Arrow weight

[Jingles]

Ok as most have figured from previous questions I'm getting back into archery hunting after 35+ years when aluminum arrows hit the market. My newest question is I have been practicing and getting back in shape with Easton 6.5mm Hunter Classics which weigh in at supposedly8.4 gr per inch 400 spine cut to 29 inches contemplating going to Easton 5mm Pro's which weigh in at 9.0 gr /Inch same length.  I realize will probably have to reset my pins  due to different weight and diameter and get different flight trajectory, HOWEVER my question is which of those 2 arrows would give me better penetration with all other conditions being the same.
Just trying to decide if the added expense of the Axis is worth the hassle?
Thanks in advance for you responses

[KFhunter]

The easton 5mm would penetrate better, less arrow diameter = less drag and slighlty heavier would carry more kenetic energy.

But I'm not convinced at this point you'd ever notice. 

As you're just getting back in from many years off, I'd focus on quantity of shooting and spending less $ on arrows means more shooting.

Worry about slight improvement gains after you regain muscle and form.

A slightly off shot with a heavy arrow is less optimal than a great shot with a slightly lighter arrow and thicker shaft.

[huntnfmly]

You’re only adding 17.4 grains you will not notice a big difference in poi if any except at long distance
Not worth the extra coin in my book stick with what you have
I forgot to ask how much weight are you pulling?

[Jingles]

Thanks for the reply's
They are kinda what I figured as far as diameter and drag was concerned and yes it has been frustrating at times getting back in shape and with shooting 3 times a day 25 arrows per time (5 flights of 5)  has been an awakening experience, however feel progressing  satisfactorily as now consistently putting 5 of 5 in a 4 1/2 inch paper plate out to 40 yards which I feel is a reasonable distance and would be within the vital area of anything but small game that I plan to hunt. Have never been one to sling even bullets at long range as feel it is better to get closer than call in an artillery barrage. Yes used to shoot out to 80 yards when competing but that was target archery not hunting. Sounds reasonable that any gains from the smaller arrows would not justify the additional expense at less than 50 yards. Currently pulling 57 pounds
Again thank you for your words of wisdom

[HAGEMANIAC]

I honestly don't think there would be much difference in penetration.  It is a smaller diameter, but at the same time it is heavier in GPI which will mean less FOC.  I don't see much added benefit in the money it would cost IMO.

[KFhunter]

If you really want those extra grains you could always use a 125 gr head, so long as its within your spine range

[MIKEXRAY]

I was never happy with my arrow penetration and drew a bull permit last year. My original setup was Beaman ICS hunter in 400 with a 100 gr broadhead.  I went to a 340 ( I was right on the border of either weight) Eaton Axis arrow and 125 gr broadhead.  My arrow weighed an additional 53 gr. I had a hard quartering away shot on a bull at 30 yards and had a complete pass through. Obviously there are a lot of factors involved but I was very happy with my whole new arrow setup. On a side note either arrow shoots perfect paper holes still and my point of impact out to 40 yards is very close to identical.  I did have to move my 50 & 60 yard pin slightly. My new arrow setup does penetrate the target deeper but only slightly . I have a lot more confidence in my current setup , my experience.  Good luck.

[SGTDuffman]

People get too hung up on weight. Generally speaking 15gr isn’t going to do anything. I think people tend to get too hung up on light arrows though. They’re treating bows and arrows like firearms, they aren’t. KE is for firearms. You should be worried about momentum with arrows, to a point. It can’t be so heavy it doesn’t fly. Guns kill by transferring KE into the target, arrows kill by cutting. The deeper and more stuff they can cut, the better. You want it to keep going if  it encounters things. With ideal shot placement you’d kill animals with any weight arrow and with no point at all, if it was legal. I tend to plan around less than ideal conditions. My arrow weights are probably what most on here would consider absurd. If you look at traditional equipment all throughout history, the arrows are easily in excess of 10gr per pound. I’ll say that I’ve never had any concerns or problems with penetration either. I spend more time looking for arrows that blew through animals, than the animals they blew through. You have to be good about your range finding, but that’s true whichever weight you use. Shot placement is most important, momentum is next for me.

[blackveltbowhunter]

When you refer to the Easton 5mm pro, do you mean the match grade option? If so part of the increase in cost is the additional straightness tolerance jumping from .003 to .001. If that is the case, then the 5mm is the better arrow. As for penetration concerns, both will work well, slight edge going to the 5mm all else being equal. But there is a lot more going into the equation than just simple arrow weight or diameter. And rarely is everything equal.

