Hoof rot

[kibber]

I'm a new member to Hunting Washington and was review some posts back in 2008 about hoof rot. Shot a cow in Ryderwood late season (2010) that had hoof rot. Is there any new info on hoof rot and what the Game Department is doing about it. I would assume they are saying they don't have the funding to find a solution. I also do not understand why they would shorten the season if they are attempting to thin the elk with hoof rot. Sorry if I'm behind the curve and introducing a dead subject on the forum.

[fishcrazy]

This is an intresting subject I have seen little on.

They do have a plan to deal with hoof rot. I don't think you will like it. WDFW is talking about planting wolves in the Willipa hills. They shouldn't have any problem finding and killing any elk with hoof rot.
Or any other game sick or not.

Kris

[bobcat]

I don't think there is anything that CAN be done about it, except as fishcrazy said- wolves. The only other solution would be to greatly reduce the number of elk, most likely by giving out more antlerless elk permits on those areas with the hoof rot problem.

I'm not sure what you mean by "why they would shorten the season"?  I wasn't aware that it had been shortened.   

[runamuk]

Hoof rot is spreading in an outward patter from the research I did on this.  They have known about its existence and OSU has done a little research but it was aimed at the hoof rot in the deer near the columbia river.  What I have learned is it is probably not bacterial and is more likely genetic...similar to certain breeds of sheep that are prone to hoof rot in the right conitions....wet being one of those conditions.  Controlling it is probably not feasible in some areas it may be too late.  This topic is one that bugs me because they just do not consider it important....where are all those anti's who love little animals.....the elk suffer with this its painful but seems there is no way torofit from it so it is not a worthwhile endeavor to help olve the problem

[fishcrazy]

Alot of units had a shorter late archery season this year.

I don't understand how they are going to reduce the size of the St Hellens herd when they reduce the seasons.

Kris

[bobcat]

Oh ok, I'm not an archery hunter so I didn't realize that. I think the St Helens herd has already been reduced substantially from what it was a few years ago. Do you not agree? They've been giving out hundreds of antlerless elk permits for some of the GMU's and from what I saw in the Toutle in 2009 while hunting with my brother on his muzzleloader cow elk permit, the elk numbers are way down. At least we saw way less elk in the same areas that we hunted two years prior.

[fishcrazy]

Bobcat.
I read something about 1 year ago maybe more that said even though they had been harvesting all those extra elk the herd was still growing in size. We also thought we had seen fewer animals in places but in others we see just as many or more.

I just hope this hoof rot don't get going on the other side of I-5 and end up spreading across the Cascades.

Kris

[bobcat]

From what I've read on the subject, hoof rot is only a problem in wet areas, so hopefully it will never be a problem further east.

[jumpin]

This year with the snow during the 530 late hunt we saw hundreds of elk, thosands of elk track.
It seemed like there was alot of blood in the tracks. Im not sure if the cows were still in rut. I did hear a few bugles
while stirrin them up with my reed.  4 elk in camp, no rot, didnt see to many limpers up high  

[HntnFsh]

Bobcat.
I read something about 1 year ago maybe more that said even though they had been harvesting all those extra elk the herd was still growing in size. We also thought we had seen fewer animals in places but in others we see just as many or more.

I just hope this hoof rot don't get going on the other side of I-5 and end up spreading across the Cascades.

Kris

Its already on the other side of I-5.Just not as prevalent....Yet!

[kibber]

Its seems no info. has been pasted done from the game department in regards to his issue. This is what I have been complaining to my hunting partners about for years. The game department seems to do what they want when they want with out input from those that are in the woods year round.

[blackveltbowhunter]

I dont have any scientific data to back this up. Different reports turn up different data as whether its an infection they spread between themselves and becomes more prevalent when the elk " yard up" usually in wet lowland grazing areas. Or an actual birth defect, genetic in nature.  The results are the same, elk with limited mobility. This leads to my other observation, I think the problem will resolve itself. Over the past couple years I have noticed less and less elk with the affliction than 2-3 years ago, yes I still see them but overall there are less of them. The biggest reason being hunter predation. The afflicted elk simply dont move as far or as fast as the healthy ones. Of the elk I have observed or seen killed with hoof rot all have appeared healthy in body size and weight, forage is plentiful and elk dont have to move alot to get adequate feed. They do to escape, or move distance in response to hunter pressure. So as the infected ( or defected) ones are harvested there is less and less spread.

