Post by: huntingaddiction on October 09, 2014, 09:48:59 PM
Post by: sirmissalot on October 09, 2014, 09:52:35 PM
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 09, 2014, 09:55:54 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on October 09, 2014, 09:56:27 PM
You're better off even if you don't have a legal case. Get a job somewhere that the employer respects your right to defend yourself. Btw consider a lock box that is either drilled into the floor or secured by a cable lock next time.
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 09, 2014, 09:59:12 PM
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 09, 2014, 10:23:17 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on October 09, 2014, 10:27:48 PM
I 100% support your right to keep a firearm in your vehicle at work. But with that right comes the responsibility of keep it under your control in a safe manner. :twocents:
Keep us up on the research.
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 09, 2014, 10:37:14 PM
Post by: blackdog on October 09, 2014, 11:04:04 PM
Post by: blackdog on October 09, 2014, 11:10:02 PM
Post by: TONTO on October 09, 2014, 11:10:26 PM
Do you think that means kids can bring guns to school and keep them in their vehicles.
There was a time when that wasn't an issue either. In high school there was useualy a rifle in my truck, and nobody realy seemed to care :yike:
Post by: Seahawk12 on October 09, 2014, 11:32:43 PM
I don't know where you work, but can't think of very many jobs where it makes any sense at all for an employer to attempt to say whether or not you can have a gun in your vehicle.
It seems to me that if you are serious about this then you should see if you can't set up a consultation with a lawyer.
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 10, 2014, 02:45:16 AM
Post by: _TONY_ on October 10, 2014, 04:49:52 AM
I hope it pans out for you.
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 10, 2014, 05:20:21 AM
Post by: lamrith on October 10, 2014, 05:56:44 AM
- Very sorry that you not only lost your pistol, but that you lost your job. The Anti gun people really are getting rediculous.
- Unfortunately, your vehicle is on their private property, so their rules/rights trump yours. If not for the break in, it obviously was never an issue, but once found the company can take drastic action if they wish. again: The Anti gun people really are getting rediculous.
- STUDENTS are specifically exempt and not allowed to bring weapons to school per WA law. (RCW 9.41.280 states no weapons, but then subsection 3 provides exceptions which specifically note nonstudents). It has nothing to do with the school's wishes and is very different than a company making rules for their property. However It IS legal to have a gun ON SCHOOL GROUNDS and locked in your vehicle here in WA if you are not a student. If you have CPL you can even carry outside of your vehicle IF you are there picking up or dropping off your child. You may NOT however enter any school buildings with your weapon.
- I would pursue your legal options, but I have a feeling they will win out. The way the laws are here, an employer can terminate for any reason, at any time with no notice. They could just backtrack and say they didn't like the way you breath or that you forgot to put a period at the end of a sentence on some paperwork.
- You are better off not working there if they are that hardcore against our 2A rights.
Maybe share with us what your background is, we can get a HuntWa hiring service going...
Post by: Toptwo on October 10, 2014, 06:03:51 AM
Do you think that means kids can bring guns to school and keep them in their vehicles.
There was a time when that wasn't an issue either. In high school there was useualy a rifle in my truck, and nobody realy seemed to care :yike:
I have talked to many friends about this same thing. I grew up in Port Angeles, during hunting season almost every truck at school had a rifle or shotgun or both hanging in the rifle rack in the back window. As soon as school was over for the day we headed for the woods, or out to the Voice of America for some hunting...man how things have changed!
Post by: billythekidrock on October 10, 2014, 06:14:45 AM
OK I know this is going to sound crazy but my luck has been the worst today. I was working a late night shift at my company. I walked out to find my truck broken into(window smashed) and my concealed weapon gone. When I got into work this afternoon they fired me for having a firearm on company property. Saying that because it was in my locked vehicle out of sight does not make it a concealed weapon. Legally it does. I had initialed a document saying I understood firearms were not allowed on the premises including the parking lot. However, wouldn't my truck be my private property? Advice?
You initialed that you knew it was against policy to have a firearm in their parking lot.
If your firearm was stolen from your truck while it was in their parking lot there is not a lot you can do. You knowingly violated company policy in an "at will" state....Double whammy.
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 10, 2014, 06:19:54 AM
By the way if anybody is looking for a 7 year navy veteran with experience as an Avionics Electrician Technician let me know.
Post by: baldopepper on October 10, 2014, 06:22:25 AM
A company can set virtually any employment standards they want as long as they don't violate discrimination laws (age, sex, religion, race). We've run into this on the new marijuana laws. Legal to use but, if you test positive for it, we will fire you and the courts have already upheld this right of the employer. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but if you are informed prior to hiring (your initials prove you were informed) you have no legal recourse.OK I know this is going to sound crazy but my luck has been the worst today. I was working a late night shift at my company. I walked out to find my truck broken into(window smashed) and my concealed weapon gone. When I got into work this afternoon they fired me for having a firearm on company property. Saying that because it was in my locked vehicle out of sight does not make it a concealed weapon. Legally it does. I had initialed a document saying I understood firearms were not allowed on the premises including the parking lot. However, wouldn't my truck be my private property? Advice?
You initialed that you knew it was against policy to have a firearm in their parking lot.
If your firearm was stolen from your truck while it was in their parking lot there is not a lot you can do. You knowingly violated company policy in an "at will" state....Double whammy.
Post by: CP on October 10, 2014, 06:24:31 AM
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 10, 2014, 06:26:04 AM
I kind of agree with this. However there are no signs in the parking lot. My truck is legally my property no matter where it is parked.OK I know this is going to sound crazy but my luck has been the worst today. I was working a late night shift at my company. I walked out to find my truck broken into(window smashed) and my concealed weapon gone. When I got into work this afternoon they fired me for having a firearm on company property. Saying that because it was in my locked vehicle out of sight does not make it a concealed weapon. Legally it does. I had initialed a document saying I understood firearms were not allowed on the premises including the parking lot. However, wouldn't my truck be my private property? Advice?
You initialed that you knew it was against policy to have a firearm in their parking lot.
If your firearm was stolen from your truck while it was in their parking lot there is not a lot you can do. You knowingly violated company policy in an "at will" state....Double whammy.
OK I know this is going to sound crazy but my luck has been the worst today. I was working a late night shift at my company. I walked out to find my truck broken into(window smashed) and my concealed weapon gone. When I got into work this afternoon they fired me for having a firearm on company property. Saying that because it was in my locked vehicle out of sight does not make it a concealed weapon. Legally it does. I had initialed a document saying I understood firearms were not allowed on the premises including the parking lot. However, wouldn't my truck be my private property? Advice?
You initialed that you knew it was against policy to have a firearm in their parking lot.
If your firearm was stolen from your truck while it was in their parking lot there is not a lot you can do. You knowingly violated company policy in an "at will" state....Double whammy.
