SHOCKWAVE!

[Mongo Hunter]

Whos really wanting to pick one of these up?!

http://www.mossberg.com/category/series/590-shockwave/

I know there's a huge debate on the usefulness of a PGO shotgun. To me its a compromise, no different than a snub nose .357 or a AR Pistol. Sacrificing some comfort and ease to get concealability and maneuverability. The business end is still a 12 gauge, Clint Smith of Thunder ranch did a really good video on it showing how to use it effectively for those non believers out there.

Waiting to see these pop up on store shelves to I can buy one, would be a great truck gun!

[Fl0und3rz]

Grey area for WA? 

http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.010

https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.190

[Mongo Hunter]

There's a few videos out there on this topic but I can give you the bullet points.

The 590 shockwave is by legal definition a "firearm". it was never manufactured as a shotgun which require the barrel to be at least 18".

Its also not an AOW because it hits the mark of 26" in overall length because of the "stock" it has.

So its 100% legal to own without an SBS or AOW tax stamp.

[Fl0und3rz]

The link you provided specifically notes that these may run afoul of state law.  I provided links to state law and tossed it out there that, in WA, these may be in a grey area.   YMMV.

[Mongo Hunter]

Well there's a few owners of these already in Washington. so if its a grey area buy them now before they catch on.

[Mongo Hunter]

The link you provided specifically notes that these may run afoul of state law.  I provided links to state law and tossed it out there that, in WA, these may be in a grey area.   YMMV.

There's a lot of legal jargon on the links. which part specifically do you think puts it in a grey area?

[jackelope]

Whos really wanting to pick one of these up?!

http://www.mossberg.com/category/series/590-shockwave/

I know there's a huge debate on the usefulness of a PGO shotgun. To me its a compromise, no different than a snub nose .357 or a AR Pistol. Sacrificing some comfort and ease to get concealability and maneuverability. The business end is still a 12 gauge, Clint Smith of Thunder ranch did a really good video on it showing how to use it effectively for those non believers out there.

Waiting to see these pop up on store shelves to I can buy one, would be a great truck gun!

My buddy's shop has had them on the shelf for a little bit now.

[Yondering]

There's a lot of legal jargon on the links. which part specifically do you think puts it in a grey area?

I'm curious what the "grey area" is too.

I do see how WA state law appears to define the Shockwave as a pistol:

(18) "Pistol" means any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, or is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.

But it does not fall under the definitions of Shotgun or Short Barreled Shotgun.

[Mongo Hunter]

There's a lot of legal jargon on the links. which part specifically do you think puts it in a grey area?

I'm curious what the "grey area" is too.

I do see how WA state law appears to define the Shockwave as a pistol:

(18) "Pistol" means any firearm with a barrel less than sixteen inches in length, or is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.

But it does not fall under the definitions of Shotgun or Short Barreled Shotgun.

I see what you mean but it doesn't quite hit that either because its designed to be use with 2 hands and even by ATF definitions pistol means one hand. which is why we cant have vertical fore grips on AR pistols because now its "designed" to be used with 2 hands. I know stupid laws and definitions. their words not mine lol.

[Fl0und3rz]

Both of you hit the right definitions. 

"Short barreled shotguns" are not allowed in WA.  Is it one?  Is it a pistol? 

Unfortunately, I do not get to decide, so I will avoid it altogether, personally.

[Mongo Hunter]

Again by Washington legal definitions its neither a short barreled shotgun OR a pistol.

[Fl0und3rz]

Again, I don't get to make that call.  Good luck to you.

[Yondering]

Again, I don't get to make that call.  Good luck to you.

You don't have to "make that call", just read the regs you posted.

(24) "Shotgun" means a weapon with one or more barrels, designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

The whole reason the Shockwave is legal is that they come from the factory with a pistol grip only, and are not designed to be fired from the shoulder. It does not meet the definition of a shotgun. There is no grey area in that, and our state law follows federal law in that detail.

A "short barreled shotgun" is made from a shotgun, so that doesn't qualify either.

[Yondering]

Again, I don't get to make that call.  Good luck to you.

You don't have to "make that call", just read the regs you posted.

(24) "Shotgun" means a weapon with one or more barrels, designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

The whole reason the Shockwave is legal is that they come from the factory with a pistol grip only, and are not designed to be fired from the shoulder. It does not meet the definition of a shotgun. There is no grey area in that, and our state law follows federal law in that detail.

A "short barreled shotgun" is made from a shotgun, so that doesn't qualify either.

By claiming it's a grey area, you're implying there is some alternate interpretation of the state regs than federal law; I don't see that here. You're welcome to not own one, but please don't spread around false rumors about it being possibly illegal.

[Fl0und3rz]

By claiming it's a grey area, you're implying there is some alternate interpretation of the state regs than federal law; I don't see that here. You're welcome to not own one, but please don't spread around false rumors about it being possibly illegal.

I did not claim it was a grey area.  I questioned whether it was.  I don't disagree with your interpretation of shotgun, short-barreled shotgun, or another's interpretation as it being possibly/likely not a pistol.


In fact, it does not seem to fit well within any category of firearms in the RCW, which we can all agree, WA is very interested in regulating.

And regardless of the federal law and applicable federal case law, that has no mandatory interpretation effect on how a particular court would rule on a state law violation.


So where does that leave LE or courts in the determination of what to do with these? 

Are you free to carry this concealed with a CPL?  Can you have this loaded in a vehicle? 

These unanswered questions, my friend, are the essence of a grey area. 

So you can regard such warnings as false rumors, and I'll wish you good luck with that if you happen to get caught up in a battle of interpretation in a court over a murky hodgepodge of statutory law, just because Mossberg wanted you to buy something cool without considering the legal implications, even though they took a minimum effort to warn you to do so. 

I'll pass.