Lack of nice bulls in Quality hunt areas

[Wenatcheejay]

yea you guys should stop talking about it so the wrong person doesnt read it an think its a good idea an make it their next goal in life 

What makes you think some people who post here don't have that agenda?

[Green Lantern]

Hey coweemanslayer I doubt your toutle five point was any more of a trophy than a spike. If you consider a five point a trophy than maybe you need to take your own advice.

[trophyhunt]

I know this will make people mad but I would like the entire state to go draw only with a few units at 5 point or better with no spikes taken.

Boy that would make the tribes very happy, way less non tribal guys in the woods to witness there slaughters.  My 2cents, Bad Idea.

[grundy53]

The problem I have with going to a 4 or five point minimum is identification. If you hunt the brush like I do then you know how frustrating this would be. Right now we have to tell (sometimes in a split second) if it's a spike or if it has an Eye guard and one fork above the ears. That is sometimes tough to do. I've had bulls that presented perfect shots but because their head was behind some vine maples or a big fir etc. I had to pass the shot. I could tell it had horns but I couldn't tell if it was legal. If you up the point requirements it will take a vastly longer time compared to what we do know. Depending on angle, size, vegetation, and so on. Success rate would go WAY down and the number of dead bulls left to rot would go WAY up. To me this would be a VERY poor Idea. There are already enough spikes left to rot every year. That number would go up infinitely. All this for very little difference in trophy production. This is saying nothing about the fact that about half of the bulls on the westside would never grow more then 4 points on either side no matter what was done to help. It would end up like the mulies in eastern Washington (Except on a MUCH larger scale). A bunch of large 2 points (4 points in this case) doing a large share of the breading and never getting weeded out of the gene pool. I'm sorry for the rambling response but I just think this is such a horrible Idea I can't even think straight. Sorry.

[nontypical176]

Another thing that happened in the Toutle and Margaret units....I only point out these 2 because its near where I live and the general units I hunt....is logging.  These units boomed with elk when the first humungus clearcuts were opened up and feed was plentiful.  There was a long time after these clearcuts grew up that didn't have the feed and were harder to hunt.  The highest elevations are still regrowing because they take longer, but they have started to clearcut again down low, not like they used to though.  Logging practices have changed and they don't just wipe out entire mountains.  This leaves a lot more area for elk to hide, but I suspect the numbers of big bulls in these units will start to climb again now that the some of the timber is being harvested.

The bull I took last year out of the Toutle unit was a 3x4 and I suspect atleast a 3 year old by body/horn size and looking at the 2 year old raghorns some of my friends shot in the general unit.  He had a dozen cows with him but looked like a scared elk after hearing my bugle.  The cows were more interested in coming to my bugle than he was.  I didn't have much time to hunt or I would have held out longer.  Pretty sure we'll start seeing more large bulls throughout the toutle/margaret.  Just my opinion.

I say make them both or atleast the toutle unit a general hunt 3 point or better.  The unit is huge and if it weren't for the darn mountain eruption it would probably still be in the general hunt category.  3 point or better for elk good, 4 point or better bad.  If a bull hasn't wised up by his second year, he deserves to be dinner.

[trophyhunt]

Isn't Quality hunt and Toutle an oxymoron? I've never seen a quality bull 350+ come out of the toutle or Mararet on this site or in person. My friends have hunted the winston unit for 30+ years and taken many bulls, nothing over 260. In fact some of the smallest 6 points I've ever seen and those elk are from the same gene pool.

[True Sportsman]

Spikes used to be 80%+ of what got shot when it was any bull on the west side, and they're the vast majority of what fill tags on the east side. . . .

I think it's just guys holding out for a good bull as long as they can stand with their 'quality' tag, then choosing to take some meat home. . . Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.  People are 'taking theirs' while they have drawn the tag regardless of size. They might think a little differently if they knew they'd be hunting it the next year or even in the next couple years, but the draw odds just don't allow that unless you're extremely lucky.

Also, you could argue they shouldn't shoot anything less than a good 5x5 if they truly wanted the bulls to get to trophy status.  Shooting them as spikes or first year branched bulls doesn't make a difference. 

The game department could easily increase the point restriction to 5 point and the quality would boom in a couple years. It would just suck for everyone who was drawing as the bulls grew for the year or two.  I don't think this would be a bad idea for permit areas where indians don't hunt.

I would love for them to change it to 5 point or better. I do see your point about spike or branched though. I guess I'm just tired of lazy road hunters on the westside of the state.

I road hunt for deer. Sometimes, I am really lazy. A couple years ago, I road hunted my ass off and shot a nice buck. I've road hunted for elk but haven't sealed the deal yet. It's only a matter of time before I dump one from the truck...

[hub]

I would like to see the state go to three point minimum for deer and elk on both the wet side and the east side. To me the game dept. is wasting my tax dollars managing hunters and not the game. I cannot believe that it is ok to draw a bull tag say in the 360 and be allowed to take a spike. Hunters that have a general tag should have dibbs on all the spikes every year. There odds would still be well below the odds for a branch antler animal for tag holders. There is plenty of back country for trophy hunters to go get the big ones. The east side season should be moved to start the 2nd week of november like it used to be so hunters have a better chance at catching a migration. All the road restrictions and closed gates on public land should be removed. The point system sucks and is worthless. Waiting 5 to 10 years to draw a quality tag is rediculous. I say open this state back up to hunters and the hunting tradition and stop all this tag draw stuff. Mange the game by reducing the length of the seasons when necessary due to low numbers. There is no way that spike only elk for the east side is necessary for more than three years in row. Too bad the game rich state of Wash. is ran by a bunch of anti hunting college educated anti hunting idiots. 