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 10, 2014, 06:31:45 AM
:yeah:That is interesting because I was informed after I was hired. Also that is not completely true if you read the concealed weapon laws of Washington only certain places have restricted gun use. They are stated in the law and it says nobody else can legally restrict it.A company can set virtually any employment standards they want as long as they don't violate discrimination laws (age, sex, religion, race). We've run into this on the new marijuana laws. Legal to use but, if you test positive for it, we will fire you and the courts have already upheld this right of the employer. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but if you are informed prior to hiring (your initials prove you were informed) you have no legal recourse.OK I know this is going to sound crazy but my luck has been the worst today. I was working a late night shift at my company. I walked out to find my truck broken into(window smashed) and my concealed weapon gone. When I got into work this afternoon they fired me for having a firearm on company property. Saying that because it was in my locked vehicle out of sight does not make it a concealed weapon. Legally it does. I had initialed a document saying I understood firearms were not allowed on the premises including the parking lot. However, wouldn't my truck be my private property? Advice?
You initialed that you knew it was against policy to have a firearm in their parking lot.
If your firearm was stolen from your truck while it was in their parking lot there is not a lot you can do. You knowingly violated company policy in an "at will" state....Double whammy.
Post by: xd2005 on October 10, 2014, 06:37:55 AM
I kind of agree with this. However there are no signs in the parking lot. My truck is legally my property no matter where it is parked.OK I know this is going to sound crazy but my luck has been the worst today. I was working a late night shift at my company. I walked out to find my truck broken into(window smashed) and my concealed weapon gone. When I got into work this afternoon they fired me for having a firearm on company property. Saying that because it was in my locked vehicle out of sight does not make it a concealed weapon. Legally it does. I had initialed a document saying I understood firearms were not allowed on the premises including the parking lot. However, wouldn't my truck be my private property? Advice?
You initialed that you knew it was against policy to have a firearm in their parking lot.
If your firearm was stolen from your truck while it was in their parking lot there is not a lot you can do. You knowingly violated company policy in an "at will" state....Double whammy.
However, your property was parked on their property, therefore fell under their rules. Signs do not matter, assuming it is part of your employee handbook that indicates firearms are not allowed on company grounds.
Post by: xd2005 on October 10, 2014, 06:42:29 AM
In my experience, I have always received the employee handbook post-employment (generally the first day when I get there). If this had occurred on the very first day before receiving a copy of the employee handbook, I could see feigning ignorance, however, it sounds like it was a company policy and you were aware of it prior to bringing it onto company grounds, therefore, timing of when you learned the policy seems irrelevant to me.:yeah:That is interesting because I was informed after I was hired. Also that is not completely true if you read the concealed weapon laws of Washington only certain places have restricted gun use. They are stated in the law and it says nobody else can legally restrict it.A company can set virtually any employment standards they want as long as they don't violate discrimination laws (age, sex, religion, race). We've run into this on the new marijuana laws. Legal to use but, if you test positive for it, we will fire you and the courts have already upheld this right of the employer. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but if you are informed prior to hiring (your initials prove you were informed) you have no legal recourse.OK I know this is going to sound crazy but my luck has been the worst today. I was working a late night shift at my company. I walked out to find my truck broken into(window smashed) and my concealed weapon gone. When I got into work this afternoon they fired me for having a firearm on company property. Saying that because it was in my locked vehicle out of sight does not make it a concealed weapon. Legally it does. I had initialed a document saying I understood firearms were not allowed on the premises including the parking lot. However, wouldn't my truck be my private property? Advice?
You initialed that you knew it was against policy to have a firearm in their parking lot.
If your firearm was stolen from your truck while it was in their parking lot there is not a lot you can do. You knowingly violated company policy in an "at will" state....Double whammy.
Post by: buckhorn2 on October 10, 2014, 06:46:19 AM
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 10, 2014, 06:48:43 AM
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 10, 2014, 06:49:17 AM
Post by: xd2005 on October 10, 2014, 06:52:17 AM
OK throw out the employee handbook for a minute. In Washington state when it come to concealed weapons it does not matter. They cannot be more strict than the state. It is in the States Preemption!
State preemption merely limits local governments from making laws that are more strict than state law, it does not limit private property rights.
Post by: gr8whthunter on October 10, 2014, 06:52:28 AM
Do you think that means kids can bring guns to school and keep them in their vehicles.
There was a time when that wasn't an issue either. In high school there was useualy a rifle in my truck, and nobody realy seemed to care :yike:
I have talked to many friends about this same thing. I grew up in Port Angeles, during hunting season almost every truck at school had a rifle or shotgun or both hanging in the rifle rack in the back window. As soon as school was over for the day we headed for the woods, or out to the Voice of America for some hunting...man how things have changed!
i live and grew up in port angeles as well, and when i was in high school it was the same, during hunting season there was always my rifle in my truck right in the center in between the seats uncover or other guys with a rifle in the gun rack in the back window and we had a couple ladies that drove around and did a sweep of the parking lot every day (if you remember it was shorty or mary kay? or sherel?) that was 7 years ago now though
and now i have a cousin that went to school there last year and during hunting season the teachers/staff at the high school told all the students they had to park off property if they had there hunting rifles with them but that was just the lower parking lot which wasnt a big deal its where they normally parked anyway, but staff told them that. and if they parked on premisis and teachers saw a firearm they would just go to there class and kindly remind them "hey you need to go repark" and didnt treat it as a big deal.
and sorry for your loss of job, but as my current job is, it is private property and reasonable, if having a CPL or even a peace officer card you cannot have a firearm in your vehicle on premisis or it will result in diciplinary action
Post by: Special T on October 10, 2014, 06:53:42 AM
1 Businesses are in a catch 22 if they allow firearms then they become liable if something goes wrong. EVEN if they are able to prove they are not liable for some incident it still costs them $ and lawsuits chase the deepest pocket book. They would choose the company over Joe 6 pack every chance they get. I would also point out that damages for lawsuits are not proportional to % of fault. They are proportional to the ability to pay. So the company could have 10% of the Fault but pay 90% of the judgement.
2 You likely disclosed that your gun was stolen. Even if you didn't and they found out from the Cops your still SOL because you signed the document.
Hopefully you can find another job soon that pays good that is less concerned with this. However if you do find a new job that has you sign similar paperwork a truck safe is cheep insurance to keep your gun and your job.
Im sorry for your very crappy day.
Who did you work for?
Post by: CoryTDF on October 10, 2014, 06:58:02 AM
How many of you are reading this right now at work and have a firearm in your vehicle?:hello:
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 10, 2014, 06:59:31 AM
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 10, 2014, 07:03:32 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on October 10, 2014, 07:11:22 AM
Vehicle? HA! Mine is on my hip. :tup:How many of you are reading this right now at work and have a firearm in your vehicle?:hello:
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 10, 2014, 07:13:21 AM
Post by: Russ McDonald on October 10, 2014, 08:07:49 AM
In my desk.:chuckle: you work at home that is why.
I work with a bunch of guys that carry but very few will have them in their trucks that I know of. Where I work state laws don't mean crap. Company policies are company policies. If you on their property you have to abide by them. I am sorry you lost your job and it sucks for sure. PM me I can maybe point you in the direction of some jobs.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on October 10, 2014, 08:16:47 AM
OK throw out the employee handbook for a minute. In Washington state when it come to concealed weapons it does not matter. They cannot be more strict than the state. It is in the States Preemption!
Yea they can.
