State helps protect livestock from wolves

[bearpaw]

Feed lots and calving pens are the only place you might discourage wolves. But let the state go through the motions so they can say they have tried everything. That is all this fiasco amounts to, they tried it in Oregon too and the wolves continued on a beef diet.

Open summer range is going to be a free for all for the wolves as they develop a taste for livestock in WA. Just ask the ranchers in Idaho, Montana, Oregon, and even the Stevens County Cattlemen who are missing dozens of cattle from last summer. It's the cattle that are missing that are the ranch profit, 10% loss of the gross is a hardship for any business, especially ranching where profits have been lean or non-existent for years.

[villageidiot]

A cattleman used the Lookout mt. (where the lookout pack resides) allotment lease in 2008 with aprox 50 pairs.  They have about 300 pairs most of which were in other allotments where there are no wolves.  That one cattleman lost 5 head that summer.  They never saw a carcass or anything just 5 come up missing. This was in the heart of the lookout packs territory.   The cattleman said they lose about 5 total on the whole 300 as an average but this was only on 50 head.  There is no way of confirming what kiled the cattle and of course never any compensation.  The cattleman has never used this grazing allotment and probably never will again. 
  How do we solve this problem?  Either the cattlemen goes out of business or we compensate them for % of loss over their average yearly loss.

[TWG2A]

Put money and effort to better use and put those fences around our National borders.

[TWG2A]

"The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see."
~Ayn Rand

[Special T]

This is by design, unfortunatly... It is easier for the state to do central palling when beef comes from feed lots as oposed to out on range land. Lots of groups have been trying to elimante range grazing for quite some time. Wolves seem to to be the perfect mix of trouble for "environementalists" to reduce hunting, open range ranching, and get people to move into cities. 

I know it seems  but wolves accomplish those "environmental dreams" and at the same time fill the Non Profits bank acounts with $$$ from the lawsuits. 

[TWG2A]

This is by design, unfortunatly... It is easier for the state to do central palling when beef comes from feed lots as oposed to out on range land. Lots of groups have been trying to elimante range grazing for quite some time. Wolves seem to to be the perfect mix of trouble for "environementalists" to reduce hunting, open range ranching, and get people to move into cities. 

I know it seems  but wolves accomplish those "environmental dreams" and at the same time fill the Non Profits bank acounts with $$$ from the lawsuits. 

Sadly, it's all just a piece of the MASSIVE scheme, Agenda 21.

This is a very concise overview regarding the encroachment of our rights as outlined in Agenda 21.

It's a rather lengthy read, but each and every American Citizen who still cares about our Country needs to be aware of what's happening, right in front of our eyes.  It was written by a woman who is well versed on the issue, and it's very well done, IMO. It puts things in laymans terms.

The glassy eyeds are too far gone to worry about.  Don't waste your time trying to convince them.  The rest of us need to be vigilant.


http://twg2a.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/agenda-21-overview-a-white-paper-written-by-karen-sweetland/

[humanure]

Here's an excellent documentary on the issue. Well worth your time viewing it and passing it along....

http://cryingwolfmovie.com/

 I sat down and gave this movie a chance last year... and I couldn't stop laughing. They seriously ALMOST made some very good and valid points. But almost mid-way through, just ruined any credibility they had by screaming self-bias ad relgious bigotry. Completely unprofessional. You say people like me have an agenda? That movie and it's producers take the cake on that!

Humanure, I try to respect your opinion and I will force myself to listen to your opinion but, when you throw in comments that are not mentioned in these threads you lose. I mentioned nothing about illegal activities, such as poaching as you aggressively state. Your stereotypical attitude does shine brightly and yes so does mine.

I don't see how waving some pink flags or electrical strands is going to stave off one the primer predators of all time while destroying the livelihoods of ranchers/farmers/hunters/photographers/etc.

Yes, we are all paying for this whole wolf fiasco since the beginning in 1995.

I believe you and your supporters should be paying for these trivial attempts at keeping wolves at bay (as you call it cohabitation). It seems that you are willing to allow others to work harder for their livelyhood to satisfy your personal agenda.

Lets use real solutions on predation rather than fluffy political agendas.

You are right, I needn't not bring up stuff from other threads. I just saw a typical sentiment and thought it was a bit quick-to-fire on those attitudes on this event. My bad.

Again, THOSE FLAG'S HAVE BEEN PROVEN TO WORK. You can't deny the result's. Will they be 100% effective? No, nothing is. But they do work.

Me and my supporters? Again, members of both demographics are mixed up in who supports what. You can't designate it black and white. There's too much grey area.

A cattleman used the Lookout mt. (where the lookout pack resides) allotment lease in 2008 with aprox 50 pairs.  They have about 300 pairs most of which were in other allotments where there are no wolves.  That one cattleman lost 5 head that summer.  They never saw a carcass or anything just 5 come up missing. This was in the heart of the lookout packs territory.   The cattleman said they lose about 5 total on the whole 300 as an average but this was only on 50 head.  There is no way of confirming what kiled the cattle and of course never any compensation.  The cattleman has never used this grazing allotment and probably never will again. 
  How do we solve this problem?  Either the cattlemen goes out of business or we compensate them for % of loss over their average yearly loss.

Because they don't know what killed them, we foot the bill because it MIGHT have been wolves? I don't know about that one.

[TWG2A]

"Humanure".. What an appropriate name.

Like I said.. they're too far gone to waste time with.  Better to speak to those who haven't been brainwashed.

The glassy eyeds really ought to consider filing a class action lawsuit against the so-called "schools" and "teachers" that did this to them.

[villageidiot]

OK so we have no proof the wolves killed the cows.  So you have a convicted rapist move into your neighborhood and suddenly several women get raped during the night.  We know we have a rapist that just moved in and nobody has been raped in the last umpteen years.  Now you have several rapes.  We just call it a natural phenomenon and blame the women for wearing short skirts.  We also convict the husband if he beats the daylights out of or kills the rapist.  The husband is a murderer. 
  All the ranchers will be criminals eventually unless something is changed.  They have no choice.

[humanure]

Simply put, yes. To change laws, you have to work within them.

[TWG2A]

Simply put.
"The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."
~Ayn Rand

[humanure]

*rolls eye's*

[Special T]

Humanure, You state things like the flags work and it is FACT. I would love for you to show us some documentation that backs up your arguments. Mostly what I have heard from you is how ignorant most of us are. There are a few members on this site that have done extensive scouring to find data and articles that make a case against wolves.

Please share your facts. 3rd party articles from the likes of newspapers, studies etc. I have yet to read more than a hand full of evidence that supports the pro wolf side's arguments. A quick search under the wolf topic by the member Wolfbait will bring up VOLUMES of articles by newpapers and such.

I have requested facts nicely from many people with your view, and  result is either silence, or i don't have time to dig it up for you. Since you are more enlightened that the rest of us, please share. I'm always up for a good read since i don't have cable. 

[humanure]

The article that this thread is based on tells of successful runs in Montana and Alberta. There's the MANY wolf ecology books I've read over time that tell of Russians using the fladry lines to hunt wolves. There's the farms in Oregon and Wyoming I've read in various updates and news post's that mention the lines being put to use. You can google endless articles about it. Here's an interesting site thats slightly related while glancing through a search of wolves and fladry lines: http://www.westernwolves.org/index.php/ranching-in-wolf-country

[Special T]

An excellent start, thankyou. That are the names of those Ecology  books you have read?