good day 4 the tribe

[monster_bull]

ya cuz all the white people cant aford to go to the ER. DUh. think about it...

[monster_bull]

And one more thing... if you go back in history  a couple of decades. who was responsible for killing all the elk deer buffalo ext.? any guesses? oh it was the white man.. cant blame that one on the Indians.

[fair-chase]

And one more thing... if you go back in history  a couple of decades. who was responsible for killing all the elk deer buffalo ext.? any guesses? oh it was the white man.. cant blame that one on the Indians.

Yep, you got that right. We could sit around here and bash a bunch of dead guys for crimes they committed a century ago, or we could focus on trying to change what is plaguing us today.

[gonehuntin68]

I really wish there was something we could do, no one should be able to shoot more that one animal unless by permit, and the natives get land too, get a job like everyone else and buy it. I dont care what happend 100 years ago get over it i had nothing to do with it

[colockumelk]

i will keep laughing until you guys quit blaming everything on Indians. we are all not the same. all you guys do on this web site is talk trash. nothing good comes from it. you guys bash Indians and bad mouth us. but there aer white people that are worse then Indians out there and you know it.  Did you notice how every time an elk is found dead or poached you guys automatically blame it on the Natives?  so put you  back in ur pocket. read the posts and blogs. i was trying to be understanding but all you guys do is talk trash. i tryed but you guys pushed me away with all of you bad mouthing. i meet some cool people on here. but other people are out right crazy. i don't shoot that many elk. trust me. if i wanted to i could. but i let them walk. i am all for better elk heads. but bad mouthing Natives isn't the way to go. because all there going to do is laugh in ur face and do what they want.

monster_bull I have done more research on the Colockum than the wildlife bio's have.  There's been a couple of papers that did an article on my stuff including the Yakima Herald.  I DON"T blame everything on the Indians.  The main problem is spike recruitment in the Colockum.  HOWEVER.....   the Yakama's do have an impact on the Colockum elk herd.  In fact the Yakama's have become a tipping point on whether or not that elk herd sees an increase or a decrease in bull numbers.  It didnt used to be that way.  Only a few elk were harvested by Yakamas.  But word of mouth got around and now there are ALOT of Yakamas that hunts the Colockum.  So they are now making a very negative impact on that elk herd. Per Person your tribal members harvest far more than it's equal share considering on average each hunter only harvest an elk every 7 years and in these cases its a Spike.  Compared with some members on here from your tribe who harvest 6 bulls a year at a minimum.  So yes it does have an impact.

The WDFW scientifically and strictly controls the amount of elk harvested by legal hunters.  And have decreased the amount of branch bull tags given out every year taken away ALL cow permits in the Colockum, Archery can not shoot cows, taken away the muzzle loader general season and now hunters can only harvest "True Spikes." It is THE most restrictedd area in Washingnton.  So many hunters are angry that we are seeing a ton of restrictions and paying money to the RMEF and for hunting licenses and doing OUR part to make the herd better and healthier.  But the Yakama's have done NOTHING for this herd and instead only kill a good number of the few Branch Antler bulls.  All were asking is that the Yakama's restrict the amount of elk that it allows its members to harvest in this very ill area.  Or at the very least release harvest data to help out the WDFW.  Instead the Yakama nation has refused to help out in anyway.  All members do is take from this herd. 

Further more members on here wait 15 years to draw a tag to have one opportunity to harvest a mature bull elk.  And then a member of your tribe on this site shoots more bulls himself from that area than ALL of us hunters combined.  And he does it every year.  So can you now see why we are upset? 

We are NOT asking you to lose all your rights.  All we want is if the Yakama is going to hunt this elk herd at least help our WDFW to properly manage this herd.  This means meeting us half way and restricting your tribes harvest numbers.  All WE ASK is fairness and responsibility.  As of yet we have seen NONE of this from the Yakama nation in regards to the Colockum Elk Herd. 

Again the Yakamas are NOT FULLY to blame for the Colockum elk herds current situation.  The WDFW is more to blame than the Yakama Nation is.  But the Yakamas couuld also do their part in helping out.  All were asking is to be met half way. 

