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Author Topic: Black bear sidearm  (Read 5567 times)

Offline dilleytech

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Re: Black bear sidearm
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2023, 09:23:18 AM »
9mm is a tale of two guns, self defense hollow points behave like a completely different projectile compared with fmj.  The latter has proven almost useless for self defense and the former has worked well.

That said, I don't carry it for anything other than people.

Personally, I've never understood the alternating round idea, especially with FMJ.  I can't think of a situation where 9mm FMJ would be the best solution other than making holes in paper with factory ammo for the least cost possible.

Hollow point defensive rounds donít penetrate well enough to take frontal animal shots. Personally if Iím shooting a charging bear penetration it everything and fmjs would be much better then your typical hollow points. All though I wouldnít be loading cheap slow plinking fmjís. I have a buddy that used to bear hunt with hounds he shot a bear at point blank on the head with his 10mm hollow points and they just pancaked with zero penetration. His Buffalo bores left softball sized holes.

9mm FMJ doesn't stop people, I certainly wouldn't trust it on bears.  There are tons of stores in Vietnam where they couldn't use hollow points and they would spray a handful into a guy and he would pop up and keep shooting back.  Hollow point works like a different beast in people. 

For bears, hard cast would be my choice.  Alternating bullets guarantees 50% of the time you have the wrong tool in a situation where you are lucky to get one shot.

No 9mm round will stop anything if it doesnít hit vitals or spine. Same goes with any pistol round. You put a fmj through the brain and the thing stops. Put it through the heart or lungs and the thing dies after a little time. If your hollow points doesnít make it past the muscle or bone then itís far more worthless then a fmj. You can put 30 holes through or into something and it can still stack if all those shots are non instantly fatal shots.

Humans are small soft shallow targets so hollow points are a good choice for humans. 

Offline Torrent50

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Re: Black bear sidearm
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2023, 09:08:48 PM »
I carry a Glock 20 with a Delta Point Pro red dot in a Gunfighters Inc. chest holster whenever I'm in the woods.  If I happen to be somewhere where Grizzlies might be around I carry Underwood 200 hardcast.  Since I'm on the wet-side I usually carry Underwood 180 XTP.   Most of the time I'm more concerned with two legged problems than the four legged ones, though kitties make me a bit nervous.

I highly recommend the red dot sight for more rapid target acquisition.  Just have to remember to change the batteries. 
"when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."  Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline dilleytech

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Re: Black bear sidearm
« Reply #62 on: February 09, 2023, 07:17:01 AM »
I carry a Glock 20 with a Delta Point Pro red dot in a Gunfighters Inc. chest holster whenever I'm in the woods.  If I happen to be somewhere where Grizzlies might be around I carry Underwood 200 hardcast.  Since I'm on the wet-side I usually carry Underwood 180 XTP.   Most of the time I'm more concerned with two legged problems than the four legged ones, though kitties make me a bit nervous.

I highly recommend the red dot sight for more rapid target acquisition.  Just have to remember to change the batteries.

I recently added a green dot Holosun scs, and a timnley alpha trigger to my G40 MOS 10mm. Huge improvement to shoot ability. The stock glock trigger was complete trash. I also went with 6Ē over the g20 5Ē barrel for that added 100fps bullet speed. Every 100 fps is a pretty big improvement in the world of pistols

Offline High Climber

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Re: Black bear sidearm
« Reply #63 on: February 09, 2023, 07:30:44 AM »
I carry a Glock 20 with a Delta Point Pro red dot in a Gunfighters Inc. chest holster whenever I'm in the woods.  If I happen to be somewhere where Grizzlies might be around I carry Underwood 200 hardcast.  Since I'm on the wet-side I usually carry Underwood 180 XTP.   Most of the time I'm more concerned with two legged problems than the four legged ones, though kitties make me a bit nervous.

I highly recommend the red dot sight for more rapid target acquisition.  Just have to remember to change the batteries. 
So I have a similar setup, just with a M&P 10mm. I like shooting with the delta point but I think Iím gonna take it off for woods carry. I donít like what happens when water gets on the glass. The dot gets fragmented looking and becomes basically useless it seems like. Have you had a similar experience with yours?

Offline Torrent50

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Re: Black bear sidearm
« Reply #64 on: February 09, 2023, 08:30:33 AM »
I carry a Glock 20 with a Delta Point Pro red dot in a Gunfighters Inc. chest holster whenever I'm in the woods.  If I happen to be somewhere where Grizzlies might be around I carry Underwood 200 hardcast.  Since I'm on the wet-side I usually carry Underwood 180 XTP.   Most of the time I'm more concerned with two legged problems than the four legged ones, though kitties make me a bit nervous.

I highly recommend the red dot sight for more rapid target acquisition.  Just have to remember to change the batteries. 
So I have a similar setup, just with a M&P 10mm. I like shooting with the delta point but I think Iím gonna take it off for woods carry. I donít like what happens when water gets on the glass. The dot gets fragmented looking and becomes basically useless it seems like. Have you had a similar experience with yours?

I haven't noticed that.  In fact, I just went and poured water in it to see what you are talking about.  I do see it get broken up a little, but I could still pick up the dot easily enough.  It might have to do with how bright you run your dot.  I don't max mine out.  The majority of the people at my old agency run red dots on their duty weapons, which are carried vertically in the holster and we never had an issue that I can recall in any of our qualifications or practice.  I don't know that I would want to try a precision 40 yard shot with it like that, but up close and personal I think it will be fine.  I appreciate you mentioning it though.  I will make sure to keep an eye on it in wet weather now.