[Deer slayer]

Isn't Quality hunt and Toutle an oxymoron? I've never seen a quality bull 350+ come out of the toutle or Mararet on this site or in person. My friends have hunted the winston unit for 30+ years and taken many bulls, nothing over 260. In fact some of the smallest 6 points I've ever seen and those elk are from the same gene pool.

Roosevelt vs Rocky Mountains.  Not many 350 roosevelts walk the earth.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Also comparing Washington to "other" states, like Arizona is ridiculous,
 Washington is the third smallest state west of the Mississippi,
and Washington has 27 recognized Indian reservations totaling 2,250,731 acres.
Washington has 81,483 Indian tribal members.
.Arizona, among all the states, has the largest percentage of its land set aside and designated as Indian lands.
More than 19 million acres of land belongs to the twenty reservations and over 250000 Indian tribal members.
If the "natives owned half of Washington, you can bet that they would be managing the Elk population for revenue, and we all would be applying for permits, and paying access fees.

[Wenatcheejay]

Also comparing Washington to "other" states, like Arizona is ridiculous,
 Washington is the third smallest state west of the Mississippi,
and Washington has 27 recognized Indian reservations totaling 2,250,731 acres.
Washington has 81,483 Indian tribal members.
.Arizona, among all the states, has the largest percentage of its land set aside and designated as Indian lands.
More than 19 million acres of land belongs to the twenty reservations and over 250000 Indian tribal members.
If the "natives owned half of Washington, you can bet that they would be managing the Elk population for revenue, and we all would be applying for permits, and paying access fees.

Would it be a bad thing if Tribes Managed Game? What if they Managed it for Trophy hunts that Non-Tribal could participate? Would that be so bad? The more I look at it I have more values in line with them than I do with Olympia. I know it's a leap but when I look at the big picture, they are not the problem.

[Wenatcheejay]

The problem I have with going to a 4 or five point minimum is identification. If you hunt the brush like I do then you know how frustrating this would be. Right now we have to tell (sometimes in a split second) if it's a spike or if it has an Eye guard and one fork above the ears. That is sometimes tough to do. I've had bulls that presented perfect shots but because their head was behind some vine maples or a big fir etc. I had to pass the shot. I could tell it had horns but I couldn't tell if it was legal. If you up the point requirements it will take a vastly longer time compared to what we do know. Depending on angle, size, vegetation, and so on. Success rate would go WAY down and the number of dead bulls left to rot would go WAY up. To me this would be a VERY poor Idea. There are already enough spikes left to rot every year. That number would go up infinitely. All this for very little difference in trophy production. This is saying nothing about the fact that about half of the bulls on the westside would never grow more then 4 points on either side no matter what was done to help. It would end up like the mulies in eastern Washington (Except on a MUCH larger scale). A bunch of large 2 points (4 points in this case) doing a large share of the breading and never getting weeded out of the gene pool. I'm sorry for the rambling response but I just think this is such a horrible Idea I can't even think straight. Sorry.

[Kowsrule30]

I would like to see the state go to three point minimum for deer and elk on both the wet side and the east side. To me the game dept. is wasting my tax dollars managing hunters and not the game. I cannot believe that it is ok to draw a bull tag say in the 360 and be allowed to take a spike. Hunters that have a general tag should have dibbs on all the spikes every year. There odds would still be well below the odds for a branch antler animal for tag holders. There is plenty of back country for trophy hunters to go get the big ones. The east side season should be moved to start the 2nd week of november like it used to be so hunters have a better chance at catching a migration. All the road restrictions and closed gates on public land should be removed. The point system sucks and is worthless. Waiting 5 to 10 years to draw a quality tag is rediculous. I say open this state back up to hunters and the hunting tradition and stop all this tag draw stuff. Mange the game by reducing the length of the seasons when necessary due to low numbers. There is no way that spike only elk for the east side is necessary for more than three years in row. Too bad the game rich state of Wash. is ran by a bunch of anti hunting college educated anti hunting idiots.

Your're playing with gasoline...... Don't light the match!!!!!  There are road closures for a reason.... To protect habitat/the animals/ and get off your ass and hunt..... Some places are so roaded you'll be able to chase them from road to road while in between waiting for them to come back ..... Or another herd.... Do what you do....

[Crunchy]

I drew toutle quality bull tag this year and to me its a quality hunt, or should I say I hope it to be.  Quality bull is different for everyone.   A trophy elk for me will be a strong five by. What's makes it quality is the number of bulls to chase not the size.  Quality over most general archery units that aren't draw units.

[deerslyr]

trophy should be in the eyes of the beholder, like we have all heard before. If I drew the tag and hadnt shot anything by the last time I would wack a spike because I love elk meat and it would be a trophy to me because I knew I hunted hard all week and had an amazing experience and ended up coming home with some tasty elk meat.
And whats with all of the same guys STILL hating on road hunting? You act like you want everyone to get out of there truck and actually hunt, do you know how many people would be in the woods if that happened? I like to keep the woods the way they are now, ALL TO MYSELF. I dont understand how it could bother you one bit if you guys were actually out "roughin it" because youd never see the road hunters, the only time you'd see them is if you were out on the road yourself.