Rocky vs Rosie?

[Whitenuckles]

 This Q has most likely been on here a billion times but Im still wondering. Before reading I just want to say sorry for my ignorance. So while hunting the Winston this year, I was wondering what kind of elk they were. They looked tike your typical Rosie to me, but surprisingly everyone I talked to had a different answer.

 So my question is... Where are the boundries when it comes to the different species? Some people told me Rosies only live on the olympic penn. But I know for a fact that they are in Oregon also. Where are the dividing lines in the state, if there are any? And do the ever inner mix " Hybrid"?

[frostman]

It has been determined that the North American elk are all the same creature that have evolved different characteristics based on their their environment.

The dividing line for the record books is I-5.

There was never really any elk populations in the cascade mtns prior to the whites settling the timberlands on the east and the west side of the cascades. Elk were brought by railcar from Yellowstone into various drainages to assist in pasture grazing and forest clearing. They took to the clearcut areas and adapted very well.

There is no doubt that Roosies and Rocky's interbreed.

[B.G.hunter]

I have wondered the some of the same things.    Does Boone and Crockett or somebody have book on this?

[Whitenuckles]

I have wondered the some of the same things.    Does Boone and Crockett or somebody have book on this?

I was wondering the same thing. Is there a book on it? Or a map or something?

And if the elk on the west slopes of the cascades are all from yellowstone genetics, why dont the share the same characteristics. Like antler and body size?

[dreamunelk]

Because of the introduction of Rocky mountain elk.  Elk on SW WA and west cascade are considered a mix of Roseys and Rockys.  The entire Rainier elk herd is believed to be Rocky, but there was likely remnant Roseys that once protected rebounded.   Elk West of I-5 are most likely to be mostly Rosie with maybe a little Rockey.  Some releases of Rockies occured but, unkown how they did and there where reports of farmers shooting on site.  Elk were captured as calves from the Elwah, Hoh, and Quinault and release in North River and Willapa Valey.  Elk on the O.P. are 100% Rosey.

Yes, there were elk in the Western Cascades Pre White arrival.   This has been document through archeology.

Yes there is a good book call "North American Elk: Ecology and Management".  However, it will not answer all your questions.  you will need to understand evolution.

Honestly to explain the whole story would takes hours to write.   If you were looking at an elk in the Winston unit you where looking at a Rocky/Rosie mix.  Very few people can look at it and provide an educated opinion.  In that area no one who works with elk would say that it is one or the other.  That would take DNA testing and even then there would be questions.

[Cylvertip]

Elk from I-5 east to the Pac Crest Trail are often refered to/ considered Cascade Roosevelts - denoting their hybrid background - NW Big Game list's them this way in their book

[Alchase]

All the Rocky mountain elk in Washington state were wiped out prior to 1855 (the last Rocky was taken that year). There was still a thriving herd of Roosevelt's on the Olympic Peninsula and a smaller herd in the Ilwaco region. The Olympic herd was used in the early 1920s to reintroduce elk to the islands of Alaska.
In 1913 a group of landowners, sportsmen and Yakima County officials introduced Rocky Mountain elk from Yellowstone National Park to the Yakima area of eastern Washington. There were many follow on reintroductions over the next 40 years.
I do not know of any Roosevelt elk reintroductions done on the East side of the Cascade Range. The anthropologic range of the Rocky mountain elk in Washington was limited to the south eastern corner of the state, prior to the elimination and subsequent reintroduction 58 years later.

[Alchase]

More info

Historic Distribution
The portion of the herd area that lies west of the Cascade Crest is within the original range of the
Roosevelt subspecies of North American elk (Cervus elaphus roosevelti). Within this area,
however, elk were not evenly distributed. Given the nature of the original habitat (largely
unbroken stands of dense forests), it is likely that elk were sparse or absent over large areas,
tending to concentrate along riparian zones and near disturbed sites, such as fire seres and other
natural openings. Following the arrival of settlers in the early 1800s, elk populations were
largely extirpated from much of the range of the Mount St. Helens herd.
Releases of Rocky Mountain elk (C. e. nelsoni) relocated from Yellowstone National Park
occurred at various times and locations throughout western Washington in the early 1900s.
Records from 1939 document the releases of 50 elk in 1913 along the Naches River in Yakima
County. An additional release of 30 elk from Montana near Eatonville in 1932 may have also
contributed to the Mount St. Helens herd. However, small herds of elk reported in the early
1930s near Spirit Lake in Skamania County are thought to represent remnant populations of
indigenous Roosevelt elk that survived there due to the inaccessibility of the area (Pautzke et al.
1939). WDFW analyzed over 100 elk samples from the St. Helens herd using a microsatellite
DNA assay. The results from this study indicated that individuals from the eastern portion of
the herd were Rocky Mountain elk, and, for the most part, individuals from the western and
central GMUs were predominately Roosevelt elk, although there was a scattering of both
Roosevelt and Rocky Mountain elk on the southern and northern parts of the herd. Using
statistical analyses of these data, we also identified several individuals within the St. Helens
herd as Rocky Mountain/Roosevelt hybrids. The Roosevelt elk recognized within the St.
Helen's herd are more genetically similar to the elk from the Willapa Hills Herd than the
Olympic Herd.