carry permits

[Caseyd]

Swatson, I have a question that you might be able to clarify for me. I have seen some ingenious handgun mounting options on a couple of the CPL and Handgun forums,  It would be nice to be able to remove my handgun from my IWB holster, and place it in a mounted holster with easy access when driving? I use a safe with a cable attached when not wearing it now, but I would really like to just mount an extra holster within reach.
 
I was confused if it was "legal" in Washington

As long as you have CPL.  I actually know someone that has mounted something similar on the right side of their steering wheel under the dash.  He was also himmed up by a rookie right out of the academy during a traffic stop until a senior Officer arrived and straightened things out.  Obviously this is a very complicated law and no matter how much they teach and pound these laws into the recruits at the academy there still gonna come out a little confused sometimes.  I would say that most cops are squared away on the gun laws and if they aren't or are in some doubt they will or at least should make damn sure before issuing a citation or hooking someone up.

Thank you,
Now I can get creative with a few of my extra holsters, LOL

Thats a great idea 

I do believe if you have passengers in the car then it has to be "on the person"  can someone clarify that

At least thats how ive always done it. By myself ill sometimes take it out of IWB but if I have passengers without permits I keep it on me. 

[Swatson]

No, your still okay with a passenger.

[Special T]

Your always doing something illegal! Either the cops choose not to enforce it, don't know the law, or there is some "other" enforcement agency that is suposed to come after you...
I have had many a conversation with a LEO about BS small infractions... They are used as a "Tool" so that they have probable cause to question you... Not to mention if you fail the "Attitude test" that tool becomes an infraction.

Here we go, everyones getting worked up!  Special T, first let me explain to you how this stuff works, I don't need Probable Cause(PC) to talk to anyone!  You need PC to arrest people not to talk to them.  PC means that more likely than not the person committed the crime(51%)  I can talk to anyone I want and thats their right if they choose to talk back!  Those BS small infractions aren't made by us, our job is enforce them.  I also get discretion on whether I educate or enforce on these "BS infractions."  If you don't agree with these violations take it up with the appropriate people!

I think i need to clarify a couple of things... First off i do my best not to have  negative contact with the Law... 2nd i NEVER fail the attitude test when talking to LEO's... It keeps me in the "Education" category, give a cop grief get a ticket... Say your yes Sirs and no Mams and you got a chance...
Let me tell you a real story... I was riding as a passenger in my brothers truck, it was late and we were headed back to his place in the Renton Highlands. Cop pulls us over because the cop felt that his mudflaps did not come to the center line of the axle. He got my brothers drivers lic and proof of insurance...while one officer was checkin on his info the other cop asked me for my id... Now it might be a reasonable request, but i thought we were pulled over for a BS reason so i said no. As you might imagine that got the cop all fired up as to why i didn't want to give him my id... I ended up giving him my ID in order to avoid my brother getting a ticket.. 

I have a buddy that drove an old Nissan PU. it has a 1 7/8 ball on the bumper that he used occasionally for hauling a small trailer. He was stopped by a cop for having an obstructed license plate On the way back from the gym. He was questioned for a bout 30 min then let go...

I guess my point is there are so many "small infractions" that are rarely cited, but of only 2 real uses. Punish people who fail the attitude test, or a reason to make a "contact"... I feel that a cop could spend his whole shift writing small infractions, because they don't bad laws are on the books, and laws are selectively enforced.

BTW i think Cops have a Crappy job, mainly because there are a lot of Jag off politicians that spend time writing bad laws. The last few nice days remind me of one, like ban on Floating the Nooksack river in Tubes. another bad law that LEOs "have to" enforce...

[Swatson]

Good post Special T.  I hear your frustration.  First, as of about a year go we cannot ask for the passengers ID any more for no reason.  As a cop this sucks!  As for you I guess its a good thing.  Used to make a lot of good arrests from this all the time.  Pull a car over and there's a turd sittin in the passenger seat.  You know he's either good for warrants or got dope on him so I'd get his ID and hope to get him on something.  Got a POS that had a Murder warrant this way once.  Thats good Police work in my mind and now that tool has been taken away from us.  This is only for our very liberal 9th circuit court!  I'm not sure what the solution to making everyone happy is or your solution but if we didn't do a little digging at times and not make all these traffic stops we wouldn't be arresting half these *censored* bags and they'd be running around in our communities doing what they do best.  As for your BS laws I can't tell you how many times I've tried running a plate but couldn't because of the ball.  Do I make those stops sometimes yes, do I write tickets for that no.  As far as the mud flaps goes...hahahaha I used to get pulled over weekly when I was a kid and didn't have the proper mud flaps on my jacked up yota so I can relate.     

[pianoman9701]

Good post Special T.  I hear your frustration.  First, as of about a year go we cannot ask for the passengers ID any more for no reason.  As a cop this sucks!  As for you I guess its a good thing.  Used to make a lot of good arrests from this all the time.  Pull a car over and there's a turd sittin in the passenger seat.  You know he's either good for warrants or got dope on him so I'd get his ID and hope to get him on something.  Got a POS that had a Murder warrant this way once.  Thats good Police work in my mind and now that tool has been taken away from us.  This is only for our very liberal 9th circuit court!  I'm not sure what the solution to making everyone happy is or your solution but if we didn't do a little digging at times and not make all these traffic stops we wouldn't be arresting half these *censored* bags and they'd be running around in our communities doing what they do best.  As for your BS laws I can't tell you how many times I've tried running a plate but couldn't because of the ball.  Do I make those stops sometimes yes, do I write tickets for that no.  As far as the mud flaps goes...hahahaha I used to get pulled over weekly when I was a kid and didn't have the proper mud flaps on my jacked up yota so I can relate.   

