90 yard bow kill on a cow

[wraithen]

Me personally, I don't get why guys aren't shooting more often anyway. I've already shot a thousand rounds through a rifle I bought a month ago. Granted I can do this because I stick to surplus calibers so I can plink to get better and then use the cheaper match grade stuff to really see how I'm doing. I just don't get people who just verify their zero (it hits the paper at 50 yards!) once a year. It's a perishable skill that needs a little attention but it's also a blast. I do understand lack of facilities tho and that just sucks. But why not practice your bow out to 100 yards? Or even further? Then you won't be hoping your arrow hits the mark, you'll be knowing that because you put in the time, your arrow will hit where you want it to. I'm a horrible shot IMHO with my rifle right now but I demand better groups out of myself before I get out to farther distances. Can someone explain to me why so many people think its a chore to practice marksmanship with all the weapons they use?

[colockumelk]

and my Mathews bow is so fast with a WASP they usually die before the arrow arrives hahahahahahahahahahahaaha

    I was wondering when you were gonna finally stand up for your sub-par equipment 


Actually the doe I mentioned was a mule deer doe, which is why it took me by surprise.  If it had been a white tail doe I probably wouldn't have shot at her.

As far as distances being unethical goes here's my final take.  Its not so much the distance that makes the shot more or less unethical its two factors.  The biggest is the skill level and preparation of the shooter.  For some people a 100yd shot with a scoped rifle is unethical, where for some a 500yd shot is a chip shot.  The next item that begins to increase the risk (make it more unethical) is the time of flight, of the projectile which gives the animal more time to move.

I don't think people should look at a distance as black or white (unethical vs ethical) rather I think people should look at it as starting at 0feet its 100% white and then the farther out you go the shade starts getting a little bit darker until at a certain distance its black.  Now how fast that shade begins to darken is based on the shooters skill level and preparation and the conditions  of the shot. 

[FC]

My chief complaint here is the time in flight, I've known a few really great shots in my life and none of them would consider a shot at a big game animal at more than 4-500 yards either, too much time for something to go wrong.

90 yard and greater shooting with a bow? That is one unlucky critter to get hit with that shot! It's also one very lucky hunter that didn't get stuck tracking a wounded animal for a couple of days...

Biggerhammer, varmint hunting (such as rockchucks) doesn't really even compare, if you hit one you are going to do enough damage that it will die pretty quickly with almost no exceptions.

[Biggerhammer]

My last WA buck I shot at 390yds.  I shot a doe at 25 yds with my bow last weekend.  I got way more of a rush out of shooting that doe than I did with that buck.  To me my buck was about as thrilling or challenging as going to the range and shooting long distances.   

390 yards is a chip shot, I don't buy the unethical BS. there are some that can do it and some that can't. I spend allot of time on the local ranges 300, 600 and 1000 yards Etc. Along with allot of rounds fired from the prone at extended ranges on private properties I shoot on. Thousands of round a year, it's my hobby. You could say my addiction. Ballistic golf in a sense, always striving for that perfect group, the perfect wind call. First round cold bore solid hits at extended ranges. I do my time because that's what I like to do.

I seldom see 3-4 People at the most on the ranges throughout the year but right before the season a flood of hunters arrive, fresh box of factory cartridges in hand and a dusty rifle and for the most part the groups at 100 and 200 are comical to say the least for the general group. There are those that can shoot. The majority shouldn't be shooting at anything over 200 yards, let alone 300 or 400+. the same goes for the archery guys.  It's all personal skill level, I know for a fact that if a Mulie takes a step as the trigger breaks at 400 yards you can be 10 or so inches off, it's happened to me. I had enough rifle though that even with the rear double lung hit, it knocked him down right where he stood. You take the same risk with your 390 yard rifle shot as he took with his 90 yards archery shot.

I have shot them a hell of allot further out and will cotinue to do so, if I can use the same rifle for my 600 yard Mulie shot as I did to take 176 Rockchucks that same year with. Than I am comfortable with my skill level and that rifle but as argued earlier, the animal can still move and the extended flight time risk. I'm still going to take that shot so I may be " Unethical " but it has worked for me so far and I will continue to do the same because it's worked for me.

