Question

[DoubleJ]

Question #1   You are out fall bear hunting.  You come across a bear that looks like it's gorging on berries or brush or whatever.  Doesn't matter, you can't see what it's eating.  You have a clear and ethical shot.  You take that shot and make a clean hit.  The bear runs off.  You go to the site of the shot to start the blood trail.  When you get there, you see a deer carcase, obviously what the bear was eating.  Unbeknownst to you, a WDFW officer watched the entire event unfold.  He meets you at the deer carcase and accuses you of baiting bear.

What now?



Question #2   You are in the "Coastal" region.  It's October 16th and modern firearm deer season is open as well as modern firearm cougar and bear.  You are in the 2nd day of a 2 week hunting excursion and you bag your deer.  You gut it, skin it, bone it out in the field and leave the carcase.  Since you're there for another week and a half, you decide to go predator hunting the next day.  Coyotes are obviously in season, you have a bear tag and a cougar tag in your pocket as well.  You come up to the site where you killed the deer the day before and find a bear feasting on the remains.  You had no intention of leaving the carcase in the woods to attract a bear, but it happened. 

Would it be considered baiting if you shot that bear?

[Caseyd]

You didnt put the deer there, so hows it baiting 

[DoubleJ]

You didnt put the deer there, so hows it baiting 

I agree, just wondering.  Now look at question #2 and give an opinion

[chrisb]

I think in either situation it would be tough to prove that you were baiting, especially if the officer didn't see you put the carcass there. Unfortunately i think the burden of proof would be on you not him.

[MP123]

Hmmm... I'll play.

In Question #1 if you saw the bear was eating the deer would you still take the shot?

How about Question #3: You find a dead deer in an area where you know there are bears but none are eating it at the moment.  Do you set up on it?  Would you set up on a nice blueberry patch and wait for a bear?

I guess to answer your questions I would probably consider your Q2 to be baiting since you left the gutpile there.  Probably not Q1 but that's just me.

[Ripper]

1. No that is not baiting, perfectly legal. Even if I saw the deer I'd still shoot.

2. Hmmm, good question, I don't know if it would be legal to shoot a bear or not. Better contact the game dept, I'll bet they say it's baiting.

3. Yes I'd hunt it. It wasn't placed there as bait, It's the same situation as question 1. No different than hunting a berry patch.

[adamR]

In both situations you could potentially argue with a warden and get away with it or argue with a warden and not get away with it... just depends on there mood
However,
question 1: nothing wrong with it at all, you had no idea the carcass was there and I would fight like crazy with the warden
question 2: Its all ethics, if you feel this is appropriate then that is how your perception of what is right and wrong works... to some people it is ok, to some it's wrong... nobody can tell you what is ethical because every person has different opinions of this, in my opinion, It's wrong and I couldn't take the shot

[TONTO]

  I don't see a problem in either case myself, ethics has nothing to do with it, legality yes, but not ethics. When it was legal, was baiting considered an ethical means of harvest different debate anyhow. As far as hunting over the gut pile, you didn't take the guts to the site intending to place them as bait, they would have been left regardless. It is a natural food sorce for many scavangers. I see nothing wrong with utilizing that natural sorce to your advantage. It's not like you took a box of glazed donuts out and watched them, or repetedly baited the same area to familarize the area to the bear.

 Question 4? You are hunting an upper watershed for deer, bear is still open. You notice that WDFW has placed surpluss salmon carks in the stream to boost the nutrient level. You also notice that something has dragged a salmon from the stream into the timber and covered it with fir needles.
 It looks suspiciously like it may have been a bear.
 Do you set up on the salmon cark and wait for Boo-Boo to return?

[CAMPMEAT]

No way to both questions. If a dairy company dumped off a dead cow or two and a bear was eating on it and you shot it, that's not baiting.

[Bob33]

That's easy. You didn't bait the bear.

"..."bait" means a substance placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, scattered, or otherwise used for the purpose of attracting black bears to an area where one or more persons hunt or intend to hunt them."

