snoqualmie ridge elk saved. barf

[Bob33]

Read more here: http://snoqualmievalleyelk.org/archive/docs/elkandprivatepropertydamage.pdf

This is not a new, fly by night operation.

"The mission of The Upper Snoqualmie Valley Elk Management Group is to work collaboratively to minimize property damage and public safety risks associated with elk and to manage elk for a variety of recreational, educational and aesthetic purposes including hunting, scientific study, cultural and ceremonial uses by Native Americans, wildlife viewing and photography.

Collaborating stakeholder agenciesand interest groups:
Department of Fish and Wildlife
Department of Natural Resources
Department of Transportation
United States Forest Service
King County Water and Land Resources
King County Sheriff’s Office
King County Parks
City of North Bend
City of Snoqualmie
Muckleshoot Indian Tribe
Tulalip Indian Tribe
Snoqualmie Indian Tribe
Hancock Forest Management
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
Mountains to Sound Greenway
Meadowbrook Farm Preservation Association
Hunters, property owners, and concerned citizens."

[bearpaw]

Sounds like a near perfect program to me and takes full advantage of the use of hunting to control game populations in close proximity to areas where hunting would not normally occur.

In eastern cities they are utilizing special seasons to reduce problem deer populations, another perfect example of why hunting is needed. I think its a good idea for the golf course to rely on hunters to resolve their damage problems.

[MAVsled]

Here's a picture of the property to get some perspective on fencing....

and smack dab in the middle just up from the Alice lake road, my uncle, father (and I tagging along as a young boy) as they took a blacktail buck there just about every year...1960-1977.
but we never saw any elk back then around what we called Alice Lake area, now the Snoqualmie TPC and homeowners assoc.

golf courses are cultivated, like private farms, for profit. They should bear any expenses to resolve their problem, fence or otherwise, just like any other business. Now if this area were open to the public for golf and more important other public access, bring forth from the tax fund.

[blacktail luv]

Fencing the course is not the solution.  Around home here we have some orchardists who already have a 8 foot fence completely surrounding there land.  THE ELK STILL GET IN!  They push it over.  Now rather than give them damage tags (which also don't keep them out) they want them to build another fence 8 feet outside the other fence, giving them double protection.  When you have the best food source for miles there is no way to keep a hungry group of elk out.  Period! In my opinion the elk are there to stay, people are just gonna have to deal with it.  Hell I might play golf if I could look at some elk while I'm doing it, it's a boring game anyway. 

[Bob33]

This is about more than some rich landowners experiencing property damage.  The herd is over capacity.  That means elk suffer.  Elk run across roads and cause damage to cars and passengers, even to some "poor" folks that don't live on the golf course.

[SniperDanWA]

I'm a former farmer.  I raised cattle and crops.  I could not make it, financially.  I have several hundred acres in IA.  The cost to fence my property was roughly $75K for a woven wire 30" and 3 strand barb with 1 electric strand.  The first car accident, $2K repair.  The first hunters to want through, $5K, yeah no respect just cut and drove through in two places.  Spent two days rounding up cattle in neighboring fields.  Snow damage each year, $5K.  Now, that was a fence to contain domestic animals and it was 1/2 mile wide by 3/4 miles long.  To triple the woven wire, dig posts that can withstand the weight of the wire, weather and wild creatures will not double my costs, but more likely quadruple the cost.  Now, my space is square with no houses surrounding it.  I also don't have 40' trees around my place.

My point, the golf course can't fence the entire property, do to the housing, streets and irregularity of the property lines.  There will be elk and deer and other animals in that property no matter what.  The fence just can't be made to keep them out, based on my experience of 20 years ranching cattle.  Animals have a will and their will drives them to do miraculous things.  They are marvelous to watch and a challenge to hunt.  My 

[scudmaster]

Another thing that people are not understanding there is no other hunting allowed for this herd anywhere around the course, due to the city ordinance. And the hunters on this hunt actually paid for application fees for the draw and for a second tag as well. The hunt coordinator is a volunteer and it is in the normal duties for the WDFW agents who work it.  Not a lot of expense and considering the hunters put in $1000 bucks each year for apps and tags. This hunt is a wash financially. 