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 10, 2014, 08:29:03 AM
Post by: washelkhntr on October 10, 2014, 08:33:58 AM
Not saying its you by any means, but if it is, a firearm UNDECLARED on any military installation is against federal law period. And anyone with any military service knows this.
You knew of the companies standing on firearms on thier premisis prior to your employment and accepted the employment under thier conditions. You violated the terms of employment plain and simple.
This is no different really than a business telling you to leave because you are carrying. It is PRIVATE property, they have that right.
No trying to be a jerk or flame you but this situation and bad outcome, could have easily been avoided.
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 10, 2014, 08:35:39 AM
In my desk.:chuckle: you work at home that is why.
I work with a bunch of guys that carry but very few will have them in their trucks that I know of. Where I work state laws don't mean crap. Company policies are company policies. If you on their property you have to abide by them. I am sorry you lost your job and it sucks for sure. PM me I can maybe point you in the direction of some jobs.
Yeah, but it's great telling people I never have fewer than 7 guns and 3K rounds of ammo at work. People will actually move further away from you when you tell them that. I like the effect. :)
Post by: Holg3107 on October 10, 2014, 08:40:29 AM
Quote
Ok so we will just say the company is right. What does bother me about this a little but is how many of you seem like you would just back down. There are people all over the country doing this. They are winning. We are winning the battle to keep the second amendment. That also means we can't let it slack. I have never seen so many people stand up for what you all know is wrong. Legally I did nothing wrong. I was actually the victim. We can't back down more and more judges are ruling in our favor. I love the quote “Pry my guns from my cold dead hands!". It is exactly who I am. If I can I will fight this.
No offense but you blatantly disregarded company policy and in this state companies can pretty much make up any policy that they want as long as it doesn't discriminate against gender, religion, race etc… There is nothing here to fight. You signed a document stating that you would abide by company policies and then you ignored them. You did not do anything illegal, you simply ignored the private companies policies. The only real way to fight this is to make sure that your next job is a pro 2A company.
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 10, 2014, 08:44:26 AM
Bummer deal for sure, but i have a question, did this happen on the base? Just currious as i am friends with the Chief MA and he just brought this up in conversation yesterday about a contractors vehicle being broken into and a weapon being stolen.No not on base I am not trying to go to prison. I did know about the building I did not know about the parking lot.
Not saying its you by any means, but if it is, a firearm UNDECLARED on any military installation is against federal law period. And anyone with any military service knows this.
You knew of the companies standing on firearms on thier premisis prior to your employment and accepted the employment under thier conditions. You violated the terms of employment plain and simple.
This is no different really than a business telling you to leave because you are carrying. It is PRIVATE property, they have that right.
No trying to be a jerk or flame you but this situation and bad outcome, could have easily been avoided.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 10, 2014, 09:05:40 AM
How many of you are reading this right now at work and have a firearm in your vehicle?
I have 3 in mine right now.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 10, 2014, 09:09:59 AM
Special T for now I am going to keep who I worked for to myself although I am pretty sure if any of them were on here they would know! It was a big company.
CABELAS ?? :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 10, 2014, 09:11:10 AM
Post by: Old Man Yager on October 10, 2014, 09:13:10 AM
Post by: lamrith on October 10, 2014, 09:15:47 AM
You did not break any law, but you don't have to break a law to be terminated. Our place has no gun rule, but everyone knows half the employees have them out in cars, but everyone respects rules in the building. Thankfully our mgmt uses common sense.
Post by: runningboard on October 10, 2014, 09:17:46 AM
:yeah: me too!How many of you are reading this right now at work and have a firearm in your vehicle?
I have 3 in mine right now.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 10, 2014, 10:02:08 AM
Practically speaking, spend your time and money on finding a new job.
Then get a safe for your vehicle if you will continue to lock a firearm in a vehicle.
Post by: Sandberm on October 10, 2014, 10:31:33 AM
Dont worry about us, farmings good and we didnt need her paycheck...though it was a nice addition.
Oh, and we she got fired...i got to keep my shotgun and bow.
Post by: ballpark on October 10, 2014, 10:32:28 AM
Post by: csaaphill on October 13, 2014, 08:16:44 PM
leave it to a fri****g liberal :bash:I kind of agree with this. However there are no signs in the parking lot. My truck is legally my property no matter where it is parked.OK I know this is going to sound crazy but my luck has been the worst today. I was working a late night shift at my company. I walked out to find my truck broken into(window smashed) and my concealed weapon gone. When I got into work this afternoon they fired me for having a firearm on company property. Saying that because it was in my locked vehicle out of sight does not make it a concealed weapon. Legally it does. I had initialed a document saying I understood firearms were not allowed on the premises including the parking lot. However, wouldn't my truck be my private property? Advice?
You initialed that you knew it was against policy to have a firearm in their parking lot.
If your firearm was stolen from your truck while it was in their parking lot there is not a lot you can do. You knowingly violated company policy in an "at will" state....Double whammy.
However, your property was parked on their property, therefore fell under their rules. Signs do not matter, assuming it is part of your employee handbook that indicates firearms are not allowed on company grounds.
Post by: csaaphill on October 13, 2014, 08:35:12 PM
Liberals just love this kind of thing too, for they know ahead of time that this puts us at risk too. For you have to sign these bleeping papers but if you don't do as they say and even you would have stopped an active shooter you'd still be fired. :bash: :bash:
Mass infringment regardless.
WHy because were to be able to move about and not have to worry about losing our job just because some company has some :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: policy against owning and bringing a concealed weapon in your truck for your or others self protection company in truth should not have a right to say this at all for it infringes on our second amendment rights.
Yes with the modern status quoe crap tey might but with all our forefathers warned us against and told us about NO!
SOrry to hear this sue em if you can get a good Second amendment lawyer and sue them.
Too bad most say to just move on for all that does is allow these kinds of infringements to hold and make it harder for those of us who don't compromise to stand up later.
BTW Shall not be infringed also means private sectore not just Gov Regualtion! >:(
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 13, 2014, 08:52:01 PM
BTW Shall not be infringed also means private sectore not just Gov Regualtion! >:(
You may wish this to be the case, and I might share your sentiment. But as a statement of how jurisprudence has sorted out the balance of private property rights versus other rights, including the Second Amendment, this clearly is not the case.
You probably owe XD2005 an apology for correctly stating what is, rather than stating what you assumed he would like it to be.
:twocents:
Post by: csaaphill on October 13, 2014, 09:23:43 PM
He's stated I beleive as mags has he's a liberal unless getting his Icon mixed up with another that has a similar one.
BTW Shall not be infringed also means private sectore not just Gov Regualtion! >:(
You may wish this to be the case, and I might share your sentiment. But as a statement of how jurisprudence has sorted out the balance of private property rights versus other rights, including the Second Amendment, this clearly is not the case.
You probably owe XD2005 an apology for correctly stating what is, rather than stating what you assumed he would like it to be.
:twocents:
And I did say that it is the modern trend and the law usually sides with that. But if you connect the dots the way I did it isn't right even if it's the one that wins or upheld.
Post by: csaaphill on October 13, 2014, 09:27:34 PM
Liberals will usually side like that against this guys right to self defence no matter what a law or company would say that is why I said that.
