Are harvest reports even a useful tool for wdfw / us hunters ???

[dirty24d]

So I'm curious as to what you fellas / ladies think about this and if you actually file the area you harvested your deer or elk..

I'm asking because i know quite a few individuals who always file their deer as being harvested in one area which skews the numbers. I figure if i myself know of probably 10 guys that do this there are probably a ton more.

Second part of this is what do you think this does to the management of the area?  Is it extremely harmful to the game counts, do you think it has resulted in areas having tighter restrictions because so many people claim they are pulling deer out of there..

[chester]

I file truthfully. I do wish that they wouldnt release that info to the internet scouters though 

[dewandgin]

I have always filed my truthfully and correct creeks and areas

[chester]

I didnt read the last part of your post the first time. i think its harmful to an area. when they release that info, people rely on the net to do there looking for them. it leads to crowding in areas.

[dirty24d]

Yeah I'm just wondering if it could possibly play into areas having tighter minimums  like 3 point or better etc... because of the falsifying of harvest.   The guys i know say they do it because they dont like reporting their area for that very reason (the internet) and the crowds it draws.  so they all report one area and feel the crowds then move to that area instead.

[luvtohnt]

The wdfw uses the harvest reports to get harvest trends. Harvest trends help with population assessment of a given area. So in the end they could be screwing themselves. The way I see it is there are a lot of regular changes on the westside and these falsified reports could be skewing the data enough to cause the changes. Population surveys are only a piece of the puzzle in game management. The more accurate the information the better the management will be!!  

As far as for their personal gain the majority of people who hunt also go out and scout so if they don't find any sign they are going to move to another area, So your friends idea of forcing crowds to a different area is just plain stupid!!

Brandon

[ICEMAN]

Personally, I feel that by asking hunters to post their success results, they have an easy out to blame hunters for the declining populations.....the hunters lied and skewed the results.

Shouldn't proper game management be all about being in the field and personally observing game populations and carrying capacity, because expecting hunters, many who are in a big last minute dash to post any result so they can purchase a tag, is expecting too much in my opinion. Lastly, do we really need to know how long it took someone to harvest their game?


I would rather they drop the hunter reporting and rely on good ol' fashion boot earned observation and apply their schooling to what they find in the field. 

[chester]

As far as for their personal gain the majority of people who hunt also go out and scout so if they don't find any sign they are going to move to another area, So your friends idea of forcing crowds to a different area is just plain stupid!!

Brandon

If only that were true. the majority? maybe. some? yes. every year we see more people show up in the area i hunt. with campers, atvs, and cheapy little maps printed off google from up north. they have never stepped foot in there before but opening day they show up. because the internet told them it was good, on a forum like this, on go hunt , and then they look at HARVEST REPORTS. idk how they get the idea if alot of animals are taken there they can just show up and do the same. I really wish the dept would use those numbers. But not put them out there. If those were kept under wraps and not released compliance would go up.

[dirty24d]

I agree.. So for all you guys out there wondering what area i'm talking about it's huckleberry 121... 

[Special T]

I think the info can be beneficial but an explanation of how they run things would be better... In survey work or statistical analysis, data is only valuable if it is accurate AND meaningful.... Many people confuse a Correlation relationship with a causation relationship.... For example... Most people who get DUI and/or get in wrecks drunk drink more than 2 cups of coffee a day.. Does that mean drinking coffee make you more likely to get a DUI or Wreck? Hell NO! but most drunks drink a lot of coffee!  We all know that Booze causes the problem not coffee....   It is a lot harder to prove a cause relationship than one that Correlates...

[JimmyHoffa]

I figure that the published successes attract people, so I tend to look for areas with lower success such that I can escape crowds.  But scouting ahead of time will convince me if the harvest reports seem like reality.  

[dirty24d]

In my opinion the majority of hunters do not scout therefore the harvest reports play a biig role in where the yahoo's line up for a crack at the honey!! I understand why the guys do it keep people away from their holes  i dont really agree with it but they sware by it and say it's common for people to report incorrectly for this very reason..

[dirty24d]

24 votes thats it..   

cmon we can do better than that..

[boneaddict]

I file truthfully.

[Bob33]

Hmmm...let me see if I understand this poll correctly: if I lie on my harvest reports, I won't lie to you when I say I don't lie when I report?

