Hunter Education changes

[Rob]

Then if you are not able to influence the State's point of view on this, it sounds like you are making a wise decision to opt out of the program.

[ghosthunter]

Then if you are not able to influence the State's point of view on this, it sounds like you are making a wise decision to opt out of the program.

Anyone who thinks that they are going to influence the state is mistaken. I think orange guns are a done deal. I think some instructors might complain but it is fact now. And I do not see it changing. I will wait to here the whole works at IST. But as it looks now, I think I am out.

Dan is coming up on the 26th to talk to me. But unless they have some plan on how I bring in other than orange guns in than my last class is in progress.

[Brownarola]

You are missing the obvious. The state simply says no functional firearms in the classroom. So instead of teaching every single night of instruction in the classroom head out of the classroom to the great outdoors or to the range and teach firearms there. Impossible? Actually no. If you look at HE requirements, there is no reason why everything in the book could not be taught on the range. Instead of reading the book to the students and showing movies, go to the field and teach them about the various firearms and let them practice out on the range. I do realize that there are instructors who live in the city so take the students to the range before the range evaluation and let them shoot the firearms.

What I really wanted to see while I was teaching was a hybrid course comprising of online content that students take care of in their spare time with live firearm handling outside or on the range. If you look at the modern classrooms, teachers are having students post blogs / reflections about what they learned online and then respond to each others posts in a tactful manner. Teachers are also assigning out of class assignments so that when students are in the class, instructors can use this time for hands on exercises and learning scenarios. You can do the same thing and still meet the state requirements.

[Brownarola]

But for the youth of our state, I see danger ahead.  A computer is a lifeless thing.  Real passionate teaching comes from something with a soul.  Many kids come to class with baggage in regards to the men in their life.  There’s a barrier to learning if Dad is the sole teacher beyond a glorified biology film in the form of e-Learning.  When an experienced hunter stands before them, gray-haired and dressed in hunter orange, you generally have their attention and without barriers.  My hair isn’t gray yet, not through lack of trying, but I know I have their undivided attention when I tell the story of Pamela Almi.  I put up a picture of her and her grandchild on the projector and I tell the story of her tragic death. I ask them to think of their own grandmothers.  I ask them to imagine themselves the young boy behind the trigger violating several of the cardinal rules of firearm safety, and then depriving a child of their grandmother.  The tears in their eyes prove that I have them.  I’d like to see a computer program do that.

I'm glad you actually use mulit-media in your classroom and it's great that you tell stories about what can happen when someone does not follow a safety rule but this is still lecture. Instead of telling them about Pam Almli tie this into the causes of hunting accidents. When a student must make a choice and then face the consequence of that choice they definitely remember it. 

In regards to computers being a mindless tool; you are right they are mindless but if you want to go anywhere or do anything you had better know how to operate one. In a recent study over 89% of households have one and kids definitely know how to use them.  If online course content is properly built and taught by a live instructor, not only is online education effective but it's also very engaging. You may scoff at this notion but many students are more inclined to share their honest opinions when sitting in front of a computer screen as opposed to staring down at an instructor. Many students feel safe behind a computer monitor and thus you are able to get a more clear idea of the student's thoughts when they post to a forum.
 
Granted not everyone will agree with this point of view and I respect that and for you hunter ed instructors still in the trenches I wish to thank you for providing a badly needed service to our communities.

[ghosthunter]

 dont tell them a thing about Pamela or Terry Hoffer. At the very first clas I assign it as home work. The next class they tell me.

[Brownarola]

GH -- have you ever had your students write a 1/2 page essay telling you why they are taking hunter ed. It's a great first day assignment and you would be blown away by some of the responses. Another thing I use to do was have them make a survival kit out of an altoid tin that they would show case on the night of the written test. What I had wanted to do was take students out to the range the first couples nights and have them build a fire from scratch with still wool and a battery and create a small campsite with materials that you give them that they could use for survival. Then on the second range night bring out the firearms and take turns demonstrating the various actions and then picking a student to do a test fire. That's what I mean when I talk about letting students build their own knowledge. Anyway just giving you some ideas that worked for me.

[Brownarola]

I've seen it and it's not the kind of online instruction I am talking about. What I am referring to is a course taught with the use of what is termed a LMS or learning Management System such as Blackboard that requires students to do assignments that are graded by what is termed a ruberic. Courses taught in this fashion actually are a lot of fun and they are honestly meant for teens and adults since the workload is not easy. Of course kids could attend but again think of it like a traditional class only online with questions and answers being thrown into a forum. This type of course is instructor led and the coolest thing about it is that anyone across the state could attend. The only question would be piloting this first course. Once a template was designed and implemented, it could be easily shared with other instructors  who could teach their own online course. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to create an assignment and then let the students go to work and see what they come up with? Case in point, we talk about conservation. One assignment may be to make a post about the five elements of habitat and explain why each is important to wildlife. Make the post no more than x number of words and make the students respond to at least two posts made by other students. You will be blown away with the answers students will give you. Again this may sound complicated but as a e-learning developer and online instructor, I can tell you it's not that hard to accomplish and content I create can be shared with others. Talk about engaging your students and the best part is you are not doing the teaching. You are guiding your students through the learning process. There are different types of online learning methods for to teach hunter ed and I personally feel an instructor must be leading the course for the training to be meaningful. Once the student completes the course my thought would be to have them take the traditional hunter ed course and then attend a range event to verify their skills. 