BTW Shall not be infringed also means private sectore not just Gov Regualtion! >:(
You may wish this to be the case, and I might share your sentiment. But as a statement of how jurisprudence has sorted out the balance of private property rights versus other rights, including the Second Amendment, this clearly is not the case.
You probably owe XD2005 an apology for correctly stating what is, rather than stating what you assumed he would like it to be.
:twocents:
Post by: xd2005 on October 13, 2014, 09:31:42 PM
I believe in private property rights. I also believe that business owners also retain those rights. You can disagree, that's fine, I think it's a stretch to call that a liberal ideal, however.
Post by: csaaphill on October 13, 2014, 09:35:16 PM
Your right he did say what is and not what he wants it to be but no I will only appoligise if he's not one. (a liberal that is) :chuckle:
BTW Shall not be infringed also means private sectore not just Gov Regualtion! >:(
You may wish this to be the case, and I might share your sentiment. But as a statement of how jurisprudence has sorted out the balance of private property rights versus other rights, including the Second Amendment, this clearly is not the case.
You probably owe XD2005 an apology for correctly stating what is, rather than stating what you assumed he would like it to be.
:twocents:
I never assumed anything I know that's a true statement for I've ran into those kind of things too where you have to sign crap and if you don't you dont get the job. SO no I didn't assume nothing I knew what he meant.
Post by: csaaphill on October 13, 2014, 09:36:46 PM
I'm the one of which you are thinking. You're wrong, but I'm the one.your not a liberal then?
I believe in private property rights. I also believe that business owners also retain those rights. You can disagree, that's fine, I think it's a stretch to call that a liberal ideal, however.
Post by: Dan-o on October 13, 2014, 09:52:36 PM
1. You should be able to take your firearm wherever you want - even onto another person's private property if they don't want guns there?
2. That your 2A rights are somehow constrained if a private business restricts guns on their private property?
Post by: csaaphill on October 13, 2014, 09:56:49 PM
I'm not sure I understand. Is your position that:If it's in my truck YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1. You should be able to take your firearm wherever you want - even onto another person's private property if they don't want guns there?
2. That your 2A rights are somehow constrained if a private business restricts guns on their private property? because he got fired!
If it's on my person and concealed YES YES too because it's one of the rights written in the bill of rights and helps protect all others
Post by: Dan-o on October 13, 2014, 10:11:40 PM
Your right to carry your firearm onto my private property trumps my right to do with my private property as I will?
By the way, I'm a supporter of 2A rights..... I'm also a supporter of private property rights. I figure if I don't want people walking on my wood floors in their shoes, that's my right. I figure you've got a right to shoes (whether you conceal them or not) but in my house or on my property, it's my rules.....
If it's your property, then your rules. If I don't like your rules, I don't have to go on your property.
Post by: Dan-o on October 13, 2014, 10:17:42 PM
(or even likely infers) a person the right to carry firearms onto another person's private property against the property owner's wishes?
Post by: csaaphill on October 13, 2014, 10:34:50 PM
P.S. I have at least a passing familiarity with the Bill of Rights........ Where do you see that it givesFor one when adopted they have tons of quotes about this issue.
(or even likely infers) a person the right to carry firearms onto another person's private property against the property owner's wishes?
The Constitution shall never be construed … to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. – Samuel Adams
The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed. – Alexander Hamilton
A strong body makes a strong mind. As to the species of exercise I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion of your walks. – Thomas Jefferson
I like that one for it uses the conceptof being armed when walking or wherever one would go.
Many other quotes too.
Pitting theBillof rights vs what modern day people think of as rights is wrong and only leads to tyranny either of the Gov kind or other forms.
I hear North Korea oR China are looking for Collective thinkers GO!
Post by: csaaphill on October 13, 2014, 10:51:49 PM
Noah Webster
American Lexicographer
Saying that one can't work here because they dont' want guns on the property is doing just this: That person is becoming a master of some sort.
Post by: csaaphill on October 13, 2014, 11:06:22 PM
I see right threw what you people try to show as a Patriotic show of standing up for Private proprty, but for me it wont work.
Can't disarm us one way you will try to disarm us another ;)
Others may not see it but I do. For saying anyone who works here has to sign this paper stating you wont bring gun to work even if it's locked in your car or pickup is a clear violation of the second amendments true meaning.
WHile it may not be a clear disarming as a cop coming to your house and conficating your guns, but if you can't take it in your car or pickup while at work it might as well be and I see this as just another bit of liberal rheteric that is pitting one right against another, then using the Majority and opinion to rule and use law against that individule.
People truly need to see past these things and learn to see how something is going to affect you before voting and or allowing these kinds of things.
hence:
Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel exactly has this kind of situation in mind.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 14, 2014, 05:48:34 AM
Post by: xd2005 on October 14, 2014, 07:17:42 AM
I'm the one of which you are thinking. You're wrong, but I'm the one.your not a liberal then?
I believe in private property rights. I also believe that business owners also retain those rights. You can disagree, that's fine, I think it's a stretch to call that a liberal ideal, however.
Where are you going with this? Are you saying if someone disagrees with you, they are liberal? Are you saying that if a liberal says 2+2=4, they're wrong, because they are a liberal? Just because I believe in property rights and also believe that there are legitimate reasons to limit firearms possession (such as felons, while you have made clear you believe everyone should be able to own a gun, period), I do not believe that makes me a liberal. You can call me what you would like to feel better about yourself, I do not really care.
Post by: Special T on October 14, 2014, 08:11:30 AM
No worries huntingaddiction, some of my points where not response to you, just clarifying some misconceptions on carry laws I saw.
You did not break any law, but you don't have to break a law to be terminated. Our place has no gun rule, but everyone knows half the employees have them out in cars, but everyone respects rules in the building. Thankfully our mgmt uses common sense.
Part of this is the plausible deny-ability that it provides the company. It insulates them from liability if some employee, or thief takes the gun and kills some one with it. Its kind of a wink and a nod agreement. HOWEVER if it comes to the companies attention they MUST fire the person to keep protecting the company because if they make an exemption then their open to liability.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on October 14, 2014, 08:16:18 AM
I'm the one of which you are thinking. You're wrong, but I'm the one.your not a liberal then?
I believe in private property rights. I also believe that business owners also retain those rights. You can disagree, that's fine, I think it's a stretch to call that a liberal ideal, however.
Where are you going with this? Are you saying if someone disagrees with you, they are liberal? Are you saying that if a liberal says 2+2=4, they're wrong, because they are a liberal?
Standard fare here
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 14, 2014, 08:19:51 AM
I'm not sure I understand. Is your position that:Timeout how is a corporation a private business when they get so much help from the government!
1. You should be able to take your firearm wherever you want - even onto another person's private property if they don't want guns there?
2. That your 2A rights are somehow constrained if a private business restricts guns on their private property?
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 14, 2014, 08:28:36 AM
I know a GUN RIGHTS LAWYER who hates the liberal, gun grabbers. He's out of Woodinville.Campmeat pm me?
