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Author Topic: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States  (Read 3238 times)

Offline grundy53

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2021, 11:48:17 PM »
Why do people have such a *censored* for reintroducing species which have been extirpated from places? How would this population survive without a continuously connected genetic group on the landscape? How would they fare competing with native predators such as wolves, cougars, and bears? Do they have the genetic memory to target wild prey and not focus on livestock?

Jaguars thrive in Central and South America, reintroducing them in the continental US would do a disservice both to the jaguars and to the continental US.

I feel like you don't fully understand what kind of environment jaguars live in. And maybe you didn't read the whole article. They clearly would not be reintroducing them into areas that have wolves as that is not the right environment for them. Maybe they will cross paths with red wolves, and Arizona wolves, maybe not. What the article doesnt mention is that there is already a population of jaguars in the U.S. around the states bordering the gulf. People see them every so often. They have always been there. They would probably have ZERO problems establishing in area's like South Texas and Louisiana, Mississippi etc. All this whiny ranting over liberals wanting predators and blah blah blah about competing with other predators. Read a little more about it. They would most likely live where literally NO wolves live. Except for Arizona where jaguars are already found living in the same areas as wolves. There are very few cougars left in the South from the historical extermination attempts and bears are few in the South as well. If you consider yourself a true sportsman then you shouldn't mind helping out a species of animal that is endangered and giving up some areas for their benefit. I still agree with hound hunting cougars and bears. I agree with hunting wolves. I don't agree with exterminating an entire species from an area. Not helping them is a disservice to conservation which is what we as hunters should stand for. If your just into killing stuff with a gun go to a ranch somewhere and pay to shoot an ear tagged animal. I for one enjoy wildlife and the experience of seeing them in the wild acting naturally. Don't be greedy...

I am 100% against it, and here is why:

Specifically, you don't understand the lying dirtbags behind reintroduction.

Remember wolves........ 15o wolves and 15 breeding pairs.

Oh wait....   we meant 300 wolves and 30 breeding pairs.

Oh wait.....   We meant more than that, and will continually sue you for years while delaying delisting.



If wolf introduction taught me anything,  it's that you can count on the reintro folks to lie like nobody's business.



I am not anti-wolf, but I am 100% against these dirtbags.
Exactly

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Online zwickeyman

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2021, 05:06:34 AM »
Why do people have such a *censored* for reintroducing species which have been extirpated from places? How would this population survive without a continuously connected genetic group on the landscape? How would they fare competing with native predators such as wolves, cougars, and bears? Do they have the genetic memory to target wild prey and not focus on livestock?

Jaguars thrive in Central and South America, reintroducing them in the continental US would do a disservice both to the jaguars and to the continental US.

I feel like you don't fully understand what kind of environment jaguars live in. And maybe you didn't read the whole article. They clearly would not be reintroducing them into areas that have wolves as that is not the right environment for them. Maybe they will cross paths with red wolves, and Arizona wolves, maybe not. What the article doesnt mention is that there is already a population of jaguars in the U.S. around the states bordering the gulf. People see them every so often. They have always been there. They would probably have ZERO problems establishing in area's like South Texas and Louisiana, Mississippi etc. All this whiny ranting over liberals wanting predators and blah blah blah about competing with other predators. Read a little more about it. They would most likely live where literally NO wolves live. Except for Arizona where jaguars are already found living in the same areas as wolves. There are very few cougars left in the South from the historical extermination attempts and bears are few in the South as well. If you consider yourself a true sportsman then you shouldn't mind helping out a species of animal that is endangered and giving up some areas for their benefit. I still agree with hound hunting cougars and bears. I agree with hunting wolves. I don't agree with exterminating an entire species from an area. Not helping them is a disservice to conservation which is what we as hunters should stand for. If your just into killing stuff with a gun go to a ranch somewhere and pay to shoot an ear tagged animal. I for one enjoy wildlife and the experience of seeing them in the wild acting naturally. Don't be greedy...

I am 100% against it, and here is why:

Specifically, you don't understand the lying dirtbags behind reintroduction.

Remember wolves........ 15o wolves and 15 breeding pairs.

Oh wait....   we meant 300 wolves and 30 breeding pairs.

Oh wait.....   We meant more than that, and will continually sue you for years while delaying delisting.



If wolf introduction taught me anything,  it's that you can count on the reintro folks to lie like nobody's business.



I am not anti-wolf, but I am 100% against these dirtbags.

 :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

Offline nwwanderer

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2021, 05:44:02 AM »
And they managed them so will, research machoB

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2021, 07:01:14 AM »
NO
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Offline Mudman

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2021, 07:35:02 AM »
Let em do it....    They wont survive well in most of USA.  Jags are not a Puma so to speak.   IMOP of course.
MAGA!  Again..

Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2021, 08:11:27 AM »
A lot of species were INTENTIONALLY extirpated from the landscape by man and those instances measures should be taken to return them to the landscape ie wolves and griz (as much as im not a fan of them). In instances where the changed landscape has forced their demise whether cause by man or not i see no reason to attempt to force it. Take that money and put it into other species or habitat restoration. Im not versed in jaguar knowledge to be able to make an educated choice one way or the other.
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Offline LDennis24

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2021, 08:31:58 AM »
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/lets-rebuild-the-u-s-jaguar-population-mdash-yes-jaguars/

I say do it! I recall my great grandmother telling a story of when she was a little girl and her and her friends were followed home by a huge black puma near Ocala Florida. Obviously a Jaguar, but she said that they made it back ok and a few days later a farm hand was in the field and saw it burst out of the trees after a deer and run back into the thick brush after it saw him in the field. I think she said they ended up hunting it down for safety of the children.

