Piebald...or just old...?

[Pathfinder101]

A student brought these pictures into class today.  It looks to me like a piebald of some sort, but his face looks really old.
Anyone have any experience with this?  Does a piebald mutation cause a deer to look aged?  I have seen piebald deer before, and never noticed that they looked different in the face.
She said the eyes of the buck were blue, and you can see there is no pigment in his nose.  His antlers don't appear to have normal pigmentation either...

...what do you guys think..?

[runamuk]

Ok so he reminds me of the champagne gene in horses that creates a funky depigmented skin and a weird color to what would otherwise be red or black genes.  It also looks a little like the cream gene effect that some call albino in horses its not true albino if the eyes are not pink... there is no true albino in horses.  My guess is this little fella has a recessive gene of some sort and it has changed his pigmentation....man I wish the geneticist I used to talk with hadn't died, color genetics are so freaking cool to study....



this is a cremello horse

and found a champagne just for comparison...both these horses would just be regular chestnut/or sorrel for the western sorts without their modifying genes


and realistically these are only 2 of a whole huge list of gene's that change how a red horse or black horse looks.  These two seemed closest to what that deer is exhibiting.....the other option is it has acquired a disease that has lead to a de-pigmentation which also can happen in some deficiencies in horses it would be copper deficiency that usually leads to pigment loss...

[Woodchuck]

I have no idea for sure, but would speculate it is genetic. Has some strange antler growth going on to. 

[GrainfedMuley]

by the pinkish look,   Aldino?   

[Pathfinder101]

I have no idea for sure, but would speculate it is genetic. Has some strange antler growth going on to. 

Well, that's one of the things that has me thinking that it is more than just a genetic mutation.  Could be a huge old buck with antlers like that...
\
Thanks for the info Runamuk.  Interesting stuff...

[pianoman9701]

Looks like an albino gene in there somewhere. It also affects the eyes.

[Pathfinder101]

Looks like an albino gene in there somewhere. It also affects the eyes.

Not Albino.  The eyes are blue, not pink.

[JODakota]

Not albino, you guys ever see black guys with the pink pigmintation issues? Usually its in their face . Maybe the deer has that but its just spreading? Just food for thought

[pianoman9701]

Albinos can have blue eyes

[Gringo31]

He looks fairly miserable.  Cool, but miserable.

[boneaddict]

Albinos can have blue eyes

 

Actually I don't think by definition that is true.   Not sure what is going on with this critter.  I'd almost google Fallow deer or one of the exotics.   Not familiar of them, but something is off with this animal.

[runamuk]

ok after scouring the internet gonna throw this out there.....any chance this critter is in or near a farm with fallow deer?  Since there are some in this state it might account for the weird coloration and antler growth.

True albinism requires pink eyes and pink skin this animal isn't truely pink just showing a loss of pigment.  I found some info on moly mines and cervids and some accounts of pigmentation issues but nothing like this, otherwise its mostly white white tails, or the occasional herd of true albino's found mainly on ranches and private estates and those deer are all pretty much white, this deer is not white at least not in these pics it is kinda muddy light clay colored which I found a similar color readily when searching for fallow deer hence my tossing the idea in the ring....

[boneaddict]

I think its a fallow variety.  They have almost white ones and ones with spots.  This one appears to be similiar to the first if not a cross.

[runamuk]

I think its a fallow variety.  They have almost white ones and ones with spots.  This one appears to be similiar to the first if not a cross.

seems we were posting synchronized  yeah I got to thinking about the weird antlers and then it hit me what about other deer, not sure where this deer was seen but some searching and comparisons and there are a few things off about that buck besides his color...his tail struck me as odd, antler growth is just not quite right....those fallow have a huge range of colors and have been around a long time

[PlateauNDN]

Never seen one quite like that and some good info. being presented.   Curious about what region this might be in, Westside or Eastside, not looking for particulars or specifics just curious.

[Pathfinder101]

I don't think he's a fallow/cross.  He's less than a mile from my house and with a herd of other mulies.  We have no fallow deer farms in the area that I know of.  He's in the Walla Walla area.

[Timberstalker]

That is the ugliest SOB I have ever seen.  Holy cow he is ugly.  Uglier than sin!

[Old Dog]

I think what you are seeing is the same hair loss that has been affecting our blacktails for years.  I read somewhere that it had crossed the Cascades, and gotten into our mule deer herds around Yakima.  It's cause by a louse.  Lots of info on the WDFW web site.

[fish vacuum]

Weird. I'd try to get the pics to a WDFW biologist. I don't see hair missing and there isn't that much white hair. Looks more like a skin and eye issue.

[Pathfinder101]

Yeah, the closer I look at his coat, the more I think that is just ratty winter hair shedding out instead of white spots.  He has a big, healthy body.

[runamuk]

Yeah, the closer I look at his coat, the more I think that is just ratty winter hair shedding out instead of white spots.  He has a big, healthy body.

oh yeah I noticed the ratty shedding hair its the color of the pigment that is so weird around the eyes nose antlers and if the eyes are blue then it is some sort of odd genetic variant color wise....

[Pathfinder101]

From what I have been able to tell, it seems that the deer has some absence of "melanine", but not enough to make it a true albino.  Something like a piebald, but manifesting in a different way.  The blue eyes seem to agree with that, but I can't find an answer for the sagging features.  He seems otherwise healthy, so I don't think it's just age...

[mfswallace]

That is the ugliest SOB I have ever seen.  Holy cow he is ugly.  Uglier than sin!