Post by: Stein on October 14, 2014, 08:29:31 AM
It sucks getting fired, but as a private property owner and employer they make the rules. Play, don't play or play and try not to get caught.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on October 14, 2014, 08:32:36 AM
I'm not sure I understand. Is your position that:Timeout how is a corporation a private business when they get so much help from the government!
1. You should be able to take your firearm wherever you want - even onto another person's private property if they don't want guns there?
2. That your 2A rights are somehow constrained if a private business restricts guns on their private property?
Then there are no such things as private business? Is private business helped or hindered by the government? Where you got fired from, did they receive business or "help" from the government?
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 14, 2014, 08:38:56 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on October 14, 2014, 08:51:24 AM
They get both. I disagree with a lot you are saying. A private business is not private property. And if it is let's go talk to all the shareholders in the company and see what they think.
I didn't "say" anything, I asked questions for you to answer.
And if it is let's go talk to all the shareholders in the company and see what they think.
You are free to buy stock in the company, attend a share holds meeting and petition the board.
Heck, you can even run for COB.
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 14, 2014, 08:58:55 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on October 14, 2014, 09:06:34 AM
OK your right you asked questions. I am just a little irritated. You know you come on this site for this kind of issue you would think you have some support. What I see for the most part is a bunch of gun owners with no backbone. The cops will show up to your door and take your guns. Not me.
No one but the thief took your gun. You were fired for breaking company rules on company property, and your only defense seems to be is that private companies are not private companies and private (or privately controlled) property is not, because of "help" they may or may not receive from the Government.
What am I missing?
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 14, 2014, 09:26:21 AM
I'm the one of which you are thinking. You're wrong, but I'm the one.your not a liberal then?
I believe in private property rights. I also believe that business owners also retain those rights. You can disagree, that's fine, I think it's a stretch to call that a liberal ideal, however.
Where are you going with this? Are you saying if someone disagrees with you, they are liberal? Are you saying that if a liberal says 2+2=4, they're wrong, because they are a liberal?
Standard fare here
Not quite, but whatever hyperbole floats your boat. csaaphill is taking it to extremes. I would agree with XD2005's assessment of current jurisprudence, and I don't think I have ever been accused of being a liberal.
Post by: Mike450r on October 14, 2014, 09:33:07 AM
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 14, 2014, 09:48:32 AM
You know your right they have drug testing yet when somebody I know failed she kept her job. I have heard other stories of it too. Some of the bosses involvements. Its all politics. I had only had the job for about a month. They were supposed to have security in the parking lot. They do just not on my shift. “There weren't enough people there.” But I'm not allowed carry. I got a really good idea here if you don't like it stop reading it. I was trying to get some advice not listen to you preach your version of how you think it goes. Unfortunately there is a lot to this.OK your right you asked questions. I am just a little irritated. You know you come on this site for this kind of issue you would think you have some support. What I see for the most part is a bunch of gun owners with no backbone. The cops will show up to your door and take your guns. Not me.
No one but the thief took your gun. You were fired for breaking company rules on company property, and your only defense seems to be is that private companies are not private companies and private (or privately controlled) property is not, because of "help" they may or may not receive from the Government.
What am I missing?
WOW, four pages and counting.
First off sorry for you losing your firearm and your job. Times are tough enough wihtout making it worse.
I don't blame you for being irritated, you should be. You should be irritated that something so simple as following the rules associated with your employment has cost you your job and your livelihood.
Q: Does your former employer drug test?
Q: Does your former employer do back ground checks?
Q: Would you have objected to anyone losing their job for failing to pass those tests?
Q: How about your employers rules about calling in sick?
Why just this rule, the gun rule? Why is it that this "CONDITION" of your employment doesn't apply when all the others do?
Something to think about.
I once sold some stuff on Craigslist. When the guy buying my old hunting boat showed up he accidentally showed his carry pistol on his hip. I stopped him at the driveway and instructed him to move over to the fence and clear his pistol before coming any further. My property my rules. To his credit he complied and we did business. If he had failed to I would have ordered him off my property and if he argued had him arrested.
Place blame where it needs to be placed. If you hadn't failed to follow company policy you would not have lost your job. Sucks but true. We all make mistakes, and sometimes they jump up and bite us in the ass. Luckily every job I ever lost led to a better job down the line. Good luck to you.
Post by: Bob33 on October 14, 2014, 09:48:49 AM
Many employers are far more concerned with the potential liability of having a firearms related incident occur on their property than they are about protecting someone’s right to possess a firearm on their property.
Working for an employer that doesn’t provide adequate security for employee vehicles, and would fire an employee under these circumstances would cause me to seek employment elsewhere.
Legal action is not likely to result in a favorable outcome for you, and most likely wouldn’t help your chances of getting employed elsewhere.
Post by: TheHunt on October 14, 2014, 09:52:40 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on October 14, 2014, 09:53:35 AM
I don't blame you for being irritated, you should be. You should be irritated that something so simple as following the rules associated with your employment has cost you your job and your livelihood.http://safelelo.com (http://safelelo.com)
Q: Does your former employer drug test?
Q: Does your former employer do back ground checks?
Q: Would you have objected to anyone losing their job for failing to pass those tests?
Q: How about your employers rules about calling in sick?
Why just this rule, the gun rule? Why is it that this "CONDITION" of your employment doesn't apply when all the others do?
Something to think about.
I once sold some stuff on Craigslist. When the guy buying my old hunting boat showed up he accidentally showed his carry pistol on his hip. I stopped him at the driveway and instructed him to move over to the fence and clear his pistol before coming any further. My property my rules. To his credit he complied and we did business. If he had failed to I would have ordered him off my property and if he argued I would have had him arrested.
Place blame where it needs to be placed. If you hadn't failed to follow company policy you would not have lost your job. Sucks but true. We all make mistakes, and sometimes they jump up and bite us in the ass. Luckily every job I ever lost led to a better job down the line. Good luck to you.
Would have saved his job and prevented a crook with a gun
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 14, 2014, 09:54:14 AM
There is no federal or state law in Washington state which prohibits a private employer from having a policy which bans guns on their premises. You voluntarily agreed to work for the employer, and voluntarily agreed to abide by their policies. I don’t believe you have any legal recourse for the termination.
Many employers are far more concerned with the potential liability of having a firearms related incident occur on their property than they are about protecting someone’s right to possess a firearm on their property.
Working for an employer that doesn’t provide adequate security for employee vehicles, and would fire an employee under these circumstances would cause me to seek employment elsewhere.
Legal action is not likely to result in a favorable outcome for you, and most likely wouldn’t help your chances of getting employed elsewhere.
But it would likely keep some shyster lawyer in beer and sammiches for a while. I reiterate. Sorry for your loss, but your time and money is better spent seeking new employment.
Post by: csaaphill on October 14, 2014, 10:05:00 AM
looks like divide and conquere works even in our ranks :bash:
If you sue let me/us know if not oh well.
Moving on might be the easiest way but not always the best.
looks like old dead peoples quotes have no bearing in our society for if it did you wouldn't hear some of these ludricous responces!
LEt me know when people have a back bone!
One of these days you wont have no where else to go but to comply completly with them or turn them in which is where this is going! :'(
"On every question of construction (of the Constitution) let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." (Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823, The Complete Jefferson, p. 322)
"The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals.... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." (Albert Gallatin of the New York Historical Society, October 7, 1789)
won't or don't mean much but there you go still!