[ICEMAN]

How many years has this hunt been going? From my uninformed perspective it sounds like even with all these great laid plans, that it has not been working?

And specivically to Dale's point of a win win for property owners and hunters in an area with minimal other hunting... I hear that. Sounds good, but it does not appear to be working, no matter the incredible efforts of the Snoqualmie valley association.

From my perspective, we have a "group" dedicated to working the situation, to bring hunters and homeowners together, to promote hunting as a big game control strategy, and it appears not to work in this case. Public interest has been slight. Public interest in now huge as this is a focal point for the media. I would love to have hunters save the day here and solve this problem, but it sure does not seem to be working in this case.

Maybe the fix is to get the surrounding area open to bow hunting to help keep the herd in check. I would now concentrate my efforts on the local city council to loosen up their restriction and see if this solves the issue.

[Bob33]

Iceman, the hunts have not worked to completely address the problem, but that is not the same as saying they did not work at all.  Around 25 permits are issued per year, and most are filled. The herd is growing faster than that.

Given the virulent opposition to killing some elk by many on here that I assumed would be more pro hunting, and understanding that is how the general population must see it, it is a wonder they have been able to kill any elk over the years.

[JimmyHoffa]

  When you have the best food source for miles there is no way to keep a hungry group of elk out.  Period! In my opinion the elk are there to stay, people are just gonna have to deal with it.  Hell I might play golf if I could look at some elk while I'm doing it, it's a boring game anyway.

Yeah, I was thinking "so they built some really great elk habitat and now are upset that it is attracting elk".  My guess would be that it could be solved by hunting for the next few years, until the urban sprawl completely locks the elk out.  I too would rather play golf if elk were on the course....probably take better shots at elk than a flag in a hole.

[SniperDanWA]

From my perspective, we have a "group" dedicated to working the situation, to bring hunters and homeowners together, to promote hunting as a big game control strategy...

Maybe the fix is to get the surrounding area open to bow hunting to help keep the herd in check. I would now concentrate my efforts on the local city council to loosen up their restriction and see if this solves the issue.

ICEMAN,
I like this approach.  I don't live close to this area and don't likely qualify for the hunt for a few reasons, but if the course needs to be saved and offenders removed, sounds like you have an approach.

[pianoman9701]

From my perspective, we have a "group" dedicated to working the situation, to bring hunters and homeowners together, to promote hunting as a big game control strategy...

Maybe the fix is to get the surrounding area open to bow hunting to help keep the herd in check. I would now concentrate my efforts on the local city council to loosen up their restriction and see if this solves the issue.

ICEMAN,
I like this approach.  I don't live close to this area and don't likely qualify for the hunt for a few reasons, but if the course needs to be saved and offenders removed, sounds like you have an approach.

Sounds like a good long term approach for a solution to me, Iceman. A dialogue should be started with the city council. There may even be some hunters on it.

[Bob33]

I hate to be cynical, but if you read back through quite a few posts here you can understand why this hunt was cancelled.  For goodness sakes, we are hunters and yet there is quite a bit of opposition to this hunt.  Imagine how the anti hunters feel about killing a few elk for the sake of those damn rich landowners!

We've got to support hunting even when it may not be exactly the way we want it to be.

10-4

[Elkaholic daWg]

 VERY true Bob, but they are using the same Psyche they used on the wolf (here first) issue. And I would bet big money these are the SAME people who have a problem with the elk! GIVE 'EM some wolves!! or let them deal with reality of their beliefs. Can we not rub it in? This did not come from a DFW "news release".

[gonehuntin68]

Don't always agree with the tree hugger type, but I don't agree with people that build a golf course in the middle of elk country then complain about the elk.