Colockum Elk Herd (UPDATED)

[KillBilly]

ColockumElk.. I read the letters. First comment, the second one is a little shorter but they only give you 3 minutes to read your testimony. I would suggest that we discuss both of your letters and come up with a shorter one to read to the commission. If we get the WFW Board of directors to approve, then we can testify as an Organization rather than as an individual. The second thought would be that both of your letters could be sent to commission@dfw.wa.gov by hundreds of the WFW and Hunt-Wa members just as they are written. Each member copies the letter and mails it with his own e-mail address attached to it.

Let me know how you want to handle it. I will drive to E-burg to represent WFW but I will not make the trip without a board sanctioned message to read.

We don't have much time

[KillBilly]

On a side note.. Colockum has been Elected as the Vice-President of the REgion 2 Chapter....Congrats.

[Special T]

I would like to set one thing straight.
We are not against all road closures. If good science is present we would support a closure in the interest of wildlife.  I will not go into details here becausse it will take too long but I extend an offer to anyone to attend a meeting or contact us directly for the truth and the real story and big picture. We have the facts. WDFW is good at painting a picture and using graphs and stats but the old saying is "garbage in garbage out". We want the same thing as everyone. Sustainable wildlife management and open and respected access to public lands.
 The proposed closure of a couple miles of Stray Gulch and Tekison road are in the winter range and it has nothing to do with Elk either.  If you would have done your homework you would know that.
Our next meeting is this coming Monday night at 7:30 pm at the Moose Lodge on Main St in Ellensburg. This proposed closure is our topic and we are presenting the facts. Our meetings are always open to the public.
Road density is an issue within the forested canopy area and that ground is not owned by WDFW. It is the Naneum Ridge State Forest owned by WA DNR.
I'm glad eyeryone has so much spark and interest in this herd and the land they thrive on. I hope you can put it to good use but you must be informed of ALL the underlying issues first.
By the way, go look at this.  Look at the total number of elk in the herd. Look at the Cow to Calf ratio. Look at the bull recruitment ratio.  Look at the total bull count. Look at what they say is the branched bull numbers. Look at all the hard data. Now, do the math and ask yourself. Based on those numbers, how many cows does a branched bull have to mate with to keep the herd level or increasing? A branched bull can't mate with that many cows! Their numbers on branched bulls are not correct and they even admitted that to us in a recent meeting. 
Focus on the important issues and do the homework and arm yourself with knowledge and fight for a healthy robust wildlife area!  Just make sure you have the facts.  Please.

leed If The road closure has nothing to do with elk what is it? Surly you can sum it up in one paragraph so we can least investigate the issue. You will find that many of us do homework when issues are brought up.

[colockumelk]

KillBilly I will come up with a concise letter for members to send out. In the meen time I believe the main purpose of this meeting is just about road management so if someone could read just theletter dealing with road issues would be great. I will also type out an updated and edited version of that letter.

[colockumelk]

I would like to set one thing straight.
We are not against all road closures. If good science is present we would support a closure in the interest of wildlife.  I will not go into details here becausse it will take too long but I extend an offer to anyone to attend a meeting or contact us directly for the truth and the real story and big picture. We have the facts. WDFW is good at painting a picture and using graphs and stats but the old saying is "garbage in garbage out". We want the same thing as everyone. Sustainable wildlife management and open and respected access to public lands.
 The proposed closure of a couple miles of Stray Gulch and Tekison road are in the winter range and it has nothing to do with Elk either.  If you would have done your homework you would know that.
Our next meeting is this coming Monday night at 7:30 pm at the Moose Lodge on Main St in Ellensburg. This proposed closure is our topic and we are presenting the facts. Our meetings are always open to the public.
Road density is an issue within the forested canopy area and that ground is not owned by WDFW. It is the Naneum Ridge State Forest owned by WA DNR.
I'm glad eyeryone has so much spark and interest in this herd and the land they thrive on. I hope you can put it to good use but you must be informed of ALL the underlying issues first.
By the way, go look at this.  Look at the total number of elk in the herd. Look at the Cow to Calf ratio. Look at the bull recruitment ratio.  Look at the total bull count. Look at what they say is the branched bull numbers. Look at all the hard data. Now, do the math and ask yourself. Based on those numbers, how many cows does a branched bull have to mate with to keep the herd level or increasing? A branched bull can't mate with that many cows! Their numbers on branched bulls are not correct and they even admitted that to us in a recent meeting. 
Focus on the important issues and do the homework and arm yourself with knowledge and fight for a healthy robust wildlife area!  Just make sure you have the facts.  Please.

