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Author Topic: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM  (Read 8152 times)

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2021, 08:45:49 AM »
I have limited experience in the blues, but do not doubt the retired biologists theory.

 The selkirks support a dense population of cougars and they were a MAJOR contributing factor to the recent expiration of caribou.  Cougars are also very likely a limiting factor for population growth of the Sullivan lake bighorn sheep herd.  In fact, lion predation to be the primary cause of that herds decline, but data is limited to support that theory. 

Until we have more tools for cougar management we are going to watch declines in big game herds statewide.  I enjoy cougars and want them on the landscape.  I also want a healthy and sustainable  population of lions (wdfw stated mission for the species) but I need someone to let us know exactly what that means....how many do we want/need to have a healthy/sustainable population?


Offline Humptulips

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2021, 09:44:56 AM »
I honestly don't see a legal path to sue for us. The only possibility I see is if the tribes sued over predator management. Even that is a stretch I think
What it boils down to is the people at the top. Governor and who he appoints to the Commission. I mean look at who his last three appointments were. WDFW has some tools to do something about cougar but they will not use them. When the Commission tried to increase the cougar quota they got smacked down by the Governor.
The Legislature is not pro-hunting either with guys like Chapman and Van De Wege in positions of power.
It's a blue problem.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline Stein

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2021, 11:00:05 AM »
I honestly don't see a legal path to sue for us. The only possibility I see is if the tribes sued over predator management. Even that is a stretch I think
What it boils down to is the people at the top. Governor and who he appoints to the Commission. I mean look at who his last three appointments were. WDFW has some tools to do something about cougar but they will not use them. When the Commission tried to increase the cougar quota they got smacked down by the Governor.
The Legislature is not pro-hunting either with guys like Chapman and Van De Wege in positions of power.
It's a blue problem.

That's the conclusion I came to, better to spend money with states that are not part of the problem.  There is enough ant-hunting PAC money out there that you can't fight both the state and anti-hunters and win.  WDFW will fight to a certain extent, but it's extremely limited and seems to be where there are constituents that have sway like timber companies.  For the average Joe hunter, not so much if at all.

If I had sentimental hunting areas in WA, I would probably feel different, but I started hunting in my late 30's, so I don't have any emotional ties to WA.

I think you see proof of this at the national level, look where conservation groups spend their money and time.  Limited resources means they are accountable to find the areas they can make the greatest impact.

Offline johnbmyersii

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2021, 11:10:11 AM »
I honestly don't see a legal path to sue for us. The only possibility I see is if the tribes sued over predator management. Even that is a stretch I think
What it boils down to is the people at the top. Governor and who he appoints to the Commission. I mean look at who his last three appointments were. WDFW has some tools to do something about cougar but they will not use them. When the Commission tried to increase the cougar quota they got smacked down by the Governor.
The Legislature is not pro-hunting either with guys like Chapman and Van De Wege in positions of power.
It's a blue problem.

That's the conclusion I came to, better to spend money with states that are not part of the problem.  There is enough ant-hunting PAC money out there that you can't fight both the state and anti-hunters and win.  WDFW will fight to a certain extent, but it's extremely limited and seems to be where there are constituents that have sway like timber companies.  For the average Joe hunter, not so much if at all.

If I had sentimental hunting areas in WA, I would probably feel different, but I started hunting in my late 30's, so I don't have any emotional ties to WA.

I think you see proof of this at the national level, look where conservation groups spend their money and time.  Limited resources means they are accountable to find the areas they can make the greatest impact.

You bring up a great point, I do have very sentimental areas that my family has hunted for generations that I wish I could turn my back on and walk away from...In the meantime I'd be willing to do something to help our problem but not sure what I can do except predator hunt harder.

Offline Karl Blanchard

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2021, 11:16:24 AM »
I have zero sentimental attachment to any hunting spot I've ever hunted. I do however have a sentimental attachment to mule deer and the perpetuation of their existence.  I want to hunt my backyard without feeling like I'm doing actual damage to the species.
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Offline Stein

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2021, 11:45:00 AM »
Honestly, the best bet would be to find a well funded anti group WDFW and the gov listen to and convince them mule deer are a cute enough species to protect.