[rock]

i will keep laughing until you guys quit blaming everything on Indians. we are all not the same. all you guys do on this web site is talk trash. nothing good comes from it. you guys bash Indians and bad mouth us. but there aer white people that are worse then Indians out there and you know it.  Did you notice how every time an elk is found dead or poached you guys automatically blame it on the Natives?  so put you  back in ur pocket. read the posts and blogs. i was trying to be understanding but all you guys do is talk trash. i tryed but you guys pushed me away with all of you bad mouthing. i meet some cool people on here. but other people are out right crazy. i don't shoot that many elk. trust me. if i wanted to i could. but i let them walk. i am all for better elk heads. but bad mouthing Natives isn't the way to go. because all there going to do is laugh in ur face and do what they want.

monster_bull I have done more research on the Colockum than the wildlife bio's have.  There's been a couple of papers that did an article on my stuff including the Yakima Herald.  I DON"T blame everything on the Indians.  The main problem is spike recruitment in the Colockum.  HOWEVER.....   the Yakama's do have an impact on the Colockum elk herd.  In fact the Yakama's have become a tipping point on whether or not that elk herd sees an increase or a decrease in bull numbers.  It didnt used to be that way.  Only a few elk were harvested by Yakamas.  But word of mouth got around and now there are ALOT of Yakamas that hunts the Colockum.  So they are now making a very negative impact on that elk herd. Per Person your tribal members harvest far more than it's equal share considering on average each hunter only harvest an elk every 7 years and in these cases its a Spike.  Compared with some members on here from your tribe who harvest 6 bulls a year at a minimum.  So yes it does have an impact.

The WDFW scientifically and strictly controls the amount of elk harvested by legal hunters.  And have decreased the amount of branch bull tags given out every year taken away ALL cow permits in the Colockum, Archery can not shoot cows, taken away the muzzle loader general season and now hunters can only harvest "True Spikes." It is THE most restrictedd area in Washingnton.  So many hunters are angry that we are seeing a ton of restrictions and paying money to the RMEF and for hunting licenses and doing OUR part to make the herd better and healthier.  But the Yakama's have done NOTHING for this herd and instead only kill a good number of the few Branch Antler bulls.  All were asking is that the Yakama's restrict the amount of elk that it allows its members to harvest in this very ill area.  Or at the very least release harvest data to help out the WDFW.  Instead the Yakama nation has refused to help out in anyway.  All members do is take from this herd. 

Further more members on here wait 15 years to draw a tag to have one opportunity to harvest a mature bull elk.  And then a member of your tribe on this site shoots more bulls himself from that area than ALL of us hunters combined.  And he does it every year.  So can you now see why we are upset? 

We are NOT asking you to lose all your rights.  All we want is if the Yakama is going to hunt this elk herd at least help our WDFW to properly manage this herd.  This means meeting us half way and restricting your tribes harvest numbers.  All WE ASK is fairness and responsibility.  As of yet we have seen NONE of this from the Yakama nation in regards to the Colockum Elk Herd. 

Again the Yakamas are NOT FULLY to blame for the Colockum elk herds current situation.  The WDFW is more to blame than the Yakama Nation is.  But the Yakamas couuld also do their part in helping out.  All were asking is to be met half way. 

 

[bigdog9236]

Does anybody have any idea how many non indians go hunting with indians and shoot just as many elk as the indian does, because I know of quite a few

[colockumelk]

Which is WRONG!!! And we all condemn that.  Oh also here's another thing if the American's get caught they go to jail.  If Indians get caught nothing happens.  Because the tribes have shown that they are unwilling to prosecute their members.  And once again we are talking about TWO COMPLETELY different things bigdog.

Why is it that everytime myself or someone else talks about why can't there be fairness and equality in hunting regulations, and why is descrimination okay when its against white people.  Or when we talk about why can't the tribes help practise proper game managment or help the WDFW in this pursuit, or why can't they even at the VERY LEAST submit harvest reports....  Tribal members or the people with white guilt try and turn it around?  Every time you bring up poachers.  Are you all trying to compare poachers to Indians?  We aren't. We ALL hate poachers on here.  Whats your point? 

I would like for once an Indian or a White Guilt person to have ONE SINGLE comback and actually debate me about 1. Proper Game Managment and what the tribes does for the Colockum.  Or 2. The fact that it's okay that hunting in WA fits the definition of discrimination to a T. 

bigdog don't mean to jump on you but you just spouted the same boring useless argument that has absolutely nothing to do with what myself or others on here are talking about.  I have heard it from every single tribal member on here.  I mention discrimination and saving the elk herd and ethics and I get back 1855 treaty and white people poach.  It gets frustrating.  I have yet to hear from someone on here that can tell me how discrimination is okay.  Will you be the first?

[phishisgroovin]

its opbsurd at the population up on colockum, the bulls have vanished. not one was seen in three days time up there.
Last year i atleast got to look at a bull, this year NOTHING, all i seen that resembled a bull was a spike shed i found. so i know they USED to exist up there atleast.

Kind of ashamed i chose to hunt that side now, its PATHETIC over there.

Just found this in a google search LOL!
http://www.cafepress.com/ElkHuntingwa

True spike only areas need to be closed completely to ALL hunting for a few years and closed longer to tribes to see just how deep of an impact their hunts hurt areas.

