Trial sets precedent Verdict in grizzly bear shooting shows that people must jus

[boneaddict]

I'm impressed he did the right thing and stood up and admitted it, however I think the Jury was right.  It does sound like fear versus self defense. 

[Atroxus]

The key to this verdict as stated in the article is the bear was "40 yards away when it was shot and had not charged."   That is a great plenty of distance for a bear to be away from you and remain quite handily out of harms way.  I grew up on the western border of Glacier park.  My parents still live there surrounded by national forests.  In the last week my father has been within 40 yards of non charging grizzly bears 3 times.  Hell, he could have re-carpeted his entire house with Grizzly hide twice and added in the 36x48 shop once with the non charging grizzlies he's had within 40 yards in the last 5 years.  Hell, I was 15 yards from a Grizzly just last summer here in Washington.  The point is, if you hunt in Grizzly country you can't be scared of them, period.  Aware and respectful, yes, very much so.  But this was a fair verdict, and to be honest, I am rather surprised they didn't nail him further if there was no evidence of a charge.

So by that logic if a bad guy with a knife is closing slowly from 21 feet you shouldn't shoot because he's not charging? I haven't done the math but I pretty sure that at 40 yards if the bear had charged it could have closed the distance pretty fast at over 30Mph, possibly fast enough to seriously injure or kill the guy before he could kill it. IMO any large predator that shows no fear of humans should be put down immediately before they make a snack out of one of us. We weren't there so the only one that really knows for sure how things went down is the guy that shot the bear. Who are we to say his life wasn't in danger. Obviously he *believed* it was, and reacted accordingly. Penalizing someone for acting in self defense even if that penalty is "only a misdemeanor" seems ludicrous to me.

[Rob]

It does sound like fear versus self defense. 

I concur, you shouldn't shoot a bear because you are "afraid" of it.  If you are under attack, that's plenty fine.

The way I see it, if the bear was feeding and not charging, and he had the opportunity/time to draw and fire a weapon, then he should also have been able to back away with the weapon on the bear, and still have plenty of time to pull the trigger if it starts a charge.  That said, it is pretty easy to offer hindsight from afar!

I gotta say, this makes me an even bigger fan of pepper spray!  Mr. Griz is such a magnificent animal, to be able to see one in the wild is one of the privileges of being out in the wild-being a part of the cycle of life.  If you can protect yourself with spray and both you and the bear can walk away, so much the better.

[canyelk48]

A friend of mine was deer hunting near Seeley Lake, MT, and was being stalked by a huge cougar.  He tried yelling, waving his arms and slowing backing away; to which the cougar only closed the gap with a "cat-like" crawl.  When it got to within 20 yards (about 2 leaps) he shot and killed the cat.  He was alone and no one else in the area to witness this.  Even though there had been a huge winter kill of deer the previous year, and the local game warden noted previous aggressive encounters with cougars due to a food shortage; my friend ended up with a $500 fine and loss of his MT hunting license for the rest of the year.  So much for honesty.  SSS seems to apply in these situations too.

[Atroxus]

A friend of mine was deer hunting near Seeley Lake, MT, and was being stalked by a huge cougar.  He tried yelling, waving his arms and slowing backing away; to which the cougar only closed the gap with a "cat-like" crawl.  When it got to within 20 yards (about 2 leaps) he shot and killed the cat.  He was alone and no one else in the area to witness this.  Even though there had been a huge winter kill of deer the previous year, and the local game warden noted previous aggressive encounters with cougars due to a food shortage; my friend ended up with a $500 fine and loss of his MT hunting license for the rest of the year.  So much for honesty.  SSS seems to apply in these situations too.

Ugh thats ridiculous. According to what I have read mountain lions can leap up to 45 feet horizontally. In my opinion that guy should never have been fined either. I guess you may be right though, if a self-defense situation occurs maybe it is just better to SSS then risk being fined and/or losing hunting privileges for defending yourself.

[GoldTip]

The key to this verdict as stated in the article is the bear was "40 yards away when it was shot and had not charged."   That is a great plenty of distance for a bear to be away from you and remain quite handily out of harms way.  I grew up on the western border of Glacier park.  My parents still live there surrounded by national forests.  In the last week my father has been within 40 yards of non charging grizzly bears 3 times.  Hell, he could have re-carpeted his entire house with Grizzly hide twice and added in the 36x48 shop once with the non charging grizzlies he's had within 40 yards in the last 5 years.  Hell, I was 15 yards from a Grizzly just last summer here in Washington.  The point is, if you hunt in Grizzly country you can't be scared of them, period.  Aware and respectful, yes, very much so.  But this was a fair verdict, and to be honest, I am rather surprised they didn't nail him further if there was no evidence of a charge.

So by that logic if a bad guy with a knife is closing slowly from 21 feet you shouldn't shoot because he's not charging? I haven't done the math but I pretty sure that at 40 yards if the bear had charged it could have closed the distance pretty fast at over 30Mph, possibly fast enough to seriously injure or kill the guy before he could kill it. IMO any large predator that shows no fear of humans should be put down immediately before they make a snack out of one of us. We weren't there so the only one that really knows for sure how things went down is the guy that shot the bear. Who are we to say his life wasn't in danger. Obviously he *believed* it was, and reacted accordingly. Penalizing someone for acting in self defense even if that penalty is "only a misdemeanor" seems ludicrous to me.

