breaking over the barrels?

[MountainWalk]

How many of you guys are familiar with the German expression on "breaking over the barrels"

For intance, after pulling the bolt to the rear and sliding it back to the front, you pull the trigger and slowly close the bolt, there fore leaving the firing pin uncocked, but resting on the fiirng pin. It takes an awefully hard blow to make it go off. Technically it is not as safe as an unloaded chamber.

Does anyone do this?

[jeff100]

I use that technique to unload the firing pin spring pressure when I store my rifles in my gun safe.  So I understand what you're describing, although I've never heard that term before.  But I have to ask, what is the point?  Why would you want to do this with a live round loaded in the chamber, especially in the field? 

Doesn't make sense to me, but hey, maybe that's just me...sometimes I'm a little slow on the uptake...

[robodad]

I use that technique to unload the firing pin spring pressure when I store my rifles in my gun safe.  So I understand what you're describing, although I've never heard that term before.  But I have to ask, what is the point?  Why would you want to do this with a live round loaded in the chamber, especially in the field? 

Doesn't make sense to me, but hey, maybe that's just me...sometimes I'm a little slow on the uptake...

I use the same method to store them and I am with you on the live round bit  that is just way out there. You have to eject that round to "cock" the pin again anyway why not leave the chamber empty 

[bucklucky]

I use the same method to store them and I am with you on the live round bit  that is just way out there. You have to eject that round to "cock" the pin again anyway why not leave the chamber empty 
[/quote]



Exactly what I was thinking, whats the point?

[Bscman]

I'll do this with some of my rimfire rifles...
Especially those with light triggers and safeties I don't trust 100%.

In the rimfire world, typically all you have to do is raise the bolt handle and close it back down to cock it due to the common "cocking ramp" design of most rimfire bolt bodies.

I've never had an unwanted disharge using this method.

I don't see myself doing it with a centerfire, though.

[bucklucky]

I guess you wopuld only have to lift the bolt up to cock it. I dont know if I would trust it though.

[jeff100]

I hate to sound like I'm preaching here, but decocking a firearm leaving the firing pin resting on the primer (centerfire OR rimfire) just doesn't sound safe to me.  I have no concern about the decocking action, or carrying the rifle around so long as you don't drop it.  I seems to me that if you take a header off a trail and that firearm hits 'just right', that baby is gonna discharge.  It's no different than the old Single Action .45 Colts and the original Ruger three screw Blackhawks where the advice is to load five and rest the hammer on an empty chamber.  In those particular firearms it's considered foolish and dangerous to carry a live round under the hammer because the firing pin is resting on the primer and accidental discharges have happened from dropping the firearm.

As for not trusting a safety, I would not keep a firearm that I could not trust the safety on.  I do a lot of trigger jobs on my own firearms.  Both installing new adjustable triggers, and/or carefully honing sear surfaces and replacing springs.  Speaking only of rifles, on every rifle I've ever done trigger work on, I've found it's easy to get the safety messed up where the rifle will fire when the safety is taken off, or the rifle will fire when jarred, or the rifle will fire with the safety on.  When I'm done with the trigger job, I thoroughly test the rifle for these conditions, including beating the hell out of the rifle (without damaging it of course), to simulate accidentally dropping the rifle.  I make any safety adjustment necessary to prevent any accidental discharges regardless of what happens to the rifle. 

I don't know about all you folks, but in my life, I've taken a number of falls while hunting tough terrain, and yeah, I've dropped or thrown my rifle a few times during those falls.  Whether big game hunting, small game, or upland bird, I have always subscribed to having a firearm loaded at all times while hunting in the field, including one in the chamber.  I need a safety I can rely on...

So...IMO...a safety that works intermittently (regardless of why) is not a safety, it's an accident waiting to happen...

No offense to anyone, just my unsolicited opinion...

Your mileage may vary...Jeff

[MountainWalk]

Before anyone draws any conclusions whether i do this or not, Im  not an advocate of the practice. I do however, store my guns after relaxing the firing pin spring.
I asked though, because I have been doing serious reading of old ivory hunters and their guns. In these old books, many of them practiced this. In their opinion (remember, THEIRS, not mine), that this was the best way to carry a rifle on an actual stalk, as all you had to do was lift the bolt handle, and that it was almost impossible with good condition rifles to make them discharge by dropping them. They prefered doing this with dangerous game that just seems to pop up in the thickest of spots.
In these books, overwhelmingly the bolt guns were of german model 98 vintage, even the holland and holland  bolt guns were mausers. I wonder if the opinion of it being a safe rifle was because they were two stage triggers? Peter Capstick also practices this. Like i said, while i dont do it for stalking or general carry, I do find it interesting.

[jeff100]

That's interesting.  What book are you reading?  I love reading old books about hunting.  When I was a kid growing up, I didn't have a large family around and no one hunted.  My love of the outdoors and hunting came from reading old books about hunting and the early mountain men.

As to the ivory hunters practice of carrying their rifles, I wonder...if primers back in those days were harder to touch off, less sensitive to shock, compared to today's primers.  I think those old primers would have been made with mercury fulminate, which isn't used these days to my knowledge.  I have no idea how they would compare to todays primers in regards to sensitivity to shock.  Also if those ivory hunters were shooting european ammo, which is likely, that ammo would have been Berdan primed, which also may have made a big difference.  It's all pure speculation.  Hard to say without being there in that time...Jeff   

[MountainWalk]

bell of africa,, wanderings of an elephant hunter,, lotta karamoja bell,, sutherland, rushby, hunter, and of course, capstick.. seattle library has lots of very old obscure hunting books, many of them of African hunting.