[bigdog9236]

I am enrolled yakama I do all my killing on the reservation. I don't need to go hunt of rez the only reason yakamas go off rez is because off rez elk r dumb, and yes I agree yakamas shoot way 2 many bulls. Myself I hunt for meat to eat you can't eat horns.

[bigdog9236]

Huntnnw what the hell does drunk indians have to do with hunting, how indians have u seen drunk hunting I imagine their is more non indians drunk in the mountains than indians.

[phishisgroovin]

Im not trying to bash tribes, i have native blood in me also.
just peaved that all the bulls are gone, knowing i see ALOT every year up there for years then see ZERO this year at all.

[bigdog9236]

On the reservation there is atleast 50 bulls shot a year and our herd is just fine. I don't see how the clokum herd is hurting that bad unless it was a small herd to begin with but then I don't know how many bulls have been taken out of the herd. I don't even know where the clokum is

[Coastal_native]

Whitefoot, Mosterbull, and other Tribesmen..... What do you think the answer is, If i concede you have special hunting rights? I doubt good tribesmen of any tribe think wasting game is a good thing... I have friends from the Yakima's and am curious what you think... I doubt you are a hunting/fishing slob because you are here seeking knowledge to be a better outdoors-man. I know all tribes are not the same and there are many members here from different tribes. I know that there is an NW Indian fisheries Commission to try and help the tribes as a whole. ( I know this from the quarterly magazine they produce.)

I challenge you to speak up and explain so that we can better understand and together be better stewards of the gifts God has given us...

I look forward to hearing your insights.

It's funny... I joined this forum to see how fellow hunters are doing on the west side and so far I just find myself entranced by the tribal bashing trend on some of these threads.  I'm a native american from the westside and I've had the opportunity to work for my tribes wildlife management dept as well as assisting some of the other tribes and WDFW with big game projects.  I'm not sure I have the insight that you're looking for, but I can assure you that treaty tribes are not an enemy to WA hunters, nor do they warrant the amount of time that gets spent talking about them.  Our ancestors were forced with a decision to either sign treaties or continue to fight, I don't blame them for there choice.  A condition of the treaty was to reserve the right to hunt, fish, and gather from the land as they had done from time immemorial.  Today we hunt with modern weapons and modern transportation and have liberal seasons and bag limits.  Most tribes hire wildlife managers and biologists that help to ensure that the game populations can support the amount of harvest that is taking place.  Some tribal members including myself kill mulitiple elk and deer every year.  Most do it with good intentions but some do it because they can.  I put elk and deer meat in all my extended family members freazers and it is one the most honerable things I do.  I choose to hunt trophy animals because I love to hunt mature elk and deer (as do most hunters) and my family is happy to get what ever meat they can.  I also choose to exclusively hunt my reservation because we have far more elk and deer per hunter than any area off reservation (too many hunters, too few animals). 

With all that being said I still don't think tribes are the reason why anyone should be unhappy as a hunter in WA state.  There are far worse enemies to hunters out there and I'm sure most of you can probably name them.  One thing that everyone fails to realize is that tribal harvest is so insignificant to the big picture, but it gets so much attention simply because we do it with different rules.  When it comes to hunting we are not equals...we're not asking for equality, we're asking that our federal gov continue to honor the treaties.  We our continuing to modify our way a life to fit in...and i'm not sure we're succeeding. The only reason why we are encorporating modern game management rules is because we now have to share a resource with a population that it can't support.  It is unfortunate.

I encourage people to get to know a tribal hunter and hear there stories.  Get a feel for how many tribal hunters are using there liberal bag limits the way they were intented to be used...I think you'd be surprised.  I encourage tribal hunters to get to know a state hunter and go out and grind it out during a tuff, crowded state season and get some appreciation for how hard it is and how important the hunting tradition is, not just to tribal hunters, but to everyone.  I encourage people on this forum to have a productive conversation about something that does have a significant impact on game populations and our rights to hunt.

Thanks for the invite Special T

[Special T]

I would agree that in many cases tribes work with the state to make deer and elk herds better. In my Area the Upper Skagit worked with the WDFW to try and make the Nooksack herd huntable.. In that case i think the real enemy is the BS rules of no hound hunting for Bear and Cougar... I believe they are the big reason why it took 30 yrs to get a huntable herd. Now that it is open to hunting there are limits... Tribal tags and white man tags... I think that shows the cooperation... I know in the above discussion between Mosterbull and Clockumelk there is no measure of impact on a herd that could crash... It would seem that it is in both interests to do something. I think in the case of the Clockum and the Yakimas the herd will need to crash in order for some limits to be placed on tribal hunting, for the good of the herd.. The only other thing the WDFW could do with in its power is to close hunting... Which makes no since if there are no limits on tribal hunting...

BTW Welcome to the discussion Costal Native...