Barnes vs. Nosler vs. Hornady

[Quackin_Archer]

So, I have finally put a box through my new .300 WSM. It was a box of Barnes 165gr ttsx. I liked how they shoot. ALTHOUGH I am having a hard time finding them. So as I am going to the range tomorrow, I picked up a box of Nosler accubonds 180gr. bullets. I think I am going to stick to the 180's as finding the 165's is like the needle in the haystack. I have also heard that the Hornadys match grades are great aswell. Whats everyones opinions on these rounds?

[JohnVH]

Im a barnes fan, order a bunch and reload a bunch, problem solved.

[bobcat]

You won't know until you shoot the Accubonds, it all depends on what your rifle "likes". And I wouldn't be too set on 180 grain over 165's. Just go with what your rifle shoot best. In my opinion, with a Barnes (or any 100% copper bullet) you're better off going with a lighter bullet than you normally would. With the Barnes you don't lose much weight, if any, so for that reason you can afford to start out with a little less weight. Also the extra velocity with the lighter weight will help it to expand more reliably.

[MDGrand]

Totally agree with bobcat..

Whatever your rifle "likes" is what it should get.

That being said, another bullet you might want to throw into the mix is the 185 Berger VLD.

I shoot those in my 300WSM at 2800 FPS and it loves 'em. I get almost identical accuracy as my 180 Barnes TSX BUT with the Berger being such a high BC bullet, I get more retained velocity and knockdown power over 300 yards.

If you dont reload, I am sure you could order a box online from the the Hunting Shack.. HSM Ammo.

 

[Biggerhammer]

Nosler or Hornady for me, Nosler first. BARNES SUCK!!!

[Bob33]

Just remember, when the Mayan apocalypse comes later this year, you'll be saying ""He didn't shoot the best, longest-lasting, most dependable bullet.  He shot a Berger."

[Buckmark]

Nosler or Hornady for me, Nosler first. BARNES SUCK!!!

So why do you dislike barnes so much? Is it for this posters application or just in general? What experince have you had with them that tainted your view?

[Biggerhammer]

Nosler or Hornady for me, Nosler first. BARNES SUCK!!!

So why do you dislike barnes so much? Is it for this posters application or just in general? What experince have you had with them that tainted your view?

I'm not a sheep, don't fix it, if it isn't broke. Simple concept, you don't see me calling people dumb asses for shooting them do you? No, my personal opinion and experience is that they SUCK!

[carpsniperg2]

Accubonds all the way. Nothing can best them in my big game guns.

I also dislike Barnes. The only bullet I will ever shoot of there's is the tmz muzzleloader bullets. I have had more then a few bad deals with them.

[BOWHUNTER45]

hornaday all the way for me   

[Biggerhammer]

hornaday all the way for me   

Hey, I slum Hornady's with exellent results. I would slum a Hornady any day over a Barnes but then again I don't read about what bullet to shoot. I kill chit with a selection of them and make a desicion for myself self based upon the results of my aplied big game mayhem. Every big game animal I have hit with a Nosler, didn't have a pulse long enough to curse the bullets performance.

[C-Money]

I really like the Accubonds in my rifles. I shoot Accubonds, wife shoots Partitions. I am a big Nosler guy, but I have killed a LOT of game using The Hornanday Interlock and they were always flawless.

[JLS]

hornaday all the way for me   

Every big game animal I have hit with a Nosler, didn't have a pulse long enough to curse the bullets performance.

Exactly my experience with Barnes.

[Biggerhammer]

hornaday all the way for me   

Every big game animal I have hit with a Nosler, didn't have a pulse long enough to curse the bullets performance.

Exactly my experience with Barnes.

Wonderful! Is this the JLS that hangs out with short plumbers.

[JLS]

Obviously I'm missing something?  I do ride the short bus.

[Biggerhammer]

Obviously I'm missing something?  I do ride the short bus.

Sorry, wrong guy. I like the short bus, Filters album "Short Bus" was great also.

[deleted BGS]

shot 2 bear and 3 deer with core lockt  1 shot each

[Bob33]

Here's an article by Jim Hackiewicz, an African outfitter (who happens to live in Washington.)  He's seen a few animals die in his time.

"I've seen every premium bullet and a pile of different brands calibers and weights of standard cup and core bullets used in my career. After all this time and all this experience one thing stands out for me. You cannot expect a perfect mushroom at extended ranges and still have the same projectile remain in one piece at 50 meters. That's a very tall order!

With that said the premium bullets manage this at various levels better then cup and core bullets. So what do you choose? Well you must choose the bullet that matches the range and the game. Shooting a TSX at a small species of deer under 100 meters is not your best option. Shooting a Ballistic tip at the 3200plus FPS range at under 100 meters on larger big game also not the best choice.

