Spokane Tribe to kill walleye on Spokane River during general spring closure

[yelp]

We wouldn't have half the lake fishing in WA if it wasn't for state hatcheries. I would like to see the tribes pursue more hatcheries for native fish species.

WDFW is all messed up, they are cutting back on hatcheries when they need to increase revenue. 

This sturgeon project sounds like a perfect example of what the tribes can do. Imagine if they were putting 1000 or 2000 sturgeon 24 inches long into Roosevelt every year.

Maybe some native rainbow, cutthroat, and bull trout, and some type of small native fish to feed everything. Like was said, this could happen in all the reservoirs.

   Raise more fish 10 times as many..release more kokanee and trout.   

Back to Walleye.  There is no way any group, tribe, federal or state agency will ever get rid of walleye, small mouth bass, or pike with any program or bounty on the Columbia River system.  Any pool on the columbia will be affected by the pool above it.  If trout and kokanee fisherman are concerned about walleyes eating kokanee and trout they should be out there fishing for walleyes, bass and burbot too.

One last point.  Burbot - a native washington fish  which also eating lots of minnows.  There was more burbot caught this spring in the spokane , hawk creek, etc than in years past.  There are more predators to blame than walleye. 

Walleyes according to everything I have read are to be thanked for cleaning up Lake Roosevelt which once was a cess pool.  So walleyes enhanced the system which has better habitat now for kokanee and trout than it used to.  At least since the dams were put in. Definately a Love/Hate relationship.  Big fish will always eat small fish unless they are all plankton eaters.   

[teal101]

A lot of misinformation in this thread.

Kettle Falls was the LARGEST Sockeye Salmon run in the Columbia system.  As stated before it provided quite the bounty for tribes from all over the PNW.  IMO the tribes are attempting to re-establish the native Sockeye runs by using Kokanee as the fish cant migrate up stream past the dam.

The logistics of creating a fish ladder up around Grand Coulee is insane.  Attempting to get the fish to funnel into the ladder, then go up would be difficult.  There would need to be multiple pools along the way for fish to rest to make it up the next set of rapids.  This would take a lot of real estate as well as money to accomplish.  Even if the fish make it above the dam, theres no telling how well the molt will fare coming back down.  There is the large inlet to Banks Lake that the fish would be sucked into, hopelessly being lost in the irrigation system.  There is also the fall over the dam that would more than likely kill any smolt as it slid down.  A special bypass would have to be made to get the fish down the dam safely in a any number.  Smolts would make it down safe, but the odds are stacked heavily against them.

Native fish hatcheries have had minimal effects on population, if not negative effects in some ecosystems.  Hatchery fish are genetically inferior to wild stocks.  Studies done have shown less wild survival instinct such as going to sea to spawn and eating habits.  WDFW has tried many different ways of raising the fish, but all exhibit some form of domestication.  This has led to the "watering down" of many of our native Steelhead runs in the state.  This is why the hatchery on the Sol Duc was recently closed.  Anadromous Salmonids are each individually genetically distinct populations.  Each tributary of the Columbia river tributaries has its own genetic diversity.  The Mission Creek Steelhead are a genetically distinct population of the Wenatchee River run, as are all of the Wenatchees tributaries.  It is difficult to manage fish like this with hatcheries.  It also really opens your eyes to how much extinction Grand Coulee caused.  It did not extinct the species, but it did eradicate genetically individual populations forever.  Managing anadromous species like catadromous populations wont work.  The typical hatchery plant rainbow is catadromous, generally of the McKenzie strain.

Introducing a catadromous population of Chinook salmon like done in Lake Chelan would be an excellent idea imo.  Hatchery raised fish tend to do better if they are catadromous.  This would provide another fishery for the lake.  Kokanee are high on the list of food for Trips, Walleye, and Bass, when they are in the same water columns and when conditions present themselves.  Walleye and Bass will more often than not seek out easier to catch prey such as gobies or chubs as opposed to sleek fast Kokes.  Introduce Kings, manage the trips, manage for future Kokanee runs.  The walleye seem to be doing well in Roosevelt and may be stunting themselves.  Possible higher bag limits in the smaller slot size may be warranted to attempt population control.  It has been shown slot limits work well in maintaining population size and trophy quality.

It will be interesting to see how those White Sturgeon do.  We are only now seeing the massive effects the dams are having on them.  As previous generations die, I fear we may see less and less fish.  Studies have shown a very low rate of breeding Sturgeon, mainly due to lack of proper spawning conditions.  Only time will tell.