[bow4elk]

I woke up on the wrong side of the bed so ignore this if you don't want to deal with my attitude  

Hunters will ALWAYS PAY THE STATE to reduce any game specie, for any reason assuming it is beneficial to the overall herd/ecosystem balance, or in this case, to thin or cull affected animals.  To be clear, paying for hunting opportunity is money for the state's wallet.  Stating the obvious here since our "leaders" are just driving our debt to new all-time levels of irresponsibility.  Dare I say, idiots?  Yes, that fits.

Wolves are not an appropriate solution to the targeted issue of hoof rot or any other ailment.  Period.  This logic is highly flawed because wolves don't operate in a way that solves this specific issue.  Sure, they will kill a lot of hoof rot affected animals but so do coyotes and bears already.  They are the appropriate "level" of predator for this, along with allowing hunters the additional responsibility - one they will gladly PAY for.  I've not seen anything official about the further expansion of wolves in Western WA.  I haven't looked either.  Dale?

As for Mt. St. Helens elk, the state has a much larger emotional issue to deal with as compared to the ecosystem issue.  Hunters have always stepped up and will continue to step up to fund wildlife projects that put the species best interests first, as opposed to letting bureaucrats fumble around trying to coddle the emotional ignorance of...well, every ignorant animal lover in this state and beyond.  As a national monument, it's a Federal concern and as as such, the emotional tidal wave of ignorance will demolish the WDFW if handled "incorrectly" (meaning allowing hunters to PAY the state for the FREE help and EFFECTIVE reduction of elk in critical areas). Pretty simple solution if anyone had the political BALLS to enact it.

Anyone remember the Olympic Peninsula goat issues and the public battle between the USFS and WDFW (flowers vs goats)?!  Meanwhile hunters were standing by with open wallets to PAY TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.  Well, that option didn't sit well with the public so it wasn't a viable option.  Pathetic waste of money resulting in something like $9,000 per goat for relocation.  Genius.  Hunters spent the same money in AK, B.C., CO to hunt goats.  Keep the money here or spend it out of state?  Political suicide or political clout?

[rock]

 

[kibber]

Well said. Being new to this site maybe you could point me in a direction to more involved.

[bobcat]

I've not seen anything official about the further expansion of wolves in Western WA.  I haven't looked either.

You might read WDFW's wolf management plan if you have time. Go to this page and click on the link in the upper right:  http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/mgmt_plan.html

[huntingfool7]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/alt2_summary.html

"Preferred Alternative"

[HntnFsh]

This leads to my other observation, I think the problem will resolve itself. Over the past couple years I have noticed less and less elk with the affliction than 2-3 years ago, yes I still see them but overall there are less of them. The biggest reason being hunter predation. The afflicted elk simply dont move as far or as fast as the healthy ones. Of the elk I have observed or seen killed with hoof rot all have appeared healthy in body size and weight, forage is plentiful and elk dont have to move alot to get adequate feed. They do to escape, or move distance in response to hunter pressure. So as the infected ( or defected) ones are harvested there is less and less spread.

I think your off the mark by a mile.Ive seen it to be more prevalent every year.Ive seen more elk than I care to count that are malnourished enough that they probably wont make it through the winter.Ive seen legal bulls with stunted horns that didnt even have the velvet rubbed off them.(also extremely malnourished)

Ive seen elk killed during hunting season that stunk so bad I wouldnt suggest anybody eat any part of it.

Ive seen it start in 1 small local area and spread for miles in every direction.I used to never see it east of I-5.Now I see a few cases every year.

Not every elk with hoof rot will be harvested.When I see herds with 40-50% infection rates.It tells me this is going to get much worse before it gets better.

Ive seen several elk that I would have shot,just to put out of their misery.If it werent for the ramifications.

[huntingfool7]

where are you seeing these huge 40-50% infection rates?

[Boss .300 winmag]

When farm animals get it you have to use antibiotics to get ride of it, or it gets worse and die from my experiance. It also can be spread from one animal to anthor from pens not being cleaned out and being in the muck all the time, it stays in the soil. Maybe the elk in the feed areas are passing it to each other?