Consider what your after and the conditions to match what you're launching. Other wise all this banter about failure or perfection is a waste of time. Use the right tool for the job. Anytime you have a all purpose tool you sacrifice performance at one end of the scale or the other.

Having said this, with my business in Africa, I will say that you never know what is going to show up where, or how big it will be. So preperation for the worst case scenerio is prudent. After seeing dozens if not hundreds of different bullets, loads, cartriges, and in many calibers. There is one bullet that stands out as fail proof and as functional as possible at this point in time. That is the TSX bullet. It's not the best bullet for every situation, but it's the closest to a perfect comprimise as you will find. Even in the worst case situation if it fails to open, it reamins a solid that will out penetrate anything else made today for hunting. So if your aim is true, you will poke a hole clean through the intended target/organ of choice.

You will normally get two holes in the animal, and normally find it dead in short order. There are always exceptions to these things, only a fool would argue that. I've seen some screwy performance from all kinds of bullets, the TSX included. However the most consistant lethal performance remains the TSX.

Also remember that I was likely the single biggest detractor of the original X bullet on the internet from a PH's standpoint for many years. I would not use one of the original X bullets if they were given to me for free. This TSX is a much different product.

As it stands right now, my loaner rifles are shooting TSX bullets in Africa. I can use any bullet I want, and load any way I see fit. With all the options available to me, the TSX is still the most consistantly lethal bullet I have seen in the last 1000 plus big game animals shot with it in my camps.

When somebody shoots or sees shot that many big to huge animals the resolution of performance begins to appear a bit more in focus. Seeing a dozen or two animals is a good start. But hundreds and maybe 1000's of 200-2000 lb animals killed really sharpens your opinion!

There are lots of opinions, and we need all the MFG's we have today producing ammo. I don't want to see a monopoly with one bullet maker in control. However as a professional in a position of experience with these matters, You can see my choice, and what I based it on. Your mileage may very, choose wisely!

As far as my opinion for various sized game or cartridges......... I've written this before both in print and on this site. I'll go from memory here so if one of you clever guys find it in another post and it's not dead on the money it should be very close. From my expereince with various ammo, I have this opinion to share:

For guns 30 caliber to 8mm in standard cartridges under 3000fps MV I like the Hornady interbond very much on non-DG under 400 pounds. When the game is getting bigger or can fight back requiring bone crunching impacts at close range, I strongly prefer the TSX

When the same conditions are met but using rifles shooting over 3000fps the Swift Aframe is a very hard bullet to beat. I think I have seen more shuddering and stunning game stopping impacts with this combination then just about anything else. Same thoughts for DG though, I pick the TSX again

With calibers over 8mm on smaller species of game as above the Swift Aframe, and the Hornady interbond, and many other bonded bullets, except the NF are very good. The NF is very hard and does not open like the others do when shot from a slower rifle, or on smaller game.

On bigger game the NF is a perfect fit as are the others along with the TSX. As game increases in size to the 1000 lb mark the TSX starts to pull away again. I can say without hesitation that the 270 grain Aframe in the 375HH has provided some of the most spectacular shuddering and stunning kills I have ever witnessed.

One thing to point out here for you folks. As a PH I have the opportunity to see game hit that the hunter does not. His vision is greatly disrupted through recoil, while I am watching through field glasses. I've learned far more about bullet performance and impact watching game shot then I could have ever hoped to learn as a shooter.

There is also a stunning difference between the 300 grain bullet at 2500 and the 270 grain at 2800. The 300fps trumps the 30 grains of weight 100% of the time on every single animal I have ever seen shot with both. The 270 grain at 2800 has consistantly penetrated further on both Eland and Buffalo then the 300 grain bullet does. There is a spectacular difference in results between the two. Dropping down a weight class to increase velocity with a bullet that retains 100% of it's weight is a winning combination just about every time!

Sectional density may have played a roll in history, but it's not a functional measure today when comparing a 300 grain Cup and core bullet to a 270 grain monolithic copper bullet. That copper bullet may start out lower in SD but it's not changing at anywhere near the rate that the crumpling lead and jacket shedding cup and core bullet does! The recovered SD of the monolithic bullet will be greater then the recovered SD of the soft pointed jacketed bullet In every case I have ever seen.

All bonded bullets are not the same. The Interbond I think has been the softest and easiest to expand of all I have used. It's a tremendous killer of big game when sized properly and driven to a prudent speed. The North Fork is the opposite end of the scale it's very firm, actually hard with a thick jacket compared to the interbond.

The Aframe, woodleigh and accubond seem to split the difference and maybe have it about right for the "all around" use crowd. I guess I don't see the need for a bonded design as hard as the NF. I would just use the TSX and get the higher percentage exits. If I want something for smaller game, I'll use the Aframe or interbond which open better at a greater distance and still hold together great.