Ah, the i'm better than the average hunter post.   I'm more dedicated.  Those 390's are chip shots.  I shoot thousands of rounds a year on private property.  600yd mule deer.  176 rockchucks.  I dedicate my life to it.. blah bahahba.  You should get together with Paul Ambrose, the 90yd archer.   You guys would really hit it off.  He's killed hundreds of deer at over 50yds and never lost a single one (eventhough he's not even in his 30's)  He used to post reams of pages on long range archery.  He shoots thousands upon thousands of arrows a year; most archers he sees show up at the bow range only a couple of weeks before the season, he's a Hoyt sponsored black hoodie wearning prostaffer with a tatoo and lots of stickers on his truck to prove his superiority over the 'average' hunters who shoot their lowly Mathews bows.

Like I said TURBO, some can do it and some can't. Stick to what your capable of there hotrod.

[Biggerhammer]

My chief complaint here is the time in flight, I've known a few really great shots in my life and none of them would consider a shot at a big game animal at more than 4-500 yards either, too much time for something to go wrong.

90 yard and greater shooting with a bow? That is one unlucky critter to get hit with that shot! It's also one very lucky hunter that didn't get stuck tracking a wounded animal for a couple of days...

Biggerhammer, varmint hunting (such as rockchucks) doesn't really even compare, if you hit one you are going to do enough damage that it will die pretty quickly with almost no exceptions.

Actualy it does compare, if one is capable of consistent hits and wind calls and has the equipment and expirience to make hits on rockchucks and prairie dogs at extended distances . A mule deer is a MONSTER TARGET! With a bullseye the size of Satern at 600 yards. It's all math ladies!

[deerslyr]

you guys completely missed my point. FOR ME AND MY SKILL SET a 390 yard shot is unethical. Im not a good enough shot to pull it off every time. For some one else who shoots at that distance and consistently hits the target its perfectly ethical. YOU GUYS THINK THERE IS ONE SET OF ETHICS AND YOUR WRONG. It differs from person to person based on there skill sets. My marksman ship isnt good enought to shoot game out at 400 yards and my archery skills arent good enough to take farther than 50 yard shots so there fore its unethical for me, but that doesnt mean people who practice at that range all the time and are consistent are unethical. Hell I dont care if you hunt out to a thousand yards as long as your consistent and dont lose animals, its not my style of hunting but those who have the skills and enjoy to hunt that way have at it. Id prefer to have a bugling bull in face with a bow in my hand but others would rather hunt long range. So to each there own. Quit trying to place your ethics on some one you dont even know, it varys from one person to another, I dont know how many times I have to say it.

[Biggerhammer]

I agree, I don't push my ethics on anyone or judge theirs and in return all I ask is that they don't stand on a box and push theirs on me. I don't care if they make a 140 yard shot on a elk with a bow, that's their deal and none of my business. My hunt doesn't change, life goes on the same for me.

[BOWHUNTER45]

Damn took to long of a nap  No sense in cutting down someones ability to drop sheet at longer distances ... most serious varmit shooters are good shots and thats because they have shot 1000s of rounds at different ranges and know there weapons and what they can do with them ...Same with a bow ...The only reason I love bowhunting so much is being able to get as close as I can to the animals I am hunting .....with my bow I love gettin close but with my rifle I need to have them out ther alittle ways just for my own satifaction ....but nothen beats bow hunting for me because there is way more to it than hunting with a rifle ...From shooting to tracking to recovery ....way more exciting than just squeezing a trigger and watching something flop over dead...Just like the buck I killed this year ...yes I hunted hard but once I saw him it was BANG hE HITS THE DIRT story over .... I would of rather watched him run off with an arrow threw him that way I would of had another 30 min. of suspense into my hunt   

[FC]

Actualy it does compare, if one is capable of consistent hits and wind calls and has the equipment and expirience to make hits on rockchucks and prairie dogs at extended distances . A mule deer is a MONSTER TARGET! With a bullseye the size of Satern at 600 yards. It's all math ladies!

The biggest difference is that a bad hit on a rockchuck is still going to be immediately (or nearly) fatal where a bad shot on a deer or elk will have it off and running.