[chester]

Thats the basis of it 

[Practical Approach]

Personally, I feel that by asking hunters to post their success results, they have an easy out to blame hunters for the declining populations.....the hunters lied and skewed the results.

Shouldn't proper game management be all about being in the field and personally observing game populations and carrying capacity, because expecting hunters, many who are in a big last minute dash to post any result so they can purchase a tag, is expecting too much in my opinion. Lastly, do we really need to know how long it took someone to harvest their game?


I would rather they drop the hunter reporting and rely on good ol' fashion boot earned observation and apply their schooling to what they find in the field. 

Harvest is a piece of the puzzle for biologists to use to help them figure out what is going on in a specific area with game populations.  Proper game management isn't always about the field.  Sure, you need to spend a fair amount of time in the field but that is just part of the picture.   Population surveys are great for getting population trend data on overall population size and sex rations including calving or fawning rates.  While this information is great to compare year to year, it is also nice to look at bull and buck survival in your populations as well.  If there aren't enough bulls or bucks escaping the hunting season among other environmental factors, then adjustments need to be made to hunting seasons.  With the addition of harvest information it is easier to validate any buck or bull changes you are finding in your surveys.  

Not to mention, surveys (time in the field)  is a huge expense.  For one, there are not enough biologist to spend all of their time surveying all of Washingtons elk and deer populations.  Shoot, helicopter time alone runs around 800 bucks an hour for flight time.  It would take big bucks that WDFW doesn't have to survey every GMU the way some folks feel they should be surveyed.  


I think as an environmentally conscious hunter and a stewards of the land, we should be on our toes about reporting  info as soon as you can.  Reporting your harvest in a timely manner is on way a hunter can actively participate and help out to better manage populations.  

I know I am extreme, but in my opinion you shouldn't get a tag the following year if you don't report your harvest by the deadline.

[ouchfoss]

I feel the same way others do about it. I like the fact it is used as a management tool to determine how the population of a herd is doing in reference to how many animals where harvested in that GMU but I dont like that the information is available to anyone who wants to look it up on the net.

[Gringo31]

I fill mine out accurately.

The wdfw uses the harvest reports to get harvest trends. Harvest trends help with population assessment of a given area.

Yet, hard to make any good use of harvest reports with game or fish when the tribe doesn't play nice in this dept.

[boneaddict]

Yet the funny thing is I absolutely don't use harvest reports as a guidline to where I want to hunt.  I still scout using my two feet.

[chester]

Thats the way to do it bone. and you see alot more then most.

[Annette]

They used it to track me and send me a notice about the Wolves   

[addicted]

yes they are a useful tool for wdfw. do they use them? that is a different story.

[Little Dave]

There's a whole host of simpletons encouraging the state to manage game with wolves, bears and cougars.  However, our argument to counter that is that hunting is a better and more cost effective option.  One example that we provide in these debates is that hunters provide information.  An accurate and timely report of where, when, and how much time was spent hunting is something a wolf, bear, or cougar will not do.  The information is essential for management.  For one example, it is cited in the state's revised elk management plan that I have recently reviewed.

Ten dollars isn't a signifcant penalty considering the value of the information for both management and keeping hunting relevant in the ongoing debate about how to manage wildlife.  Compare other late fees.  Late with a financial payment these days the fee will probably be at least three times higher.

There should be a more substantial penalty for late reporting.  I'd like to see the penalty set up as an option between a refundable deposit in the same amount as the license or the reportable tag restricted to a specific game unit and reduced date range which excludes opening day.

[Snapshot]

They justified taking away 1/4 of the early archery deer season in 2009 by saying, "Few people were using that time anyway". Hunter reports told them that. Because of that I will now hunt every day that is open, even if it is just map hunting. 

[Little Dave]

That statement, "Few people were using that time anyway," could only be derived from the report if successful hunters reported more frequently than unsuccessful hunters.  Successful hunters that report are asked to provide the month and date of their kill.  Therefore, it can be presumed that they are not continuing to hunt after that date.  Perhaps if more unsuccessful hunters reported, the state would not be able to make that assumption.

[Practical Approach]

I fill mine out accurately.

The wdfw uses the harvest reports to get harvest trends. Harvest trends help with population assessment of a given area.