There is one other issue at hand that many people don't figure into the formula of their choice. There is so much debate and stress over what is best. We don't always get to decide this! Our rifle makes the final decision for us. Not every rifle will shoot all the bullets accurately or consistantly, or without excessive fouling. Each bullet has just enough difference in construction that they must be Proofed at the bench to determine the final decision. I have had rifles that would not shoot the original X bullet without massive and un-usable fouling. I have had a barrel that would shoot 4-5 hole touching shots with the interbond and then send one out into never never land. Yet both these rifles would shoot the Aframe and TSX all day as much as you please with stunning accuracy. In another rifle, of a friend would not shoot the Aframe at all. I worked on that for months and finally gave up. Yet it would shoot, Failsafe, woodleigh, and the original X bullets with perfection.

I'm at the point now that if I had a rifle that would not shoot the TSX bullets just right. I would strongly consider getting a new barrel. It's no longer about the gun being the decision maker to me. It's about using what I know has the track record to give me confidence to go hunting.

After all, when it's all said and done, your going to unleash this little projectile at about 3000 fps and that is the only thing that ties your hopes and dreams of a successful hunt together. Not the 3000 dollar custom rifle and scope, the goretex camo gear, the 4X4, the ATV, the field glasses, nothing but that little chunk of metal traveling away at about 3000 fps towards your trophy. Feel lucky?

Let me put this into a story perspective here. I have a hunter( this has happened a lot of times) We see the game and he makes the shot. At the instant of the booming report of the gun the animals takes several big leaps and is out of sight. This happens in a fraction of a second. He then turns to me and says, I know I hit that thing good. We stand just a couple feet apart, so close I could feel the pressure of the muzzle blast on my cheeks. He is staring at me...... blank..... waiting for some evaluation of what went wrong or what do we do now. I have to say to him, How did the shot feel? what do you think?

We have to walk that 100-150 yards to the location the animal was last seen. We see tracks and follow the direction. With the other 20 animals there with him the spoor becomes complicated and messy. After going down several possible escape routes through the bush, we find a spot of blood, not much but at least we know it's a hit.

Up to that instant there was really no indication of a hit with the TSX bullet. That's a feature I could live without. However the only way to solve that in my mind is less penetration and being stopped under the skin.

In nearly every case the animal is just a short distance beyond the first few drops of blood, some follow ups are more entertaining then others, but they have........ at least up til now been successful. The few that have been lost are shooter errors. In the last two seasons less then 5 animals have been lost and all have proven to be shooter error, as stated by the hunter themself.

with a bonded core bullet, you choose the type. There is a reaction to the impact much of the time. It's audible as well. I have heard the bullets impact the game as often as I have seen them shudder and stagger the instant of impact. This is certainly not 100% of the time, but quite frequent. With the TSX being the exact opposite ratio of visual impact unless shoulders or CNS hits are made.

How many here have heard the impact of a bullet into an animal? Its unmistakeable. How many here have seen the streak of the bullet with the sun glaring off of it as it travels towards the animal? These are things you don't see every time, but it's awefully impressive when you do.

So what about that DG issue? It's much more to do with placement then bullet design. Either way your gonna break something if you hit the drive train. I feel strongly that the TSX will break bones and continue going straight ahead. I'm somewhat less confident that a bonded core bullet will travel true once badly deformed and mushroomed.

After all the TSX is really an axpanding solid right? For the folks that seem to debate what to use on DG first a soft then the rest of the magazine solids? I say that is very old school. Stack the magazine with both at the same time, fill it with the TSX and be done with that debate!"

[Biggerhammer]

WOW! There's someone else on this planet that believes the Barnes isn't the cure all, make your trusty .270 or 06 capable of leveling anything on the planet. Maybe even complete pass throughs on Zombie owned and operated assault vehicles with of course 100% weight retention.

Simple concept that has worked for me:

Choose the game

Choose the bullet

Choose the cartridge to push it

The rest is on you.

[martin1]

our 300 remington short mags like the 165 grain and 180 grain bullets. the only problem we have had with the 165 grain is that they basicly were exploding on impact. those were core loks and well they didnt even hold together on a deer   

[bobcat]

our 300 remington short mags like the 165 grain and 180 grain bullets. the only problem we have had with the 165 grain is that they basicly were exploding on impact. those were core loks and well they didnt even hold together on a deer   

That's no surprise, core-lokts are not made to stay together. I've seen them blow up out of a 30-06 on a deer at 100 yards. They're no different than a ballistic tip in that regard. Definitely not a bullet I would use for elk, unless it's out of a low velocity cartridge like a 30-30.