   I actually see the opposite trend occurring in the industry than Duffman. The trend is toward heavier arrows with high FOC. At the same time the trend is toward sliding sights and rangefinders. This should be a good thing. The downside? The trend is not toward passing up shots should that bull/buck move after that range has been taken or sight set. Everyone wants to still be able to make that shot after the bull moves 5-10 yards. All of a sudden arrow speed becomes a factor in MAKING a good shot. After lots of practice and trial and error with different setups I like my setups to come in at speeds around 280. Too far below 270 and I begin to have yardage errors past 40 yards that concern me. Faster setups become more difficult to tune, and arrows are light for my preference, for me that means arrows weight between 470 and 500ish. The last couple years they were right around 480.

   The numbers may not be that big, but in real world shooting scenarios FOR ME it is very noticeable.


 

[SGTDuffman]

I guess I’ve never been concerned at all w speed. Any speed out of a 70# compound is going to be a lot more than the speed out of my 50# longbow. I am a little north of 10gr/lb on the compound and closer to 12gr/lb out of the longbow. Still boils down to shot placement I suppose. I don’t try stuff I know I can’t make. Heavier arrows are more efficient too. They turn a lot of that extra energy that usually turns into vibration and noise into a couple extra FPS. Not that they’re faster than light stuff but they are more efficient. If I turn weight down, I’d lose fewer FPS by doing it w heavy vs light.

[OltHunter]

Before you get too far along, how did you come to a 400 spine?

I'm not sure what weight tips or hardware you are running, but at 29 inches cut, even at 57 pounds, 400 seems on the light side to me.

Having an underspined arrow will cause a lot of problems for you.

After that, I try to sling the heaviest arrow as fast as possible with the smallest diameter I can get away with. But it's more so personal preference. No need to specifically buy new arrows.

[KFhunter]

When you refer to the Easton 5mm pro, do you mean the match grade option? If so part of the increase in cost is the additional straightness tolerance jumping from .003 to .001. If that is the case, then the 5mm is the better arrow. As for penetration concerns, both will work well, slight edge going to the 5mm all else being equal. But there is a lot more going into the equation than just simple arrow weight or diameter. And rarely is everything equal.

   I actually see the opposite trend occurring in the industry than Duffman. The trend is toward heavier arrows with high FOC. At the same time the trend is toward sliding sights and rangefinders. This should be a good thing. The downside? The trend is not toward passing up shots should that bull/buck move after that range has been taken or sight set. Everyone wants to still be able to make that shot after the bull moves 5-10 yards. All of a sudden arrow speed becomes a factor in MAKING a good shot. After lots of practice and trial and error with different setups I like my setups to come in at speeds around 280. Too far below 270 and I begin to have yardage errors past 40 yards that concern me. Faster setups become more difficult to tune, and arrows are light for my preference, for me that means arrows weight between 470 and 500ish. The last couple years they were right around 480.

   The numbers may not be that big, but in real world shooting scenarios FOR ME it is very noticeable.

Thus the new new (old) trend of 90lb limbs and heavy arrows and high FOC

[OltHunter]

When you refer to the Easton 5mm pro, do you mean the match grade option? If so part of the increase in cost is the additional straightness tolerance jumping from .003 to .001.

You are also getting a more consistent spine with the step up in match grade too. 

Didn't want to sidetrack this topic - but a quick tip on the .003+ tolerance shafts: buy bareshafts, get an arrow spinner, arrow saw, and cut off the wobble from one end or both and you can easily make a .003 a .001.  Most of that difference will be towards the ends of the shafts and not the middle.

If you have a 32" shaft and want to cut it down to 28", look at the spin and make marks where the wobble seems to end on one or both ends.  If that doesn't equal 4", cut the shaft to your mark and respin.  Then mark your next wobble point, doesn't matter what end.  If you still aren't to your 28" length, cut and respin and repeat until you are at your length.

I even do this with .001, but i only get 1" to work with, so i just see which end has the ever most wobble to them.  Generally don't have to do both ends, but sometimes.

Only problem is for those OCD shooters who all have logos at different spots in their quiver!

[Jingles]

Ok gonna try to answer several questions that have been presented about my set up and why I choose what I did.
The Easton 5mm Axis Pro is the way they are listed in the Lancaster Archery Supply catalog, the same as for the 6.5 mm Match Grade. Seems Lancaster is the only Archery Supply I can get a hard copy catalog
I came up with the 400 spine on the recommendation of the "pro's" in the Archery departments of Sportsman Warehouse in East Wenatchee and at N40 in Omak also used the recommended arrow selector program at the Easton website.
My current setup is with 100 gr field points but switching to 125 gr once my order arrives as that is the weight of the Wasp fixed 4 blade broadheads I have remaining from 35+ years ago and going with what I have verses the added expense of $39.99 for 2 mechanical broadheads.

[OltHunter]

Add 3 to 5 pounds to your draw weight to the spine charts for 125 grain.

Depding on your IBO speed of your bow add or subtract 5 too.

I'd suggest you stay at 100 grain tips at 400 spine.

Looking at the Easton calc at 29" cut at 57 pound range puts you in the 340 spine.

Is 29" your overall arrow length? What's your nock point to end of carbon length?