Offline Farmer72

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #51 on: June 25, 2021, 12:19:52 PM »
Honestly, the best bet would be to find a well funded anti group WDFW and the gov listen to and convince them mule deer are a cute enough species to protect.

Lets start one. I am sure we can do like every other group and convince a bunch of people what we want is pure to just use it for our own gains.

Offline bigdub257

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2021, 12:32:32 PM »
What is the status of the tribes ability to hunt predators? Any limits?  Can they shoot wolves?  Maybe if they were rewarded in some way it would be beneficial for all.  Serious question as I have no idea.

Offline idaho guy

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2021, 12:44:32 PM »
What is the status of the tribes ability to hunt predators? Any limits?  Can they shoot wolves?  Maybe if they were rewarded in some way it would be beneficial for all.  Serious question as I have no idea.


Its a good idea maybe hook them up with the foundation for wildlife management from Idaho they are already reimbursing people up to 1,000 for wolves in idaho trapped or killed. The nez perce of Idaho are already hunting the blues. I know some tribes can run hounds for sure but not sure exactly where they can.  feels like the courts rule very favorable towards the tribes and the eco -terrorist are scared to say anything for fear of appearing politically incorrect  :chuckle: I would try and recruit them!   

Offline dreamingbig

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2021, 09:54:41 PM »
Until Washington gets a different and conservative governor you will not see any change in WDFW, the governor will not allow the type of management needed, that has already been proven!  :twocents:
Yep.  Amen.


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Offline dreamingbig

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #55 on: July 02, 2021, 09:57:03 PM »
What is the status of the tribes ability to hunt predators? Any limits?  Can they shoot wolves?  Maybe if they were rewarded in some way it would be beneficial for all.  Serious question as I have no idea.
They don’t hunt hard enough to do that.  The incentive isn’t there.


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Offline nwhunter

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2021, 06:57:37 AM »
The predator problem is real and its an uphill battle against the people that really don't care or would rather hear a wolf howl or have nobody hunting at all and they have way more money and power than hunters.. Many of us are members of RMEF on here.. I would a lot rather see them getting in the fight over these kind of issues than sending me crap in the mail every month for "free gifts" and return address labels … They brag at their banquets about land they purchase for hunter access and other things but in the meantime the world class herds we had ten years ago are devastated by things they either wont take a stand on or they are focused on other issues... Same thing could be said for Mule deer foundation probly…. Millions of dollars raised over the last 10-20 years and the herds are at record lows throughout the states so what are they doing for us...?

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2021, 07:10:41 AM »
Great question Scott! I wonder if it would end up like a school board meeting if someone brought that up at a rmef meeting??
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Offline Dan-o

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2021, 10:31:25 AM »
The predator problem is real and its an uphill battle against the people that really don't care or would rather hear a wolf howl or have nobody hunting at all and they have way more money and power than hunters.. Many of us are members of RMEF on here.. I would a lot rather see them getting in the fight over these kind of issues than sending me crap in the mail every month for "free gifts" and return address labels … They brag at their banquets about land they purchase for hunter access and other things but in the meantime the world class herds we had ten years ago are devastated by things they either wont take a stand on or they are focused on other issues... Same thing could be said for Mule deer foundation probly…. Millions of dollars raised over the last 10-20 years and the herds are at record lows throughout the states so what are they doing for us...?

RMEF does a lot of good work securing critical habitat.

Maybe it's a fair criticism that they could do more, but they are in the fight and they are on the right side.

Personally, I'm OK with RMEF focusing on what they focus on, and not trying to take on every issue related to elk.....   I think their impact would get watered down.

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Offline LDennis24

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Re: DEFINING THE BLUE MOUNTAINS ELK MANAGEMENT PROBLEM
« Reply #59 on: July 04, 2021, 09:03:05 PM »
Can someone tell me where in Washington the RMEF has secured critical habitat for elk or done some serious improvements to a specific area in terms of something more than a rain guzzler? I don't know of anything.

 


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