Isn't the ruling that the passenger isn't required to give you the ID if you ask? Meaning that you can ask, but if they know their rights, they don't have to agree. It sounds a lot to me like it's a 4th Amendment issue. Although I have no problem with LE and cooperate fully with them (and, I value them), the safety net that the 4th Amendment provides is essential. You may well miss an opportunity to bag a real bad guy because of this ruling, but the potential for abuse to the general population is always the top concern.

[Special T]

Swatson... You just confirmed what i was saying... "Thats good Police work in my mind and now that tool has been taken away from us."  I believe that you Leo's would need less tools if we had bigger jails!  my record is a clean as the wind driven snow, but it still bothers me.. Your not the only LEO that has talked about the various "tools" out there for them to use... You see my main beef is the revolving door at the court house... Lots of POS are regulars and have a rap sheet several pages long.
Most "Infractions" use $$$ fines to modify behavior... They substitue time in jail for money. I beleive its percieved that it is more cost effective. So lets say i get some BS infration... I have an personal example... I was driving N on I5 in lane 2 ans some A$$hat in lane 1 dropps his CD, Hat, Crackpipe, whatever and drifts onto the shoulder. When this genious hits the rumble strip he jerks the wheel and sends his geo metro perpendicular to traffic. I'm towing a heavy ass trailers, so as i see this waste of oxygen driff off the road i down shift. As he jerks his wheel I brake. As he tries to kill himself by putting his drivers door into my big ass truck and trialer i change into lane 3 sparing his worthless life, pushing his tire to his engine block...  In the rush to clear the scene by Staters i recieve a ticket for failing to avoid an accedent. The waste of oxygen has no  insurance of course....  Now i'm faced with paying the fine  which is about 200 bucks plus the increases in mycompany insurance, which will hit me much harder...  Because it is in SnoHo county i spend a whole day fighting the ticket...
The state equates time as $$$ for punishment... Well the ticked got kicked out so i didn't have it on my insurance or have to pay the $200... BUT my time is worth something right? I had to take time away from my work... So i am punished also...  If you agree that time is money and the reverse is true then ANY contact with a LEO is bad contact for law abiding Citizen UNLESS its to fill out paperwork for insurance.
So i hate "Tools" of the trade becuse we imflict damages on good people with tools, and let bad people reoffend over and over, creating a need for cops tools. 
I have friends that are LEO's and have family friends that are/were. 99% of cops are great people but I DON"T WANT TO SEE THEM WHILE THEY ARE WORKING! 

[7mag.]

"Don't ask a cop, they have no idea what the laws actually are."

Wow 7 Mag!!!!  Your right we just do a lot of guess work in this business!  Thats sarcasm and I'm hoping that was some sarcasm from you because if that was the case and making all these unlawful arrests I'd probably lose my job real quick!  On the upside, 7 Mag is correct in his responses!  Quit poppin off, we don't need anymore booger eaters on this site!

I think you took my comment the wrong way. I have the utmost respect for LEO's and what they do for our communities. I didn't mean to offend anyone, but the simlpe fact is, that I have asked many questions of many different officers regarding concealed carry and open carry and I have recieved many different answers. This is leads me to believe that many officers do not know all the laws that they are asked to enforce. I don't blame the officers, they aren't recquired to attend law school, or any thing that in depth, but the fact remains.

I have had officers tell me that I can not carry concealed ever, without a CCP, and I have also been told by an officer that open carry is illegal in this state. Both untrue.

So it is reasonable for me to assume that many officers don't know all the laws, and also to assume that no officers know all the laws, so I do not rely on them for information.

As far as eating boogers.....what I do with my boogers is my business......unless you arrest me, then I promise not to wipe them on the back of your seat.

[Jburke]

I know of a few people who have gotten a ticket for carrying concealed while hunting with no permit.  That being said it sounds like it is legal to do so from the verbage you have provided. Personally I have been stopped/talked by many sheriffs from many counties and none have ever asked to see my conceal permit even when it is obvious I am carrying. This doesn't prove anything either way, Just want to put this out there.

My  get the permit its not expensive and will save you the hassle, its great to ask for opinions on a board like this but make sure to always seek professional advice when something is of importance.

Just last year when I was elk hunting and we drove by a game warden that had setp up and was checking people driving down the road.  He checked our rifles but even after we all told him that we were all carrying loaded pistols on our hips he didn't even bother checking them.  Some know the laws and wont hassle you over things you know are correct.  Even if you know you're rigth I would not suggest arguing with any law enforcement about it.  It's easier to have the permit and not use it often.  I have had mine since I turned 21.  Do I carry everyday?  Not even close, but occasionally I do.  I can't carry while working so that leaves me just a couple of days a week I could possibly carry.  Even then it's not an everyday thing for me.

[Special T]

A right not used is a right lost!. People that avoid open carry for convenience are doing themselves and others a disservice. If people don't see polite clean cut citizens with openly displayed guns they will have a skewed view of gun owners.

[Rhinoron247]

A right not used is a right !

[KillBilly]

If you carry a loaded pistol in your back pack, i believe you would be in violation whether you had a permit or not.  Just like if you have a loaded pistol in your car and it is not on your person when you are in the car(can not be tucked between your leg and seat), you would be in violation.  Besides it don't do any good in your back pack if you need it.

 

That is untrue. It does not have to be "on your person". It can be under your seat, or on the seat next to you, or in the glove box. You can carry it in your backpack, or purse, or fanny pack. There is a lot of misinformation on concealed carry out there. Believe it or not, Washington is one of the most lax states concerning concealed carry. Don't ask a cop, they have no idea what the laws actually are.

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.