Post by: jay.sharkbait on October 14, 2014, 11:37:05 AM
The company I work for does not allow weapons on the property. So I leave mine at home. Sorry to hear about your situation.
The company I work for encourages it's employees to be armed at all times :)
Crazy............
Post by: Dan-o on October 14, 2014, 06:01:53 PM
It is just as wrong for the government to mandate that a business must permit “open carry” or “concealed carry” on its property as it is for the government to mandate that a business must not permit “open carry” or “concealed carry” on its property. And any American has the natural right to possess any weapon on his own property or the property of anyone else that allows such weapons.
Post by: Special T on October 14, 2014, 08:44:03 PM
Post by: csaaphill on October 14, 2014, 10:15:11 PM
how is showing truth extreme?I'm the one of which you are thinking. You're wrong, but I'm the one.your not a liberal then?
I believe in private property rights. I also believe that business owners also retain those rights. You can disagree, that's fine, I think it's a stretch to call that a liberal ideal, however.
Where are you going with this? Are you saying if someone disagrees with you, they are liberal? Are you saying that if a liberal says 2+2=4, they're wrong, because they are a liberal?
Standard fare here
Not quite, but whatever hyperbole floats your boat. csaaphill is taking it to extremes. I would agree with XD2005's assessment of current jurisprudence, and I don't think I have ever been accused of being a liberal.
Guess what our forefathers were extremists so ya!
Post by: csaaphill on October 14, 2014, 10:20:16 PM
maybe but they are were wrong the bill of rights should of never been pitted agianst others.
BTW Shall not be infringed also means private sectore not just Gov Regualtion! >:(
You may wish this to be the case, and I might share your sentiment. But as a statement of how jurisprudence has sorted out the balance of private property rights versus other rights, including the Second Amendment, this clearly is not the case.
You probably owe XD2005 an apology for correctly stating what is, rather than stating what you assumed he would like it to be.
:twocents:
Yes we know the tenth amendment stated that rights not enumerated in the bill of rights belong to the states, but truth has been lost. Only stating the truth if that's extreme then so beit but you can't argue for all I've shown and stated were truths of what our forefathers stated.
Post by: csaaphill on October 14, 2014, 10:25:18 PM
OK your right you asked questions. I am just a little irritated. You know you come on this site for this kind of issue you would think you have some support. What I see for the most part is a bunch of gun owners with no backbone. The cops will show up to your door and take your guns. Not me.noticed you said somehing about advice sorry ya caught up in the situation. Take Campmeats lawyer and run with it if there is any kind of case go for it.
I too have kind of befreinded a gun lawyer or one I think would represent me if I for some odd reason have a boat accident and anything I might have had gets lost in the swamp or something :chuckle:
that's why no more Repubs and democraps for me either Libertarians or constitutional candidates!
Post by: bowbuild on October 14, 2014, 10:55:53 PM
You know your right they have drug testing yet when somebody I know failed she kept her job. I have heard other stories of it too. Some of the bosses involvements. Its all politics. I had only had the job for about a month. They were supposed to have security in the parking lot. They do just not on my shift. “There weren't enough people there.” But I'm not allowed carry. I got a really good idea here if you don't like it stop reading it. I was trying to get some advice not listen to you preach your version of how you think it goes. Unfortunately there is a lot to this.OK your right you asked questions. I am just a little irritated. You know you come on this site for this kind of issue you would think you have some support. What I see for the most part is a bunch of gun owners with no backbone. The cops will show up to your door and take your guns. Not me.
No one but the thief took your gun. You were fired for breaking company rules on company property, and your only defense seems to be is that private companies are not private companies and private (or privately controlled) property is not, because of "help" they may or may not receive from the Government.
What am I missing?
WOW, four pages and counting.
First off sorry for you losing your firearm and your job. Times are tough enough wihtout making it worse.
I don't blame you for being irritated, you should be. You should be irritated that something so simple as following the rules associated with your employment has cost you your job and your livelihood.
Q: Does your former employer drug test?
Q: Does your former employer do back ground checks?
Q: Would you have objected to anyone losing their job for failing to pass those tests?
Q: How about your employers rules about calling in sick?
Why just this rule, the gun rule? Why is it that this "CONDITION" of your employment doesn't apply when all the others do?
Something to think about.
I once sold some stuff on Craigslist. When the guy buying my old hunting boat showed up he accidentally showed his carry pistol on his hip. I stopped him at the driveway and instructed him to move over to the fence and clear his pistol before coming any further. My property my rules. To his credit he complied and we did business. If he had failed to I would have ordered him off my property and if he argued had him arrested.
Place blame where it needs to be placed. If you hadn't failed to follow company policy you would not have lost your job. Sucks but true. We all make mistakes, and sometimes they jump up and bite us in the ass. Luckily every job I ever lost led to a better job down the line. Good luck to you.
Anything in your paperwork from your employer that stated that YOUR personal property would receieve "reasonable" protection from vandalism? You need to rethink how you attack this if you are going to try. First if there is a security company, they should log what times they are there, and were they logging their times?? Was there security cameras on the building, or other buildings that you could get info from? If so, you may be able to find out whether the time of the break in accurred in the time frame the security officer should have, and logged he was on site.....hell you may find the idiot that stole it.
You by the slimmest chance in hell with paperwork to back you up be able to prove the employer themselves is to blame for lack of security......and therefore.....but it is a slim chance in hell. :tup:
Bowbuild
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 14, 2014, 11:00:14 PM
Well they have security cameras but when I asked about those told me they wouldn't look at them because I broke the policy.You know your right they have drug testing yet when somebody I know failed she kept her job. I have heard other stories of it too. Some of the bosses involvements. Its all politics. I had only had the job for about a month. They were supposed to have security in the parking lot. They do just not on my shift. “There weren't enough people there.” But I'm not allowed carry. I got a really good idea here if you don't like it stop reading it. I was trying to get some advice not listen to you preach your version of how you think it goes. Unfortunately there is a lot to this.OK your right you asked questions. I am just a little irritated. You know you come on this site for this kind of issue you would think you have some support. What I see for the most part is a bunch of gun owners with no backbone. The cops will show up to your door and take your guns. Not me.
No one but the thief took your gun. You were fired for breaking company rules on company property, and your only defense seems to be is that private companies are not private companies and private (or privately controlled) property is not, because of "help" they may or may not receive from the Government.
What am I missing?
WOW, four pages and counting.
First off sorry for you losing your firearm and your job. Times are tough enough wihtout making it worse.
I don't blame you for being irritated, you should be. You should be irritated that something so simple as following the rules associated with your employment has cost you your job and your livelihood.
Q: Does your former employer drug test?
Q: Does your former employer do back ground checks?
Q: Would you have objected to anyone losing their job for failing to pass those tests?
Q: How about your employers rules about calling in sick?
Why just this rule, the gun rule? Why is it that this "CONDITION" of your employment doesn't apply when all the others do?
Something to think about.