[grundy53]

This leads to my other observation, I think the problem will resolve itself. Over the past couple years I have noticed less and less elk with the affliction than 2-3 years ago, yes I still see them but overall there are less of them. The biggest reason being hunter predation. The afflicted elk simply dont move as far or as fast as the healthy ones. Of the elk I have observed or seen killed with hoof rot all have appeared healthy in body size and weight, forage is plentiful and elk dont have to move alot to get adequate feed. They do to escape, or move distance in response to hunter pressure. So as the infected ( or defected) ones are harvested there is less and less spread.

I think your off the mark by a mile.Ive seen it to be more prevalent every year.Ive seen more elk than I care to count that are malnourished enough that they probably wont make it through the winter.Ive seen legal bulls with stunted horns that didnt even have the velvet rubbed off them.(also extremely malnourished)

Ive seen elk killed during hunting season that stunk so bad I wouldnt suggest anybody eat any part of it.

Ive seen it start in 1 small local area and spread for miles in every direction.I used to never see it east of I-5.Now I see a few cases every year.

Not every elk with hoof rot will be harvested.When I see herds with 40-50% infection rates.It tells me this is going to get much worse before it gets better.

Ive seen several elk that I would have shot,just to put out of their misery.If it werent for the ramifications.

[Buckrub]

Hoof rot is a lack of minerals in the animals diet, specifically zinc. It is contagious and will kill the entire herd. Mineral blocks can help but antibiotics and a clean environment is the answer.
Wolves are not the answer or alternative, wolves don't stop once the sick animals are culled from the herd.

The infected animals should be put down to stop the spread... easy enough with volunteers...but after watching the deer die from hair loss I doubt the wdfw will do anything but use it as an excuse to introduce wolves.

The low land elk live near people...you want to run wolves around Toledo / Winlock area?? cmon... wdfw could easily handle this with help from hunters and landowners.

I agree with bow4elk...no wolves

[HntnFsh]

where are you seeing these huge 40-50% infection rates?

Take a drive down S military rd sometime.Or check out the herds around Vader,Ryderwood.
Somebody said it was genetic.Wouldnt calves be born hoofless,with elf hoof or the like if it was genetic.Ive seen a few year old elk with it.But not calves.

I read an article last year that said there are over 40 different kinds of hoof rot.Back then they recomended not eating elk with hoof rot.A few weeks later they changed their stance and recomended removing the affected quarter.

Also if if hoof rot is a lack of minerals.How could it be contagious.A lack of minerals in their diet could make them more vulnerable but I would think thats about it.

Once again its probably one of many contributing factors.Also,if it was a lack of minerals,why didnt I ever see hoof rot 15 or 20 years ago.I wouldnt think those minerals just disapeared about the time elk stated getting hoof rot.

Ive talked to dairy,and goat farmers who had animals with it.They told me they inject antibiotics directly into the affected are.Sometimes it worked.Sometimes not.

I dont think anybody really knows what caused it.Where it came from.Or how to cure it.

[Buckrub]

Wikipedia explanation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_rot

[nontypical176]

Couple observations I made:  Last year a local Coweeman river herd had almost no hoof rot I could see, this year close to 70% had it and it was horrible in some of the elk.  Later this year I seen them again, and many of the elk that had the long elf like hooves seemed to be better than they were this summer.  All the cows that were infected this summer still had calves, and from what I seen this winter, the offspring look good.  My buddy shot one of these elk a 2 or 3 year old rag horn and it had hoof rot.  3 of his hooves were a little longer than normal and the other was a short little stub.  I helped him butcher that elk and the meat all looked and smelled good.

I come up with questions from observing this 30+ elk herd.  Why did the elk look so much healthier this fall/winter than they did during the summer?  What happened to the elk feet that were long and elf like?(I seen none this winter).  Do they break or rot off after they get so big?  Is that why my buddys elk had one stub hoof?  Somehow the elk live and thrive with this condition.  The heard I have been watching is seen by many people, gets hunted pretty hard, constantly gets chased by pet dogs, has a horrible case of hoof rot, is getting pushed around by new developements and yet the number of elk in this herd is strong.