Yet, hard to make any good use of harvest reports with game or fish when the tribe doesn't play nice in this dept.

Westside Tribes do.

[Bofire]

Nope, I never hunt anything, easiest way to get past a pain in the ass that the state will not use anyway.
Carl

[steen]

Truthfully.  There is always those who like to mess up surveys by fudging on the statistics.  How many people do you really think use those statistics for their hunts.  I have never used it.  Even if someone put 4x4 on their hunter report does not tell you what size the deer is, only the rack, not mass and not whether or not it is a trophy.  Unfortunetly the game dept considers a 4x4 or even a 5x5 (that is counting the eye guards) as a trophy.  Now if they also asked for width and mass around the bases it would say lost more.  But I don't understand why anyone would fudge the results.   How many deer shot in a certain area can change every year also.  I hunt where I hunt mostly for the fun in camp with friends and family, getting a deer is a bonus.  There is alway blacktail everywhere back home.

[Little Dave]

One would probably spend more time in the year watching the full length of those long pharmaceutical ads a over and over than the few minutes it might take to file an accurate report.

A few have mentioned that the state sent out bulletins about the wolves for some hunting in Sherman or Kelly Hill.  That's how it is used now.  After a number of years the state may be able to have a "you may also be interested in" tempting feature which cross references your reporting pattern with others to both maximize their sustaining revenue and optimistically, hunter success.  It's kind of like how targeted ads work on some of the search websites.

In computer science, there's a phrase "garbage in, garbage out" which applies to this.  If we as a group send the department incorrect reports, we shouldn't be expecting much more than incorrect management as a result.  Send in an accurate report if you have the time... or sit back and enjoy the ED commercial and wonder how it all went wrong.

[ML_Hunter]

Yet the funny thing is I absolutely don't use harvest reports as a guidline to where I want to hunt.  I still scout using my two feet.

...and a camera lens apparently  

Fill it out accurately.  WDFW may make decisions to close areas, shorten seasons, or not have a hunting season at all if folks don't fill out the report accurately .  I typically fill mine out the day of my harvest.  If for any other reason, just so that I do not forget 

[danceswitharrows]

I report honestly 
As to unit 121, no deer there

[huntnnw]

never killed anything 

[MADMAX]

I talked to a couple of guys in Raymond this year while on an elk hunt , They just started laughing about harvest reports when I talked about success percentages.
They said do you really fill that out and send it in ?
I told them I did and accurately reported the GMU, but I guess looking at their reaction to me telling them that, under or not reporting, just to skew stats, is not something I ever thought much about before this year.

[dirty24d]

I talked to a couple of guys in Raymond this year while on an elk hunt , They just started laughing about harvest reports when I talked about success percentages.
They said do you really fill that out and send it in ?
I told them I did and accurately reported the GMU, but I guess looking at their reaction to me telling them that, under or not reporting, just to skew stats, is not something I ever thought much about before this year.

Same here, that why i started this poll. I have a feeling that its a pretty darn widespread practice of not reposrting accurate info or just reporting no animal killed.

[MADMAX]

Guess so
They said they don't want others to be able to see where all the animals are being taken because of overcrowding.
Trust me and I am sure you agree its no secret which units hold the majority of elk.
I'll still report accurately at least at the GMU level

[Skyvalhunter]

Well atleast we know the special permit people have to report accurately

[elkslayer069]

I hate the reporting system i lie and make *censored* up year after year. What really get me fired up is people i talk to in the woods have nothing to talk about but the number of people hunted there and what they killed and how many bulls were taken and what success rates are its a bunch a BS. Get off the couch and do your own scouting.

[granola/hippyslayer]

i only use it to see where the huge concentrations of hunters are. huge suprizes

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

When more animals are reported harvested in an area, the WDFW assumes that the population is steady, or increasing, and will allow a larger harvest,
if the harvest is dropping, they assume the opposite, and restrict the harvest,
so if you report falsely stating that you hunted in a different unit, that unit will have more permits, or some other type of change in the next 3 year cycle (WDFW Rule-making)
and the one you are actually hunting in will lose permits and opportunity, if you don't want crowds, I guess it could work in your favor...........
I tell the truth, because I just cannot seem to think about lying until its too late, and I like having other hunters in my area, because I go were they don't, and try to use other hunters to my advantage.
When you are working a Bull Elk, and he wont cross an opening because of road-hunters, or guys talking, or even walking down a road..........
I actually met a guy last year that confused me by talking about all the trails in an area with few trails (other than game trails), until I realized he meant roads that were gated he was walking on.......