[huntnnw]

u legally can hunt over roadkill or even dead animal if ya find it..as long as u dont move it

[adamR]

That's easy. You didn't bait the bear.

"..."bait" means a substance placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, scattered, or otherwise used for the purpose of attracting black bears to an area where one or more persons hunt or intend to hunt them."

Yes but in question 2, you are the one that placed and scattered the remains of that deer and you do intend to hunt at that location, maybe not for bear originally but if thats what you see at the pile that you placed there to hunt at, you are bear baiting

[billythekidrock]

That's easy. You didn't bait the bear.

"..."bait" means a substance placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, scattered, or otherwise used for the purpose of attracting black bears to an area where one or more persons hunt or intend to hunt them."

Yes but in question 2, you are the one that placed and scattered the remains of that deer and you do intend to hunt at that location, maybe not for bear originally but if thats what you see at the pile that you placed there to hunt at, you are bear baiting

If you "scattered the remains" then you would be in violation.
 
If you gut your animal and do not move the guts then you are legal. If you move the guts then you are in trouble.

[ErikN]

If the officer knew there was a dead deer, he would probably be dealing with that to begin with. I don't think If they found a dead deer in the woods during deer season, they would stage a bear baiting sting operation from it, they would probably take the deer and do what they do.

[Biggerhammer]

I would shoot in both cases, worse case. A member of the bar standing beside you setting things straight in your behalf. May cost a couple bucks but if I feel I'm right, I'll go to the wall for it.

[D-Rock425]

#1 would not be baiting but I think without a doubt if you got caught shooting a bear over your own gut pile me game warden is not going to be happy with you.

[bentley30-06]

Both of these scenarios relate directly to natural predation, which states that the predators may or may not kill their prey prior to feeding on them and consuming them, and you would not be at fault for either since you did not drag the carcass to a desired hunting location, with the intentions of baiting a bear, and dispose of it.  If you had more than one carcass in there in the same place then you might find yourself in a little heat with the officer.  However, depending on your rap sheet, a truthful hunter should be able to successfully plead his case.  It is just a form of natural predation and is completely legal. I do often check my gutpile for any predators though......

[windygorge]

its funny how everyone breaks down and analyzes bear baiting.  baiting is a premeditated scenario for the purpose of killing a bear........hopefully a big one.   until it says in the regs that a carcass or any other natural occuring food source cannot be used to entice a bear for a shot, then by all means do it.  you are not making scheduled drops of glazed donuts, fat, bacon grease, bread and molassas.....oh im gettin hungry...to a site that you have designated as a "bait site".    quit psycho-analyzing everything.  if you don't think its legal, well then you are thinking too much.  plain and simple.......if it is not written down...word for word...THEN ITS LEGAL!!!!!!!   

[kbyers]

I think in either situation it would be tough to prove that you were baiting, especially if the officer didn't see you put the carcass there. Unfortunately i think the burden of proof would be on you not him.

The burden of proof is supposed to always be on the state.

This is similar to a duck hunting problem that we have.  Walla Walla river delta is a great place to hunt but due to a rule change a couple years ago have limited the area that we can "legally" hunt.  The area in in a natural fly way between 2 refuges.  There is also a grain elevator that is used to load barges.  3 years ago I think it was the regs changed and stated something to the effect of you must be a "reasonable" distance away.  Nothing specific give.  different LEOs enforce the regulation differently.

Thanks again Washington for another clear hunting regulation.

[OlympicElkJunkie]

In both situations you could potentially argue with a warden and get away with it or argue with a warden and not get away with it... just depends on there mood

As a rule of thumb, in dealing with any law enforcement officer, I would caution anyone against arguing with them. First of all, they are not there to judge the case, only to collect evidence against you. Secondly, anything you say can and will be used against you. He won't be looking for the merits in your argument, only the holes.

You generally only make legal arguments in front of a judge. The arguments on the side of a road or in the woods or in an interrogation room are never won.