The same goes for politics and religion. I'm an atheist, which often times doesn't go over well in public. I'm not ashamed of who I am, what I am, or what I believe. But I just don't see the need to stir the pot to promote my beliefs. I wouldn't wear a shirt that says "I don't believe, because I don't have to". After all, the Constitution gives me the right to practice whichever religion, or lack of, that I choose. It's just a courtesy.

I support open carry. Period. But I also promote giving a positive image of gun owners by showing a little respect for those who don't share our views. I view it the same as going out hunting, shooting a great trophy deer, then driving home with it strapped to the hood of your truck. For those of us that hunt, it's not a big deal.  But it's not respectful of those who don't hunt.

Andrew

I 100% agree with where you are coming from.......except you are lumpin gun owners as a group. that is the problem. the group should not be gun owners, but instead, americans.....it is everyones right in this great nation

[Special T]

Adams Your are Spot on!
Yorketransport I think your comments are what most people AND most gun owners think.

We should all thank our lucky stars that SOMEONE has the Stones to test the law... Laws can be overturned from time to time if there isn't a paper trail that shows continual upholding of the law... If we NEVER exercises it we loose it!

I may act more like Yorketransport, but I'm happy as Adams that this guy put himself in the cross hairs for me!

[ADAMS]

I don't know if he was testing the law because it is already well established that WA is an open carry state.  I would venture that he may have been doing what a lot of open carry folks are doing now which is strapping on to show people (1) That it is their right and (2) That there is nothing to be alarmed or concerned about.

You will notice from an earlier post of mine on this thread that several agencies have training materials that instruct that mere open carry, in and of itself, will not be held to warrant alarm.  If my neighbor is alarmed by the sight of a black man walking in our neighborhood and calls the police, he or she maybe alarmed but that alarm would not be warranted.

It's the guys who illegally carry concealed that you need to worry about.  Did you hear about the gang shooting at the Lloyd Center mall in Portland today?  Minors with loaded handguns involved in what appears to have been a gang related fight that went from fisticuffs right to firearms.

I suspect (Does anyone know for sure?) that the mall is a "gun free zone" too.