[Practical Approach]

Well atleast we know the special permit people have to report accurately

Not completely,  they don't have to report that they got an animal...  WDFW doesn't always get a chance to follow up with the hunter if they don't voluntarily report their harvest.

[Packers10]

Actually there is this neat little coefficient in statistics called a confidence interval....and believe it or not, it is used to measure the accuracy of an estimate.  The great thing about a confidence interval is that it can be easily determined from a smaller subset of data....basically the WDFW has pretty good data indicating how many people lie versus tell the truth on their harvest reports.  The large volume of data that the WDFW gets from the harvest reports is invaluable. 

[Practical Approach]

Actually there is this neat little coefficient in statistics called a confidence interval....and believe it or not, it is used to measure the accuracy of an estimate.  The great thing about a confidence interval is that it can be easily determined from a smaller subset of data....basically the WDFW has pretty good data indicating how many people lie versus tell the truth on their harvest reports.  The large volume of data that the WDFW gets from the harvest reports is invaluable. 

Ok, so where does the states data fall in this confidence interval.  What data or surveys are they using to determine liars vs non liars?  I agree harvest reports are helpful tools, but I would question the states accuracy in determining whether people are lying or not. 

[Packers10]

Actually there is this neat little coefficient in statistics called a confidence interval....and believe it or not, it is used to measure the accuracy of an estimate.  The great thing about a confidence interval is that it can be easily determined from a smaller subset of data....basically the WDFW has pretty good data indicating how many people lie versus tell the truth on their harvest reports.  The large volume of data that the WDFW gets from the harvest reports is invaluable. 

Ok, so where does the states data fall in this confidence interval.  What data or surveys are they using to determine liars vs non liars?  I agree harvest reports are helpful tools, but I would question the states accuracy in determining whether people are lying or not. 

I don't know, and I don't know.  All I know is a little bit about statistics, and I can tell you that by sampling a subset of data, for instance asking 10 people if they lied or not, is a rather accurate way of getting a confidence interval.  It really works well, people actually tell you if they lied - just look back at the posts on here ....think of the political polls and how accurate they are (people lie about how they voted too).  They don't poll very many people to get that level of accuracy and they have developed confidence intervals by asking if people have lied or not.  I'm just saying the data the state collects should be pretty darn accurate - how they use it is another thing entirely.

[Jack Diamond]

Hunters Lie?? OMG.

[mulehunter]

I usually Report accurate of my time and kill or not every year, It doesnt bother me at all. BUT... I wish there a Report about Cougar hunting when Biologlist found the trax with his volteer houndman and I came to his spot and asked, Can I have this permit kill, They told me no and go other place and come back next day after they collared this cat, I said well 5 years waitting for my special permit. I aint think so Do you have dogs with you. No Well I got my dogs with me, Gotta get them on loose, and Biologlist and his houndman start to Threat me and cussing Yell almost threw his hand on our face and told us to get off the canyon Yell at me this is "Biologlist Trax not yours", told me to pull your fking dogs off or I will Call Gammie and he has radio on his hand trying calling local Gamedept few sec later they left on snowmobile 200 yards upper road stop and wait to see if We decide to leave or not and I get more worried and wonder if they are waitting for Gamedept to come so I shocked my hounds collars to pull my dogs off the cougar trax and left to other canyon.     I dont know if I did right or wrong, I dont understand why I wait 5 years on my special Permit while they are busy collaring Cats in my favorite canyons.  I would have filled my Tag with 140 lbs Cougar special Permit  if Biologlist would just be NICE to me after I asked CAN I HAVE THIS PERMIT KILL Trax.  I guess they arent good people. ANYWAY  Next day You see  how 5 biologlist parked with FULL Muscle flex Marched in. This is not how good TOOL they are to us as hunter.

Since I Email to few different Head of WDFW, and Head of Defense. NONE OF THEM REPSONSED TO ME about my Experience.

Whatever.


Mulehunter