Well in my opinion you've actually answered your own question.  The bear was not advancing nor had it charged and therefore did not need to be shot.  By your own description every black bear, cougar, or dog or human with a knife (within 21 feet) thats within 40 yards and doesn't display a fear of me should be shot.  I really hope that is not what you are suggesting?  Sure the bear could have charged and caused serious injury or killed the man, thats no reason to kill first and find out later.  Evidently what happens later is you get charged with a misdemeanor and convicted.  How long do you give the bear to not run away before you kill it?  5 seconds, 10 seconds? 2 minutes, 5 minutes?  OK, if there bear has not demonstrated he is scared of me within the next 30 seconds, I'm gonna kill him just to make sure he doesn't attack me?  That's just ludicrous.  Maybe "someone" needs to stay outta the Grizzly woods, cause sure as hell, sooner or later your gonna find out, some of them ain't scared of you.  They are going to guard their food and not run away.  If he's a coming on then hell yeah, give him the dirt nap, but if he's just guarding his food, and not demonstrating a fear of you,  I'm gonna convict you every time.

[wolfbait]

Some people may not know bear behavior. most people have not been around to many grizzlies. Many go on what they have read or heard. Bottom line if a bear is showing agresive behavior at 40 yards in my opinion he don't have to long to live. I will not sacrifise my life trying to second guess any animal, two or four legged, and as far as the four legged predators I sure as hell would not run to WDFW AKA defenders of bullsh$t and tell them about it. By accident I got a little to close to a grizzly and some cubs last fall up the Twisp river, she was not a happy camper and neither was I, but she didn't force the issue so she is still alive. The grizzly bear issue is starting to look a lot like the wolf issue as far as defending ones self, and to me that is total BS.

[rasbo]

be careful in some places,that gun fire is a dinner bell to a lot of griz

[Wenatcheejay]

Guy should have done his part and been eaten like a good green person would have done. Human life is not worth such a precious Endangered Grizzly.

[ICEMAN]

Ya know what makes me sick about this whole thing is the frufru frilly bullcrap about the Jury and the Verdict.... Quote:“This verdict sent a message of healing and reconciliation.”  Really?

They also elaborated on how wonderful it was to have a "hunter" on the jury. Really?

This is the whole problem. IMSAO (In my stupid ass opinion) the juries should be totally random from the population. You get what you get. Instead, they get a jury that has some hunter on it, and then feel that the verdict is "healing and reconciliatory".... What? Because a hunter was on the jury, now all hunters are OK with the verdict?

Can't we all just get along? 

If some country boy shot a street thug in an innercity ghetto because he felt "threatened" or feared for his life, and we prosecuted the boy in the country.... should we worry about packing a jury and getting a healing and reconcilatory verdict? Too much political correctedness and posturing in my opinion. Seat a jury, get a finding, done. Quit politicizing the damned issues. 

 

[sisu]

How far is 40yds at 35mph?

The nearest answer I can give ya Mike Walking is this: at 60mph you are going approx 88 feet per second so at 35mph you are going 51.3 feet per second. 40 yards is 120 feet, therefore the bear if not starting from a dead stop but is going 35mph at the get go will cover the 120 feet in 2.3 seconds, but this is not the case as the bear has to start its charge from a dead stop so there will be a lag time. What that lag time is no one can say but it's sufficient to say it's not long.

I've been charged by 4 black bears in Alaska. All four had bird shot or buck shot blasted over heads or between feet and all four turned tail and ran away. A fifth was in our camp site in early AM charged me, remember I can't hear well, and was scared away by my wife banging a frying pan against the side of the truck camper. That bear BTW died that afternoon when it rampaged through the camp ground. (we were on the Kenai River Camp Ground).

Grizzly bears are a different animal all together. I've been fortunate enough to not have been bothered by aggressive ones only curious ones that left once they decided I was a crazy Finn. What I have been told by some very respected guides is this: a griz will leave you alone most of the time, but IF that bear that sights you is on higher ground that you and it decides to charge. It will not be a false charge. I got this little tidbit from two guides out around Chickaloon and Glacier, Alaska. Both are very experienced and woods savvy.

[MikeWalking]

Grizzly bears are a different animal all together. I've been fortunate enough to not have been bothered by aggressive ones only curious ones that left once they decided I was a crazy Finn. What I have been told by some very respected guides is this: a griz will leave you alone most of the time, but IF that bear that sights you is on higher ground that you and it decides to charge. It will not be a false charge. I got this little tidbit from two guides out around Chickaloon and Glacier, Alaska. Both are very experienced and woods savvy.

Ditto. I've encountered 1 or 2 on each of my 5 trips into the Brooks. Only one kept coming a little to long, and once he figured out what I was he turned and walked off, pooping as he went. The others either ran (one for miles looking back, at a half mile he still looked like a clydesdale)

The only one to charge, a Sow with two cubs, turned out to actually be after the squirrels I couldn't see. She spent 20-30 minutes digging them up around a  boulder 150yds away.  Got some great pics around here somewhere.

After the meal. I put the camera away and a few seconds later the bigger cub swung my way stood up bawled and they all sprinted into a stand of flooded willows.

[Wenatcheejay]

Someone should feed the Jury to the bears