what is a good bugle for roosevelts

[PolarBear]

 
What I have found with Roosies is that the looooooong drawn out. 16 note bugles that you see these Rocky hunters on TV blow will spook Roosies sometimes but the very short, higher pitched bugles will get a reponse.  If you get one to answer you back try to mimic what he said but it more abrupt and higher pitched.  I agree with not screaming from the mountian tops and consentrating on the brush.  Another thing is most guys bugle waaay too much.  Do a couple of bugles to locate, get closer then try again.  I like to have them calling me and not the other way around. 

[colockumelk]

What I find curious, I have been chasing Roosevelts for 3 years now, after 20+ years on the east-side (I began on the west-side 33 years ago,but that was rifle) and thought I was a good Elk caller.
EVERY year I talk to quite a few Elk hunters who always say "Their just not bugling", and "They are not in the rut yet".

I love this.  Every year its always "too hot" or the "moon isn't right"     Its always something else and not them.  I just nod my head agree and push deeper in.  My opinion is if you are not hearing anything bugling etc then you are not where the elk are.  If you are in a basin 30 minutes before daylight and you are not hearing anything, and a locator bugle or lost cow call doesn't get a response, the elk are NOT THERE.  Move on.  I have noticed that when I am in an area where there are no elk, I typically do not get anything to respond.  But when I am in a place that has elk in it I usually get elk to respond. 

My typicall method is use a locator call and listen.  When a bull responds, take note of where he is and move in on him as fast as I can and ALWAYS with the wind in my face.  When I think I am near where he is I will do another locator.  If close enough the bull will usually tell you to pound sand.  Then sneak in as close as you can and do the one of the 3 elknut threat scenarios.  Works every time.  A note if I have moved in and I know where he is such as cows are chirping or I hear him then I will skip the second locator and just move in as close as I can get. 

[ouchfoss]

Like a few have already said, use cow talk more than bull talk. I have hunted roosevelts for 15 years and it took me a few years to realize that the way they do it on Primos videos is not the best aproach for roseys. I cant tell you how many bulls I have scared off because I thought that I get him to come in by challenging him with a bugle. Personally I use a bugle for nothing more than locating in areas I have no idea if there is elk there or not. If one talks back, put your bugle away and then rely on cow talk to get him in shooting range. As far as what bugle to use, personally I like the Primos pack bugle because you can compress it and make it small enough so you can almost put it in your coat pocket plus it actually has a quality sounding young bugle so it doesnt sound like your a big mature herd bull. I had several big bulls scream back at me this year so I know it works.

[colockumelk]

I sort of agree with ouchfoss.  There are times when the ONLY thing that would bring in the bull is a challenge.  But like everything it is completely 100% situation dependent.  And the only way to figure this stuff out is by experience.  I will agree that the pack bugle by primos is a really good bugle.  Especially since it is light and small.  My brother uses this one exclusively and it works well.  The elknut cd's will give you about 10 years of experience but then with everything personal experience will guide you in what call to use and when.  I personally do not restrict myself to one method.  I look at a situation and decide on what the elk is doing and/or saying and use that to determine what I use.  Here are two examples.

I am in close, and there is about ten cows and a herd bull.  No matter how many times I cow call to him or what cow call I use I am NOT gonna get him to come to me.  He has a bunch of cows so why leave them for a single cow.  Oh he will respond and tell me to come over but he is not gonna come over.  Now if I'm close enough and I do a scenario where one of his cows have strayed a bit and a small raghorn is trying to push her away (especially if I have used estrus sounds) he WILL respond because one of his cows is getting picked off by a small punk.  So this is a situation where the bugle is a must.

Now lets say there is a herd bull without any cows or a herdbull with a bunch of cows but you know there is some raghorns hanging around.  A lost cow call or an estrus cow call is going to be deadly.  A raghorn is going to come in to investigate and try to pull this cow away from the herd, which is why he's hanging around.  Like I've said there are times to bugle and times to cow call.  Experience will tell you which one to use and when. 

[christopheri]

x2 on Rocky's Bugling Bull calls... I prefer the yellow and red reeds myself with the brown a close 3rd.

I second that. Look up Elk Nut, he has everything you will need to start calling. Pratice, Practice, practice. Good luck

[colockumelk]

My last post kind of sounded like I was trying to say I'm better than ouchfoss.  That wasn't my intent.  Sorry if it sounded that way.  My intent was to show that each situation is different and no two elk are going to be called in the exact same.  So don't restrict yourself to one single method.  Didn't mean to try and trump someon elses experience.  Again I'm sorry. 