Not to be the devils advocate but I can see why this may not work. You would not want underage students being contacted by adult students so that's probably one main reason the self paced online course was chosen by so many states.  Plus the state was simply responding to the pressure of the public wanting an alternative method to the traditional hunter ed course. Lives are busy and face paced and it's easier for them to take the course when they have time as opposed to hunting down a local course.

[Stickerbush]

So I have been emailing the instructor for a hunter ed course, as I plan to take my brother and sister to it in March. He said they use pellet guns for the field day. I asked him if they dont use live ammo because of the new regulations but I think its just due to the fact that they only have a pellet gun range. He never answered me as far as the new regulations, I will just ask him in person.

It is kinda a shame but I have been taking them shooting enough and I figure they will get enough exposure to it that way.

[Bob33]

So I have been emailing the instructor for a hunter ed course, as I plan to take my brother and sister to it in March. He said they use pellet guns for the field day. I asked him if they dont use live ammo because of the new regulations but I think its just due to the fact that they only have a pellet gun range. He never answered me as far as the new regulations, I will just ask him in person.

It is kinda a shame but I have been taking them shooting enough and I figure they will get enough exposure to it that way.

If they are currently using pellet guns it would have nothing to do with policy.  I suspect they use them only because they have no alternative.  Some classes have no live-fire capabilities at all.

[rjn cajun]

I`m not a regular poster but this topic has caught my eye. I just enrolled my two oldest daughtersand for some crazy reason thought it would be the same as when I took it years ago. Why do they have to screw with the things that aren`t broke? This is my two cents but I don`t think an online class should even be an option. The whole reason for the class is the hands on experience with a teacher/instructor. I`ve taught my kids all that I have learned and know and maybe an instructor can teach them something else. I`m also not in favor of guns that don`t fire or not having a fireing aspect of the class. When I took it it was part of the class shooting. Now my #1 concern is the few instructors thinking about leaving and not teaching anymore. You guys are what keeps the youth involved and passing it on. If you aren`t teaching then who is computers,phone apps or individuals who really don`t care? Just my 2 cents sorry for rambling.

[ghosthunter]

I`m not a regular poster but this topic has caught my eye. I just enrolled my two oldest daughtersand for some crazy reason thought it would be the same as when I took it years ago. Why do they have to screw with the things that aren`t broke? This is my two cents but I don`t think an online class should even be an option. The whole reason for the class is the hands on experience with a teacher/instructor. I`ve taught my kids all that I have learned and know and maybe an instructor can teach them something else. I`m also not in favor of guns that don`t fire or not having a fireing aspect of the class. When I took it it was part of the class shooting. Now my #1 concern is the few instructors thinking about leaving and not teaching anymore. You guys are what keeps the youth involved and passing it on. If you aren`t teaching then who is computers,phone apps or individuals who really don`t care? Just my 2 cents sorry for rambling.

[Brownarola]

I`m not a regular poster but this topic has caught my eye. I just enrolled my two oldest daughtersand for some crazy reason thought it would be the same as when I took it years ago. Why do they have to screw with the things that aren`t broke? This is my two cents but I don`t think an online class should even be an option. The whole reason for the class is the hands on experience with a teacher/instructor. I`ve taught my kids all that I have learned and know and maybe an instructor can teach them something else. I`m also not in favor of guns that don`t fire or not having a fireing aspect of the class. When I took it it was part of the class shooting. Now my #1 concern is the few instructors thinking about leaving and not teaching anymore. You guys are what keeps the youth involved and passing it on. If you aren`t teaching then who is computers,phone apps or individuals who really don`t care? Just my 2 cents sorry for rambling.

rjn cajun, times are changing. A lot of things that were once only available in a classroom are now available online. After teaching hunter education for a few years I can tell you there were times when the parents actually knew more about some of the particular firearms than I did and I was not afraid to admit it. Don't be too quick to knock the online course and your own personal knowledge of firearm safety. The online course simply presents all the materials that the traditional courses do with the only noticeable difference is the hands on training with the various firearm actions which btw does not have to be done in a classroom; it can be done at home. 

To get a really good idea of all the actions do a search of YouTube and look up firearm actions. Next go out and purchase some snap-caps for your firearms.  Now watch the video and practice using the various actions.  Prior to the Internet I would have had to agree with you that kids need to be in a hunter ed course. However I also have to say I did evaluate online students and the one thing I discovered was that the course room time could be done online but the firearm portion had to be practiced at home and then evaluated on range.   To get students prepared for the range I drafted a simple guide that explained everything that would be tested on the range day. I had a little trial and error, but once I got the right formula, not only were students showing up to the range day ready to accept the challenge, but they actually, in my honest opinion these students were safer with handling firearms than some students who had went through my traditional 5 day course. One thing I liked about the online course is that it forced parents to become involved in the learning process of their student. Instead of a complete stranger teaching them about firearm safety, it was their family member who taught them.

I think the real question is can the online program be improved to be equal or better to a traditional classroom course? I personally think an online course weather led by an instructor or self paced can be just as engaging and informative as a traditional course but IMHO the true test of handling a firearm safely must be done by a Hunter Ed instructor and it's up to the parent to continue to work with their child after the course to build on what was learned in the class.

BTW - these are just my opinions and I mean no disrespect to current hunter education instructors and I want to thank you current instructors for VOLUNTEERING your time to teach our families how to handle firearms safely.

[ghosthunter]

I have a question?

If a student brought a loaded handgun to your class. What would you do?

You have already instructed the students and parents that there can be no guns or ammo brought into class.

[Special T]

What is he had a CC permit?

[ghosthunter]

No cpl
No law enforcement.