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Author Topic: transfering muzzleloaders  (Read 2444 times)

Offline dustysags

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transfering muzzleloaders
« on: November 12, 2020, 07:36:43 AM »
I was planning on picking up a muzzleloader from another member this week and was wondering if black powder is considered a firearm or what we need to do to transfer it legally. thanks planning on meeting at cabelas so maybe they can do it there if anything needs to be done.

Offline JBar

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2020, 07:49:52 AM »
No transfer required it's not considered a firearm.
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Offline HntnFsh

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2020, 06:23:56 PM »
No transfer required it's not considered a firearm.

Correct!

Offline carpsniperg2

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2020, 06:30:44 PM »
Depends on WHAT muzzleloader you are buying. SOME are considered firearms and require a ffl and 4473 transfer.

Such as the remington 700.
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Online Dan-o

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2020, 07:07:56 PM »
Depends on WHAT muzzleloader you are buying. SOME are considered firearms and require a ffl and 4473 transfer.

Such as the remington 700.

I never knew this, but I believe you.   
Now do you know which ones require an ffl xfer?
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Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2020, 07:14:02 PM »
Depends on WHAT muzzleloader you are buying. SOME are considered firearms and require a ffl and 4473 transfer.

Such as the remington 700.

I never knew this, but I believe you.   
Now do you know which ones require an ffl xfer?
I think a few of the break action types also require ffl.

Offline WapitiTalk1

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2020, 07:27:51 PM »
Ya, I dunno. Had a break action Traditions come to my door?
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Offline carpsniperg2

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2020, 07:47:53 PM »
The 700 Comes with a big niffy extra label that reminds dealers that they need to do 4473. It all has to do with the receiver of the said muzzleloader. Alot of the custom long range muzzleloaders and the 700 action can be made into a centerfire rifle. So even though it is setup as a muzzleloader the fact that it could be converted is what makes them require the paperwork.
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Online Dan-o

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2020, 08:11:26 PM »
Thanks.
That makes sense.
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Offline TooTallMike

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2020, 10:06:03 PM »
Free men don't ask for permission

Offline Goshawk

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2020, 10:02:50 PM »
No transfer required it's not considered a firearm.

Well, sort of...
If the person you're transferring the weapon to has any provision that does not allow them to have possession of a firearm, then you're both in trouble should you get caught.  Even a muzzle loader is a firearm when applied to them. A partial list of ownership limiting issues:
State law forbids many individuals from possessing firearms including:

    Those previously convicted or found not guilty by reason of insanity of any felony.

    Those previously convicted any of the following offenses if it was committed upon a family or household member (domestic violence).

    Assault in the 4th Degree

    Coercion, Stalking or Reckless Endangerment

    Criminal Trespass in the 1st Degree

    Violation of a No Contact Order or Restraining Order.

    Currently under a domestic restraining order

    Having been previously involuntarily committed for mental health treatment.

    Pending trial, appeal or sentencing for any serious offense as defined by RCW 9.41.045

Federal law also prohibits firearm possession by any individual who:

    Is under indictment in any court for a crime punishable by imprisonment of a term exceeding one year. (Arrested but not yet convicted).

    Anyone convicted of a crime punishable by a prison term of at least one year.
    A fugitive from justice.

    An unlawful use of or addicted to any controlled substance including marijuana, medicinal or legalized by your state.

    Anyone adjudicated as mentally defective or has been committed to any mental institution.

    An illegal alien.

    Anyone discharged from the military under dishonorable conditions.

    Anyone who has renounced their United States Citizenship.

    Anyone subject to a court order restraining the person form harassing, stalking or threatening an intimate partner, or child of the intimate partner.

    Anyone convicted of a misdemeanor domestic violence offense.
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Offline callturner

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2020, 05:01:11 AM »
Like they said, Black powder guns DO NOT get transferred! I have had many mailed to my door step. The only paper work involved was transfer of cash.

Offline Jingles

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2020, 05:17:44 AM »
My radical way of thinking the 2 parties  meet tranfer cash from buyer to seller, transfer firearm from seller to buyer deal done. Be it ML or AR
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Offline Bob33

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2020, 08:40:42 AM »
Washington considered them firearms. The Feds don't.
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Offline kselkhunter

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2020, 10:02:45 AM »
The Remington 700 UML and the Traditions NitroFire both require 4473 form, and thus an FFL regardless of what states they're sold in.

Most of the online retailers like muzzle-loaders.com will still ship the other muzzleloader brands and models to your door still in WA state.   

The recent law that expanded the legal definition of "firearm" in WA state law to be wider than the federal definition is the confusing topic.  Especially since in that same document they define a "rifle" as using a fixed metallic cartridge (ie not a muzzleloader).   And the definition of an antique firearm (exempted) is basically a muzzleloader, except the geniuses specified it had to be built prior to 1898......  And WA state has different purchase requirements on pistols vs. semiauto assault rifles vs. rifles, further confusing the topic.   The new state law considers a muzzleloader rifle a "firearm" based on the widened definition of "firearm", but a muzzleloader rifle does not meet the legal definition of a "rifle" under the same law.

ATF produces a concise read of WA state's (and counties) specific gun laws:  https://www.atf.gov/file/117401/download 

By the wording of the new state law, a muzzleloader is a "firearm" and thus subject to the background check rules on gun transfers.  Except, again you can still get muzzleloaders delivered to your front door without an FFL as those companies don't view WA state's poorly written law as impacting muzzleloaders.....so person-to-person muzzleloader rifle transfers is a bit of a gray area in the poorly written law.....

Offline Bob33

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2020, 10:12:14 AM »
Washington's definition of "firearm":

https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.010

"Firearm" means a weapon or device from which a projectile or projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder. "Firearm" does not include a flare gun or other pyrotechnic visual distress signaling device, or a powder-actuated tool or other device designed
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Offline Goshawk

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2020, 02:21:53 PM »
And if your muzzle loader is painted "Evil Black" it's an assault weapon in Seattle.  :o
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Offline callturner

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2020, 03:03:23 PM »
Jiminy Christmas guys, I walked into a gun store the other day and bought a muzzle loader and walked out like it was a pair of shoes. No paper work involved!!! :chuckle:

Offline JakeLand

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2020, 06:18:34 PM »
Jiminy Christmas guys, I walked into a gun store the other day and bought a muzzle loader and walked out like it was a pair of shoes. No paper work involved!!! :chuckle:
:tup:

Offline redi

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Re: transfering muzzleloaders
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2020, 06:35:17 PM »
If the receiver has a serial number then you must transfer it at an ffl.

 


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