[yelp]

It would be great to see a sturgeon season.  I hooked a couple up by the kettle river jigging for walleyes last year!  I see them roll  up there every year.   

[yelp]

A lot of misinformation in this thread.

Kettle Falls was the LARGEST Sockeye Salmon run in the Columbia system.  As stated before it provided quite the bounty for tribes from all over the PNW.  IMO the tribes are attempting to re-establish the native Sockeye runs by using Kokanee as the fish cant migrate up stream past the dam.

The logistics of creating a fish ladder up around Grand Coulee is insane.  Attempting to get the fish to funnel into the ladder, then go up would be difficult.  There would need to be multiple pools along the way for fish to rest to make it up the next set of rapids.  This would take a lot of real estate as well as money to accomplish.  Even if the fish make it above the dam, theres no telling how well the molt will fare coming back down.  There is the large inlet to Banks Lake that the fish would be sucked into, hopelessly being lost in the irrigation system.  There is also the fall over the dam that would more than likely kill any smolt as it slid down.  A special bypass would have to be made to get the fish down the dam safely in a any number.  Smolts would make it down safe, but the odds are stacked heavily against them.

Native fish hatcheries have had minimal effects on population, if not negative effects in some ecosystems.  Hatchery fish are genetically inferior to wild stocks.  Studies done have shown less wild survival instinct such as going to sea to spawn and eating habits.  WDFW has tried many different ways of raising the fish, but all exhibit some form of domestication.  This has led to the "watering down" of many of our native Steelhead runs in the state.  This is why the hatchery on the Sol Duc was recently closed.  Anadromous Salmonids are each individually genetically distinct populations.  Each tributary of the Columbia river tributaries has its own genetic diversity.  The Mission Creek Steelhead are a genetically distinct population of the Wenatchee River run, as are all of the Wenatchees tributaries.  It is difficult to manage fish like this with hatcheries.  It also really opens your eyes to how much extinction Grand Coulee caused.  It did not extinct the species, but it did eradicate genetically individual populations forever.  Managing anadromous species like catadromous populations wont work.  The typical hatchery plant rainbow is catadromous, generally of the McKenzie strain.

Introducing a catadromous population of Chinook salmon like done in Lake Chelan would be an excellent idea imo.  Hatchery raised fish tend to do better if they are catadromous.  This would provide another fishery for the lake.  Kokanee are high on the list of food for Trips, Walleye, and Bass, when they are in the same water columns and when conditions present themselves.  Walleye and Bass will more often than not seek out easier to catch prey such as gobies or chubs as opposed to sleek fast Kokes.  Introduce Kings, manage the trips, manage for future Kokanee runs.  The walleye seem to be doing well in Roosevelt and may be stunting themselves.  Possible higher bag limits in the smaller slot size may be warranted to attempt population control.  It has been shown slot limits work well in maintaining population size and trophy quality.

It will be interesting to see how those White Sturgeon do.  We are only now seeing the massive effects the dams are having on them.  As previous generations die, I fear we may see less and less fish.  Studies have shown a very low rate of breeding Sturgeon, mainly due to lack of proper spawning conditions.  Only time will tell.

I agree with a lot of what you have to say Teal.  I think that it is a hard road replaceing sockeyes with kokanee.  Don't put it past a ladder not being built.. Rumor has it the Colvilles maybe looking into it with the new Salmon hatchery by Chief Joseph Dam.  I think it could be done but it would be a very large undertaking.

[teal101]

I would 100% support the construction of a ladder.  Not saying it cant be done, there is just a lot of leg work and experimentation that will need to be done to create an effective system that maximizes survival.

Agreed, it will be a long road replacing the largest Columbia River Sockeye run with Kokes.  It would be awesome to see though, that or a true Sockeye run.  The Sockeye need a lake to spawn in, and sadly, the construction of Grand Coulee destroyed almost all of their native runs.

[woodywsu]

Studies have shown a very low rate of breeding Sturgeon, mainly due to lack of proper spawning conditions.  Only time will tell.

Sturgeon have a low rate of breeding due to the time it takes to create that many eggs (5 years); not due to lack of proper spawning conditions. The latest threat to sturgeon have been sea lions and poaching. Genetics is hurting them as well due to dam passage being very minimal.

Do you think there is any chance of this program expanding into the upper river and Roosevelt?

Yes, recovery efforts are in place in the upper columbia as well.

[woodywsu]

One last point.  Burbot - a native washington fish  which also eating lots of minnows.  There was more burbot caught this spring in the spokane , hawk creek, etc than in years past.  There are more predators to blame than walleye. 