[Elkpiss]

I read through people's post and what i have read is everyone has different methods somewhat.. I know from what i have read, i do the exact opposite.. I dont think you can bugle enough when your locating, untill you get a answer is when you start to call to the bull and figure out your game plan.. I bugle every 20-100 yards when I know i am in a prime time elk spot to get a locate, and I love to locate off high ridge lines, however if you hunt western washington it is typically a brush pit..  I have cow called bulls in, but usually bugle them in, however this year seemed completely different then the last few years cause the bugle would pretty much spook them so I had to cow call them in.. Moral of the story is every encounter is different and you can watch movies all day and get the basic idea of a elk skit, but you have to learn from your mistakes and figure out what works and what dont.. EVERY ELK ENCOUNTER IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT. 

[ouchfoss]

My last post kind of sounded like I was trying to say I'm better than ouchfoss.  That wasn't my intent.  Sorry if it sounded that way.  My intent was to show that each situation is different and no two elk are going to be called in the exact same.  So don't restrict yourself to one single method.  Didn't mean to try and trump someon elses experience.  Again I'm sorry.

Honestly you probably are better at it then I am considering my track record the last couple years!  Its still a learning process for me. I use to never call at all for elk up until 8 years ago. First day that I ever decided to use cow talk I arrowed a nice 5x5 and swear by it now. I use to just spot and stalk elk and always seemed to be pretty productive when you could take cows in so many different places back in the day. I mainly target lone bulls and have been pretty productive at that with my strategy but a bull who already has cows and is the lead bull is a whole other ball game I have yet to seal the deal on. Seems like if I try bugling at a herd bull he just answers back and leaves with his herd.

[colockumelk]

Thats because he has somethin to lose. You have to create a situation that he has to. Respond to. such as a raghorn has picked off one of his cows.

[big wood]

I HAVE TO ADMIT I USE THE OLD LARRY JONES RED. I HAVE HAD THE BEST ALL AROUND LUCK WITH IT. I MADE MY OWN GRUNT TUBE 17 YEARS AGO WITH A WUFFLE BALL BAT AND AN OLD GRUNT TUBE. I'VE CALLED IN LOTS OF BULLS BY CUPPING MY HAND ON THE WUFFLEBALL SIDE OF MY GRUNT TUBE SIMILATING A GLUNK. KILLED 5 BULLS THAT WAY ALONE. SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO BE A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN ALL THE PROFESSIONALS OUT THERE!

[AKBowman]

Like Coluckumelk I bought the Elknuts CDs as well. Overall I would day they were very helpful if you are looking to listen to elk sounds. The problem I found with the Elknuts package as a whole is that the sounds CD has no information on when, where how or why to apply the sounds in the field. You are supposed to listen to the CD then read the Playbook and apply the sounds you heard on the CD after you read the playbook. I had issues with not remembering the sounds exactly and how or when the make the sounds given a certain situation in the field. Having the two together (sounds and discussion on application in the field) makes it much easier to use.

  I found Roe Hunting Resources website from a member on the forum here and it was like seeing the light. Chris Roe is a active wildlife bio who has spent thousands of hrs studying and living with elk. The way he breaks down when and why elk make sounds really helps the listener understand elk language.

  I would recommend googling the site and checking it out, I am really impressed.

[colockumelk]

I will have to check him out. Not sure what you mean by elknut doesnt go into detail about when to use calls. He goes into detail about what each elk sound means in elk language. He then explains what tje proper response would be. He also goes through a bunch of different scenarios. Did you listen to disk 1, 2 and his worse than wolves cds?  Also you have to listen to them multiple times. I listen to them every year so I remember. But yeah not sure how much simpler and much more detail elknut could go into.  

I will definately check out the guy you mentioned since you can not ever get enough info.

[AKBowman]

Coluckumelk, no I just bought the elknuts Sounds of The Elk CD and his playbook. To be honest I was not impressed with the playbook but everyone learns differently. After watching and listening to Chris Roe go through his explanation and detailed description of cow/calf elk sounds I was so impressed I didn't get the additional elknuts CD's. They are both are good teachers but it seems Roe Hunting Resources is better put together as far as a lesson plan plus RHR has a calling app which you can get on your iPhone!

Either way you are better off by researching either one

[colockumelk]

Yeah dude you should get his worse than wolves cds it will change your life.

[Hunter Dug]

JP Phelps cow call is all you need.  Most smart rosey's bulls round up there cows and bail when they are challenges.