I once sold some stuff on Craigslist. When the guy buying my old hunting boat showed up he accidentally showed his carry pistol on his hip. I stopped him at the driveway and instructed him to move over to the fence and clear his pistol before coming any further. My property my rules. To his credit he complied and we did business. If he had failed to I would have ordered him off my property and if he argued had him arrested.
Place blame where it needs to be placed. If you hadn't failed to follow company policy you would not have lost your job. Sucks but true. We all make mistakes, and sometimes they jump up and bite us in the ass. Luckily every job I ever lost led to a better job down the line. Good luck to you.
Anything in your paperwork from your employer that stated that YOUR personal property would receieve "reasonable" protection from vandalism? You need to rethink how you attack this if you are going to try. First if there is a security company, they should log what times they are there, and were they logging their times?? Was there security cameras on the building, or other buildings that you could get info from? If so, you may be able to find out whether the time of the break in accurred in the time frame the security officer should have, and logged he was on site.....hell you may find the idiot that stole it.
You by the slimmest chance in hell with paperwork to back you up be able to prove the employer themselves is to blame for lack of security......and therefore.....but it is a slim chance in hell. :tup:
Bowbuild
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 14, 2014, 11:00:45 PM
Well they have security cameras but when I asked about those told me they wouldn't look at them because I broke the policy.You know your right they have drug testing yet when somebody I know failed she kept her job. I have heard other stories of it too. Some of the bosses involvements. Its all politics. I had only had the job for about a month. They were supposed to have security in the parking lot. They do just not on my shift. “There weren't enough people there.” But I'm not allowed carry. I got a really good idea here if you don't like it stop reading it. I was trying to get some advice not listen to you preach your version of how you think it goes. Unfortunately there is a lot to this.OK your right you asked questions. I am just a little irritated. You know you come on this site for this kind of issue you would think you have some support. What I see for the most part is a bunch of gun owners with no backbone. The cops will show up to your door and take your guns. Not me.
No one but the thief took your gun. You were fired for breaking company rules on company property, and your only defense seems to be is that private companies are not private companies and private (or privately controlled) property is not, because of "help" they may or may not receive from the Government.
What am I missing?
WOW, four pages and counting.
First off sorry for you losing your firearm and your job. Times are tough enough wihtout making it worse.
I don't blame you for being irritated, you should be. You should be irritated that something so simple as following the rules associated with your employment has cost you your job and your livelihood.
Q: Does your former employer drug test?
Q: Does your former employer do back ground checks?
Q: Would you have objected to anyone losing their job for failing to pass those tests?
Q: How about your employers rules about calling in sick?
Why just this rule, the gun rule? Why is it that this "CONDITION" of your employment doesn't apply when all the others do?
Something to think about.
I once sold some stuff on Craigslist. When the guy buying my old hunting boat showed up he accidentally showed his carry pistol on his hip. I stopped him at the driveway and instructed him to move over to the fence and clear his pistol before coming any further. My property my rules. To his credit he complied and we did business. If he had failed to I would have ordered him off my property and if he argued had him arrested.
Place blame where it needs to be placed. If you hadn't failed to follow company policy you would not have lost your job. Sucks but true. We all make mistakes, and sometimes they jump up and bite us in the ass. Luckily every job I ever lost led to a better job down the line. Good luck to you.
Anything in your paperwork from your employer that stated that YOUR personal property would receieve "reasonable" protection from vandalism? You need to rethink how you attack this if you are going to try. First if there is a security company, they should log what times they are there, and were they logging their times?? Was there security cameras on the building, or other buildings that you could get info from? If so, you may be able to find out whether the time of the break in accurred in the time frame the security officer should have, and logged he was on site.....hell you may find the idiot that stole it.
You by the slimmest chance in hell with paperwork to back you up be able to prove the employer themselves is to blame for lack of security......and therefore.....but it is a slim chance in hell. :tup:
Bowbuild
Post by: sakoshooter on October 15, 2014, 12:09:04 AM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 15, 2014, 01:34:58 AM
how is showing truth extreme?
Not quite, but whatever hyperbole floats your boat. csaaphill is taking it to extremes. I would agree with XD2005's assessment of current jurisprudence, and I don't think I have ever been accused of being a liberal.
Guess what our forefathers were extremists so ya!
1. You saying that whoever disagrees with you is a liberal is extreme.
2. Your truth does not jive with objective reality. But you refuse to entertain that you are mistaken.
3. While it is clearly your wish (and mine, to some extent) that what you describe be the state of affairs, you don't recognize it as a wish.
4. Yes, our forefathers were extremist, and we are the beneficiaries of their extremism. But that still does not make your reference to them anything more than a strawman. Nor does it make the argument - that what you wish the state of affairs to be is ACTUALLY the state of affairs - anything more than a non sequitor.
5. Some states have laws that prevent employers from making policy about storing lawful guns in locked cars in their parking lots. See TX. WA does not.
http://www.cozen.com/cozendocs/Outgoing/alerts/2013/Guns_in_Workplace_Chart.pdf (http://www.cozen.com/cozendocs/Outgoing/alerts/2013/Guns_in_Workplace_Chart.pdf)
6. It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift
http://www.littler.com/files/press/pdf/Mathiason-Milano-Bring-Gun-Work-June-2013.pdf (http://www.littler.com/files/press/pdf/Mathiason-Milano-Bring-Gun-Work-June-2013.pdf)
OK your right you asked questions. I am just a little irritated. You know you come on this site for this kind of issue you would think you have some support. What I see for the most part is a bunch of gun owners with no backbone. The cops will show up to your door and take your guns. Not me.
I'm sorry you are irritated. You seem to think it's a good idea to fight, centered on a 2A infringement argument. People who follow such things are giving you their opinion on such things. It's a stretch to say that people who believe you have a loser argument would knuckle under in the face of mass door-to-door confiscations.
Read the second link and recognize this: If the 2A is absolute over private property rights (re: guns in parking lots) why would states need to be passing additional protections for gun owners (where WA has not)?
Good luck to you as you move forward with whatever course.
Post by: bowbuild on October 15, 2014, 11:20:12 AM
Well they have security cameras but when I asked about those told me they wouldn't look at them because I broke the policy.You know your right they have drug testing yet when somebody I know failed she kept her job. I have heard other stories of it too. Some of the bosses involvements. Its all politics. I had only had the job for about a month. They were supposed to have security in the parking lot. They do just not on my shift. “There weren't enough people there.” But I'm not allowed carry. I got a really good idea here if you don't like it stop reading it. I was trying to get some advice not listen to you preach your version of how you think it goes. Unfortunately there is a lot to this.OK your right you asked questions. I am just a little irritated. You know you come on this site for this kind of issue you would think you have some support. What I see for the most part is a bunch of gun owners with no backbone. The cops will show up to your door and take your guns. Not me.
No one but the thief took your gun. You were fired for breaking company rules on company property, and your only defense seems to be is that private companies are not private companies and private (or privately controlled) property is not, because of "help" they may or may not receive from the Government.
What am I missing?
WOW, four pages and counting.
First off sorry for you losing your firearm and your job. Times are tough enough wihtout making it worse.
I don't blame you for being irritated, you should be. You should be irritated that something so simple as following the rules associated with your employment has cost you your job and your livelihood.