Hoof rot is a miserable condition for sure, and its just my opinion, but to me the condition and the damage doesn't look permanent.  Elk are tough and infected elk can recover from what I've seen.

[grundy53]

Couple observations I made:  Last year a local Coweeman river herd had almost no hoof rot I could see, this year close to 70% had it and it was horrible in some of the elk.  Later this year I seen them again, and many of the elk that had the long elf like hooves seemed to be better than they were this summer.  All the cows that were infected this summer still had calves, and from what I seen this winter, the offspring look good.  My buddy shot one of these elk a 2 or 3 year old rag horn and it had hoof rot.  3 of his hooves were a little longer than normal and the other was a short little stub.  I helped him butcher that elk and the meat all looked and smelled good.

I come up with questions from observing this 30+ elk herd.  Why did the elk look so much healthier this fall/winter than they did during the summer?  What happened to the elk feet that were long and elf like?(I seen none this winter).  Do they break or rot off after they get so big?  Is that why my buddys elk had one stub hoof?  Somehow the elk live and thrive with this condition.  The heard I have been watching is seen by many people, gets hunted pretty hard, constantly gets chased by pet dogs, has a horrible case of hoof rot, is getting pushed around by new developements and yet the number of elk in this herd is strong.

Hoof rot is a miserable condition for sure, and its just my opinion, but to me the condition and the damage doesn't look permanent.  Elk are tough and infected elk can recover from what I've seen.

i've seen some killed where the whole hoof was rotted off, all they had was a stump. They also had the fever pretty bad and i wouldn't touch the meat. so while some might get over it i don't think all do. as far as the meat goes... it all depends on what stage of the sickness they are in. i don't think the meat is good when they are in the worst stage of it.

[nontypical176]

The stubbed hoof

[nontypical176]

All the hooves.  The meat looked, smelt and tastes good.  The bull had a slight limp. 

[grundy53]

The stubbed hoof

ya that doesn't look too bad. the really bad ones i saw didn't have any hoof left on the one leg it was nothing but a bloody nub and they were really sick looking.

[AKBowman]

If WDFW introduces wolves to the Willapa Hills I swear to god I will never pay another dime to hunt anything in WA state ever again.

That is IDIODIC. They will have to pay 100X the amount of $ to get the wolves out or even under control in less than 7 years. Everything will suffer INCLUDING eventually the wolves themselves and other predatory animals in the area. Deer and Elk will be pretty much iradicated. Hell there are enough cats in the area to take care of any culling necessary. The cats/yotes/bears are doing well enough to get it done, if that doesnt work get the master hunters out there to dispatch the effected animals.

WDFW cannot be seriously thinking about this can they?!?!?

[AKBowman]

Interesting info here.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01124/wdfw01124.pdf

I've been hunting the SW Corner of 506 four years straight now and have NEVER seen one single case of hoof rot. I know from reports there have been a few cases within 25 miles of where I hunt. Never heard anyone that hunts in the area of the unit even talk about seeing any cases.

[grundy53]

Interesting info here.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01124/wdfw01124.pdf

I've been hunting the SW Corner of 506 four years straight now and have NEVER seen one single case of hoof rot. I know from reports there have been a few cases within 25 miles of where I hunt. Never heard anyone that hunts in the area of the unit even talk about seeing any cases.

I know it's in the whole northern end of 506

[AKBowman]

Ive heard its in the N end of 506, never seen in in southern or midwestern side. Never seen or heard of it in BR unit either a little further west.
Wierd deal but wolves are surely not the answer. IMHO it has to be from the cross contamination of livestock.

[grundy53]

i think interducing wolves would be idiotic. I also think if they did that the wolves would be the most skidish creatures on earth. The willapa hills are not very remote and there isn't anywhere a human can't go. Most of the locals would have no qualms with managing the wolf population themselves and with little place to hide the wolves would be paranoid schizophrenics.....

[dlaw]

I saw an elk this year in the Winston GMU that had a white rear leg.  It was limping quite a bit and carrying that leg off the ground while walking.  I am not sure if it was hoof rot or not.  Does this sound like something that goes along with hoof rot? 
NO Wolves, they are not the answer for any wildlife management problems.

[dewandgin]

One of the cows we shot in the Toutle unit this year had Hoof Rot. She has been delicious