leed If The road closure has nothing to do with elk what is it? Surly you can sum it up in one paragraph so we can least investigate the issue. You will find that many of us do homework when issues are brought up.

special T the president of the KVFS club  at a WDFW meeting flat out told me they are against any road closures in the colockum. I am also apparantly misinformed and have been told that I do more harm then good on this issue by members of their group.

[ribka]

I'm a WFW member and will reach out to the organization and see if I can speak too.
Will try and make the meeting too.

I contacted a WDFW rep re gates and he advised that the off road groups vehemently oppose all gates and they use attorneys to fight for them.Be tough battle but maybe some type of compromise can be reached.

I have be stating this ad naseum on here but cannot have unlimited road access to wintering grounds for deer and elk. 

[colockumelk]

KillBilly you shouldn't have to drive all that way. Luvtohunt lives in ellensburg he could read it. 

[leed]

The couple miles, ends of, both Stray Gulch and Tekison Rd are proposed to be closed to protect salmon and steelhead spawning.  However, their aren't any! Not there. We have the documentation to prove it.
I can't believe all of you beilieve everything WDFW says. Wake up people!
Road density is an issue in some areas not all and they do not have any scietific evidence to close either road.
Go do your homework.  Don't just look at their studies.  Investiagte and you will find they would love to close most if not all roads. They use elk and ESA as a toll to close roads so they don't have to maintain them. The elk herd is not being hurt by the roads. Atleast not in the winter area. What is hurting them is uncontrolled harvest and by the way the ELIMINATED the ENFORCEMENT SERGEANT position here last month. They didn't tell you that did they!

[Elkaholic daWg]

 Sounds about right leed!

[colockumelk]

Leed Where in my letter did you see anything about closing the roads you mentioned. In any case I have done my research and cited my sources. I have also lived and hunted up there where are your sources. Before you say my research and stuff is false and wrong perhaps you should have something to back it up.

If you had done your research you would know that road density has an effect on the health of an elk herd. And it has a profound effect on escapement. You are right the problem is over harvest And the #1 reason for the over harvest (licensed, tribal and poaching) is because the road density in the Colockum (specifically in 328 Naneum) is too high. I have proved my point. I would like you to prove yours. Again I am not pro WDFW I'm pro elk and pro creating more and better opportunity. 

I have one question why are you against blocking the roads that are already closed?

[colockumelk]

Not saying my s**t don't stink but your going to have to do better than telling us to do our homework. Just because you disagree with us doesnt meen we Havnt done our research. Where's yours that disproves ours. 

[bone collector 12]

 

Not saying my s**t don't stink but your going to have to do better than telling us to do our homework. Just because you disagree with us doesnt meen we Havnt done our research. Where's yours that disproves ours. 

[Elkaholic daWg]

Sounds about right leed!

Don't get too upset..... I meant this

 "At least not in the winter area. What is hurting them is uncontrolled harvest and by the way the ELIMINATED the ENFORCEMENT SERGEANT position here last month. They didn't tell you that did they!"

[colockumelk]

Elkaholic I didn't have any problem with what you said. I knew what you meant

Leed I would imagine they didn't replace that SGT because of our current budget issues. Not certain but I would suspect that played a large part in it.

[Special T]

Look, what Leed has some merit. The state wants to close roads and comes up with reasons to do so.  I asked for a short explanation of why, he gave it to you. On the west side we have seen massive road closures with gates for every reason under the sun.  I think this is a good forum for Leed to share with us why they are against certain road closures and the proof because we can work together to influence good sound decisions. I wouldn't jump his case over a short answer, but it think it is in everyone benefit for a better one