I hate to point this out but it was clearly a mountain lion not a Jaguar. There have been no jaguars in florid for a very very long time. The black “panther” of Florida is just a melanistic mountain lion. Other than that I see no problem with jaguars in the places mentioned. Texas probably has about every other species on the planet running around down there so what’s one more? :dunno:

Actually it was clearly a Jaguar, the only cat known as a panther, that had traveled outside it's territory as she recalled also how it had the rosette pattern on its fur when they displayed it to everyone on the farm. She said another one was killed by some workers in Zephyrhills but it was regular colored. This was in the 30's and early 40's. Three S's applied, same with alligator and turtle meat. It was fair game to anyone. She said she saw snapping turtles three feet across all the time brought home by guys in the swamp. She is still alive and turning 100 this year.

Hey Ducks, when I said there were already populations in Arizona and that area I recalled reading an article that said they had tracked several that wander from Mexico into the area. I didn't realize that none of them stayed in that area. Like I stated. I did some more reading into it. I just don't think it makes sense to argue that all conservationists are bad conservationists etc. That's that mentally I was talking about, like all cops are bad cops. That's how that sounds. People who wanna help animals repopulate are not crooks and liars. Don't put everyone in the same category. Cops aren't all Derek Chauvins are they! This was simply an idea, that I thought, made sense to help them out. They were here once before, and it wouldn't hurt for them to be re-established in those areas. Like was mentioned, Texas has every other animal running around, why not have another native one?

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2021, 08:37:34 AM »
The problem with reintroductions is they always want to use it as a reason to close access and activities currently allowed, it's a tool that is widely used for this purpose, this is the primary reason I am opposed to most reintroductions!  :twocents:
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Offline LDennis24

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2021, 08:42:23 AM »
A lot of species were INTENTIONALLY extirpated from the landscape by man and those instances measures should be taken to return them to the landscape ie wolves and griz (as much as im not a fan of them). In instances where the changed landscape has forced their demise whether cause by man or not i see no reason to attempt to force it. Take that money and put it into other species or habitat restoration. Im not versed in jaguar knowledge to be able to make an educated choice one way or the other.

 :yeah:. I feel that the areas they would be in would be few and far between but they, like other species we help out, deserve to be given a second chance. I don't believe they would be so successful that it would be regrettable ten years from now like the wolves are! Lol I HATE wolves FYI... They belong in National parks and such but not all over the map. I feel the same way about the jaguar. They would do just fine in large open areas in Arizona and Texas and New Mexico. Maybe even the Boykin Springs and Sabine National Forest area of East Texas and Louisiana.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2021, 08:45:02 AM »
I think they should resurrect wolly mammoths since our ancestors speared em all into oblivion

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2021, 08:47:36 AM »
The problem with reintroductions is they always want to use it as a reason to close access and activities currently allowed, it's a tool that is widely used for this purpose, this is the primary reason I am opposed to most reintroductions!  :twocents:

That's correct, somehow everything gets turned into a political gain competition and is used against one group or another. It's a sad reality, especially these days, that if someone can benefit from being outspoken about it then they will use it to harm other user groups etc.

And KFHunter, I'm not even joking, I hope that happens! I hope that Russia tries it with all the mammoth DNA they are finding in the permafrost! They could live in the far East of Russia, no problem! Lol

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2021, 11:37:56 AM »
The problem with reintroductions is they always want to use it as a reason to close access and activities currently allowed, it's a tool that is widely used for this purpose, this is the primary reason I am opposed to most reintroductions!  :twocents:

That's correct, somehow everything gets turned into a political gain competition and is used against one group or another. It's a sad reality, especially these days, that if someone can benefit from being outspoken about it then they will use it to harm other user groups etc.

And KFHunter, I'm not even joking, I hope that happens! I hope that Russia tries it with all the mammoth DNA they are finding in the permafrost! They could live in the far East of Russia, no problem! Lol

Imagine, if you could go T-rex hunting on a Caribbean island and go wooly mammoth hunting in the remote reaches of the north, sign me up, sounds like fun!
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Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2021, 12:01:10 PM »
Lots of strong opinions against reintroductions here... I didn't hear you guys bitching when the Colville's reintroduced Antelope, I don't hear anyone screaming about them reintroducing Lynx...

I bet you you all were fired up when turkeys and elk were added to NE Washington in the 1990's.   :chuckle:

Quit painting with a broad brush.  Most of you all support reintroductions of most sorts.  Its the idea of jaguars that gets your hackles up.  If they were augmenting desert bighorns you would all be on board. 

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2021, 12:24:23 PM »
WAcoyote, I think a big difference is whether it's big predators or non-predators, and what the impacts will be. I haven't seen any large land grabs for turkeys, antelope, or sheep, perhaps if the wolves, grizzlies, and jaguar introductions were handled differently you wouldn't see the opposition! Just sayin! Give that a little thought?
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Reintroduce Jaguars to the United States
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2021, 12:27:40 PM »
WAcoyote, I think a big difference is whether it's big predators or non-predators, and what the impacts will be. I haven't seen any large land grabs for turkeys, antelope, or sheep, perhaps if the wolves, grizzlies, and jaguar introductions were handled differently you wouldn't see the opposition! Just sayin! Give that a little thought?
:yeah: Nailed it Dale. 
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