Agree, there are several predators out there, but burbot and pikeminnow are native. Walleye, smallmouth, and pike are not.  However, I think the biggest predator of all is the caspian tern, also non-native and extremely detrimental to juvenile steelhead.

I would hate to see walleye and smallmouth numbers reduced in the rivers, but there is a lot of talk about them being removed from the areas with native species struggling. But if there is reason to reduce the numbers, let the season be open to everybody with increased limits and no slot limits.

[Special T]

 

what boggles my mind is thatthe WDFW  does not really use hunters and anglers to thier full potential... There are all kinds of predators that need managing.. Why place a limit on Mergansers? Or at least a seperate limit like coots. There is no danger of having too many cornmerants here on the coast... they eat lots of fish...

[teal101]

Studies have shown a very low rate of breeding Sturgeon, mainly due to lack of proper spawning conditions.  Only time will tell.

Sturgeon have a low rate of breeding due to the time it takes to create that many eggs (5 years); not due to lack of proper spawning conditions. The latest threat to sturgeon have been sea lions and poaching. Genetics is hurting them as well due to dam passage being very minimal.

Do you think there is any chance of this program expanding into the upper river and Roosevelt?

Yes, recovery efforts are in place in the upper columbia as well.

Sturgeon have always had a low breeding rate due to egg production.  That is a well known fact.  The damming of the river has destroyed much of the suitable spawning habitat due to changes in the river flow.

"White sturgeon rely on streams, rivers, and estuarine habitat as well as marine waters during their lifecycle. White sturgeon prefer to spawn in rivers with swift currents and large cobble; no nest is built. Research indicates that water flow is one of the key determinants of larval survival. "

Much of the described habitat was lost when the dams turned the swift Columbia into a series of slow moving lakes.  While I agree the sea lions and poaching are not helping, you can not disregard the loss of critical spawning habitat.  Being that these fish live for so long it is hard to see an immediate population impact as was shown with Salmon and Steelhead.  What has been seen is a decrease in the number of spawning fish.  Just like Salmon the Sturgeon had a reliance on the ocean to bulk up and grow.  Land locking multiple populations has eliminated their ability to get to the fertile ocean and they must rely on the river for their entire life cycle, where as before the river was only for spawning and rearing.


Resources:
http://www.psmfc.org/habitat/edu_wsturg_fact.html

[teal101]

what boggles my mind is thatthe WDFW  does not really use hunters and anglers to thier full potential... There are all kinds of predators that need managing.. Why place a limit on Mergansers? Or at least a seperate limit like coots. There is no danger of having too many cornmerants here on the coast... they eat lots of fish...

The duck hunting community has been pushing for the past 2-3 years for a separate Merganser limit.  So far it has been denied.  I agree there is a lot more we as sportsman can do to help.  Cormorants and Terns need control in certain areas.

[buckcanyonlodge]

Talked to a Spokane Tribal member yesterday and they ARE doing the Bounty on walleye. Up the Spokane Arm.

[Special T]

I don't even fish anymore and i kill every damn one i legally can. They are some tough birds tho...Any clue as to the why they don't give them a seperate limit like coots? explanation? probably not.. 

[bigtex]

Why place a limit on Mergansers? Or at least a seperate limit like coots. There is no danger of having too many cornmerants here on the coast... they eat lots of fish...

All migratory birds are ultimately managed by the US Fish and Wildlife Service under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act. USFWS essentially tells WDFW (and other states) how long their seasons and limits should be, as well as some other federal laws such as 3 shell limit and no baiting. States can be even more restrictive then what USFWS says but they can't be less restrictive. So in order for a seperate limit to be applied to mergansers it would have to come from USFWS.

[Special T]

So Tex you are saying that i should be talking with my Reps and Sen about this not my state reps?

[cem3434]

One last point.  Burbot - a native washington fish  which also eating lots of minnows.  There was more burbot caught this spring in the spokane , hawk creek, etc than in years past.  There are more predators to blame than walleye. 

Agree, there are several predators out there, but burbot and pikeminnow are native. Walleye, smallmouth, and pike are not.  However, I think the biggest predator of all is the caspian tern, also non-native and extremely detrimental to juvenile steelhead.

I would hate to see walleye and smallmouth numbers reduced in the rivers, but there is a lot of talk about them being removed from the areas with native species struggling. But if there is reason to reduce the numbers, let the season be open to everybody with increased limits and no slot limits.

I couldnt agree more.