Q: Does your former employer drug test?
Q: Does your former employer do back ground checks?
Q: Would you have objected to anyone losing their job for failing to pass those tests?
Q: How about your employers rules about calling in sick?
Why just this rule, the gun rule? Why is it that this "CONDITION" of your employment doesn't apply when all the others do?
Something to think about.
I once sold some stuff on Craigslist. When the guy buying my old hunting boat showed up he accidentally showed his carry pistol on his hip. I stopped him at the driveway and instructed him to move over to the fence and clear his pistol before coming any further. My property my rules. To his credit he complied and we did business. If he had failed to I would have ordered him off my property and if he argued had him arrested.
Place blame where it needs to be placed. If you hadn't failed to follow company policy you would not have lost your job. Sucks but true. We all make mistakes, and sometimes they jump up and bite us in the ass. Luckily every job I ever lost led to a better job down the line. Good luck to you.
Anything in your paperwork from your employer that stated that YOUR personal property would receieve "reasonable" protection from vandalism? You need to rethink how you attack this if you are going to try. First if there is a security company, they should log what times they are there, and were they logging their times?? Was there security cameras on the building, or other buildings that you could get info from? If so, you may be able to find out whether the time of the break in accurred in the time frame the security officer should have, and logged he was on site.....hell you may find the idiot that stole it.
You by the slimmest chance in hell with paperwork to back you up be able to prove the employer themselves is to blame for lack of security......and therefore.....but it is a slim chance in hell. :tup:
Bowbuild
So I suspect they "may" have evidence of a federal crime, and the police don't have access?? Something is fishy here. Contact the police department and find out whether they have a copy of the video......if they do, they (the police) I would think would want you to see it so you possibly could ID the person in question. The company has NO RIGHTS as far as I know to keep possible evidence from a active investigation....infact that I believe is a crimminal act itself. :bdid:
I would contact a lawyer, and bring EVERYTHING you have, and let him/her figure it out.
Post by: BIGINNER on October 15, 2014, 11:57:48 AM
Post by: Russ McDonald on October 15, 2014, 01:34:00 PM
:yeah: Very much agree with that.Well they have security cameras but when I asked about those told me they wouldn't look at them because I broke the policy.You know your right they have drug testing yet when somebody I know failed she kept her job. I have heard other stories of it too. Some of the bosses involvements. Its all politics. I had only had the job for about a month. They were supposed to have security in the parking lot. They do just not on my shift. “There weren't enough people there.” But I'm not allowed carry. I got a really good idea here if you don't like it stop reading it. I was trying to get some advice not listen to you preach your version of how you think it goes. Unfortunately there is a lot to this.OK your right you asked questions. I am just a little irritated. You know you come on this site for this kind of issue you would think you have some support. What I see for the most part is a bunch of gun owners with no backbone. The cops will show up to your door and take your guns. Not me.
No one but the thief took your gun. You were fired for breaking company rules on company property, and your only defense seems to be is that private companies are not private companies and private (or privately controlled) property is not, because of "help" they may or may not receive from the Government.
What am I missing?
WOW, four pages and counting.
First off sorry for you losing your firearm and your job. Times are tough enough wihtout making it worse.
I don't blame you for being irritated, you should be. You should be irritated that something so simple as following the rules associated with your employment has cost you your job and your livelihood.
Q: Does your former employer drug test?
Q: Does your former employer do back ground checks?
Q: Would you have objected to anyone losing their job for failing to pass those tests?
Q: How about your employers rules about calling in sick?
Why just this rule, the gun rule? Why is it that this "CONDITION" of your employment doesn't apply when all the others do?
Something to think about.
I once sold some stuff on Craigslist. When the guy buying my old hunting boat showed up he accidentally showed his carry pistol on his hip. I stopped him at the driveway and instructed him to move over to the fence and clear his pistol before coming any further. My property my rules. To his credit he complied and we did business. If he had failed to I would have ordered him off my property and if he argued had him arrested.
Place blame where it needs to be placed. If you hadn't failed to follow company policy you would not have lost your job. Sucks but true. We all make mistakes, and sometimes they jump up and bite us in the ass. Luckily every job I ever lost led to a better job down the line. Good luck to you.
Anything in your paperwork from your employer that stated that YOUR personal property would receieve "reasonable" protection from vandalism? You need to rethink how you attack this if you are going to try. First if there is a security company, they should log what times they are there, and were they logging their times?? Was there security cameras on the building, or other buildings that you could get info from? If so, you may be able to find out whether the time of the break in accurred in the time frame the security officer should have, and logged he was on site.....hell you may find the idiot that stole it.
You by the slimmest chance in hell with paperwork to back you up be able to prove the employer themselves is to blame for lack of security......and therefore.....but it is a slim chance in hell. :tup:
Bowbuild
So I suspect they "may" have evidence of a federal crime, and the police don't have access?? Something is fishy here. Contact the police department and find out whether they have a copy of the video......if they do, they (the police) I would think would want you to see it so you possibly could ID the person in question. The company has NO RIGHTS as far as I know to keep possible evidence from a active investigation....infact that I believe is a crimminal act itself. :bdid:
I would contact a lawyer, and bring EVERYTHING you have, and let him/her figure it out.
Post by: Dan-o on October 15, 2014, 06:36:00 PM
OK your right you asked questions. I am just a little irritated. You know you come on this site for this kind of issue you would think you have some support. What I see for the most part is a bunch of gun owners with no backbone. The cops will show up to your door and take your guns. Not me.noticed you said somehing about advice sorry ya caught up in the situation. Take Campmeats lawyer and run with it if there is any kind of case go for it.
I too have kind of befreinded a gun lawyer or one I think would represent me if I for some odd reason have a boat accident and anything I might have had gets lost in the swamp or something :chuckle:
that's why no more Repubs and democraps for me either Libertarians or constitutional candidates!
You crack me up..... touting your Libertarianism, because you think you should be able to impose your will by walking onto my private property armed even if I don't want you on my property that way.
Meanwhile, you could care less about my private property rights. Nothing like selectively choosing who's rights to protect.
And none of your quotes from the founders suggest that a man should be free to walk armed onto another man's property against that man's will....... Unless you willfully choose to misread them in a delusional manner.
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 15, 2014, 06:52:18 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on October 15, 2014, 07:00:14 PM
In which case this could get horrible.
How could it get horrible?
Post by: huntingaddiction on October 15, 2014, 07:05:27 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on October 15, 2014, 07:08:41 PM
Post by: JJB11B on October 15, 2014, 07:09:59 PM
How many of you are reading this right now at work and have a firearm in your vehicle?Me, My truck is usually packed for war lol
Post by: xd2005 on October 15, 2014, 07:10:17 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 16, 2014, 06:57:51 AM
Post by: Magnum40 on October 16, 2014, 12:33:22 PM
Also if you are a member of the NRA or other gun rights group they have attorneys who may help. Worth a phone call right?
Don't listen to some of these guys...just becuase you can be fired for cause or no cause doesn't mean you can't get an attorney involved and possibly sue if it comes to that. You can also search for local case law, news articles etc. because I'm sure this has come up before.