[colockumelk]

My biggest point of contention is if your going to use Wasp broadheads then anything past 20yds is completely unethical. Those broadheads can barely cut butter let alone go through an elk.
    Don't use these heads unless your squirrel hunting

[wraithen]

Actualy it does compare, if one is capable of consistent hits and wind calls and has the equipment and expirience to make hits on rockchucks and prairie dogs at extended distances . A mule deer is a MONSTER TARGET! With a bullseye the size of Satern at 600 yards. It's all math ladies!

The biggest difference is that a bad hit on a rockchuck is still going to be immediately (or nearly) fatal where a bad shot on a deer or elk will have it off and running.

Yeah but a p dog sticking up halfway in its hole is about the same size target as a kill zone on a small coyote.

[Alaska316]

I support Paul's shot. I have hunted with him and know that he has the skill and the trust to put into his shot placement. Also, he was nice enough to put me in his stand to hunt deer. I am not used to hunting in a stand where my farthest shot will be 10 yrds. So for everyone talking crap. Lets try not to attack each other. We have enough people against us hunters.

[Dipsnort]

Oh man, I just can't help myself.  Even though I'm late in this discussion, I need to respond.

Just because someone says on the internet they made a 90 yard bow kill shot does not mean it is true.  It's all about credibility of the person making the claim.  Let me tell you about the credibility of this particular "90 yard" shooter.

I used to post on a different forum where I would read his posts bragging about all sorts of incredible feats of marksmanship (among other things).  I couldn't help but chuckle at the wayward topics as folks challenged his claims over and over again for months and he defended them endlessly as the tales grew even taller.  Finally I responded to a claim that he has killed "well in excess of 100 deer".  Knowing that he was a pretty young guy I questioned him about the math.  He didn't want to talk numbers in the open forum so he went to personal messaging and told me that he had bow killed a deer every year in each of 3 different states (Washington, Oregon, and (if I'm not mistaken) Missouri) for 3 different people (2 of them being disabled hunters who he is related to) since he was (if I remember correctly) 14 years old.  And then he did the math on what he had just told me and it added up to a number that was less than 100 so he conceded that it was not actually "well in excess of 100".

That's when I stopped responding to his messages and just smiled and walked away.  Think about it.  Based on his claims he has filled all 9 archery tags per year since he was 14.  He (and 2 relatives) have the time and are all willing and able to pay for 2 out of state tags (and travel) each year so he can kill all of those deer.  And the list of improbabilities grows.

I'll say this about the "90 yard" shooter.  By all accounts he seems to be a nice guy.  But his lies and exaggerations in an attempt to make people look up to him and like him are so numerous that he has zero credibility.

Listen, hunters and fishermen exaggerate.  It's a fact of life.  Some of us are more extreme with those exaggerations than others.  It is good that we debate the ethics of 90 yard bow shots but let's just try to remember that not everything we hear on the internet is true.

[Glockster]

Do the math!!!  Oh how true.

I nominate Dipsnort for post of the year! 

The true killers, the dead stone killers...whether that's of people or game; you will never hear them brag about their accomplishments.   

All the hot air is easily deflated when the math is applied.  Bravo Dip!!!

[BIGINNER]

A 90 YARD BOW SHOT IS EQUIVELANT TO A 650 YARD RIFLE SHOT. I'M NOT SAYING IT CANT BE DONE JUST A LOT CAN GO WRONG AND MIGHT NOT BE A HIGH PERCENTAGE SHOT. I  HAND LOAD AND SHOOT ALL THE TIME AND SHOT A 327 INCH BULL AT 556 YARDS. I WAS CONFIDENT AT MY SHOOTING AND HIT HIM IN THE NECK AND IN THE BUTT. HE WAS STILL ALIVE WHEN I GOT TO HIM, I WAS FORTUNATE EVEN THOUGH I WAS AIMING FOR THE SHOULDER.(ABOUT 2 FEET OFF MY MARK)

THIS IS OFF TOPIC,...  BUT LOOKS LIKE I HAVE SOME COMPETITION!!!!   

LOL 

OK,  NOW ON THE SUBJECT,.. IF HE FELT CONFIDENT IN HIS SHOT AND EVERYHTING WAS CLEAR, THEN ITS FINE,.. BYT LIKE SAID BEFORE HE'S LUCK THEY ELK DIDN'T START WALKING,...