The only issue I have with my setup is that it can be a pine needle trap when going thru thick stuff.  The horizontal position in the chest rig helps a bit, but I do have to blow it out once in a while. 

For anyone interested in the red dot option, I sent my slide to Lone Wolf in Priest River and had them mill it and mount the Delta Point Pro.  The milling is only about $150 I think and they did a great job.
"when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."  Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline GWP

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Re: Black bear sidearm
« Reply #65 on: February 09, 2023, 10:00:38 AM »
I'll chime in on this one.  I currently carry a glock 20 10mm with 220 grain buffalo bore, I used to carry a .40 Springfield with 165 grain.   Summer of 2019 out hiking with the pack goats I had a l good sized boar stalk us, then charge.  1 warning shot, then 6 successive rounds to stop the bear (which finally rolled at 8 yards).  I would guess I hit it 3-4x of the 6 shots I fired inside of 15 yards, it is harder than most people realize to deliver well placed shots from a sidearm at a charging bear.  The .40 stopped an attack and did eventually knocked the bear down, but the bear did get up and limp away after rolling down the very steep hillside we were on.  I promptly switched to a 10 mm after the incident.  Personally I found the semi auto to be ideal for firing successive rounds in a short time, getting back on target quickly with each shot.  A large revolver would have been emptied too quickly and been longer to re acquire the target with a lot more recoil, however the .40 certainly seemed to light. Best bet is to carry something you can shoot well and have some practice with.  I have always carried the sidearm mainly for the cats, but to date I have not had a cat mess with the goats in the backcountry.

I believe the fastest time for handgun shooting accurately is held by a revolver, but events where reloads and capacity are key is held by semi auto's.
Practice, practice practice so you hit where you aim while under duress.

Offline C-Money

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Re: Black bear sidearm
« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2023, 07:12:00 AM »
I really like Paul's break down of the 10mm & .45acp. This is the video that shows the FMJ ammo is not a bad choice...It is 5yo now, but still valid to me.

I felt like a one legged cat trying to bury a terd on a frozen pond!

Offline Dan-o

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Re: Black bear sidearm
« Reply #67 on: February 13, 2023, 09:04:55 AM »
I really like Paul's break down of the 10mm & .45acp. This is the video that shows the FMJ ammo is not a bad choice...It is 5yo now, but still valid to me.


I really like his videos.
I find him to be informative and no nonsense.
To me, he comes across as wanting to share a wealth of knowledge, not a big ego.
Member:   Yakstrakgutp (or whatever we are)
I love the BFRO!!!
I wonder how many people will touch their nose to their screen trying to read this...

Offline cooltimber

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Re: Black bear sidearm
« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2023, 10:45:39 AM »
great video.I do carry .45 with 230 gr fmj. yup! :chuckle:
rvn 69-70 11 b 2p 173rd
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Offline Farmer72

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Re: Black bear sidearm
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2023, 11:13:03 AM »
Would have been nice to see the 10mm 180 FMJ for a comparison through the meat target.

The 10mm was the first Glock I bought back in 1991. If I am not carrying my S&W 41 mag in the woods I am carrying a Glock 10mm. Hard to beat 18 rds. in the pistol (15 rnd. mag with +2 extension and one in the chamber).

Offline Machias

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Re: Black bear sidearm
« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2023, 12:15:57 PM »
Good video, thanks for sharing!
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When it's Grim, be the GRIM REAPER!

Offline kselkhunter

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Re: Black bear sidearm
« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2023, 12:57:31 PM »
Primary backup sidearm is S&W Model 627 with 180gr hard cast bullets in a chest holster.  A friend has a huge arsenal, and let me practice with all his handguns so I got to shoot every major cartridge in revolver and semi-auto.  357 Mag is what I shoot the most accurately and repeatably, and those hard casts will penetrate any animal skull provided I do my part to put the bullet there....which is why I focused on the gun that fit me best and that I was most accurate with.   


That being said, since I'll have a few trips in grizzly country I did recently order a 460 Rowland upgrade kit for my Kimber 45 acp to have a more powerful alternative should I choose to carry it instead. 

Offline Browndawg

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Re: Black bear sidearm
« Reply #72 on: February 15, 2023, 02:34:48 PM »
I run with a 41 mag single action. Cowboy Style

Offline C-Money

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Re: Black bear sidearm
« Reply #73 on: February 20, 2023, 04:43:11 PM »
I really like Paul's break down of the 10mm & .45acp. This is the video that shows the FMJ ammo is not a bad choice...It is 5yo now, but still valid to me.


I really like his videos.
I find him to be informative and no nonsense.
To me, he comes across as wanting to share a wealth of knowledge, not a big ego.
I totally agree, would love to spend some time on the range with Paul.

Machias, glad you enjoyed it! He is very entertaining.
I felt like a one legged cat trying to bury a terd on a frozen pond!

Offline Westside88

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Re: Black bear sidearm
« Reply #74 on: February 20, 2023, 06:13:16 PM »
Primary backup sidearm is S&W Model 627 with 180gr hard cast bullets in a chest holster.  A friend has a huge arsenal, and let me practice with all his handguns so I got to shoot every major cartridge in revolver and semi-auto.  357 Mag is what I shoot the most accurately and repeatably, and those hard casts will penetrate any animal skull provided I do my part to put the bullet there....which is why I focused on the gun that fit me best and that I was most accurate with.   


That being said, since I'll have a few trips in grizzly country I did recently order a 460 Rowland upgrade kit for my Kimber 45 acp to have a more powerful alternative should I choose to carry it instead.
Iíd like to hear more about this Rowland kit? Who makes them? That sounds like an ideal setup from what Iíve learned so far. And it sounds like you can still shoot 45 acp out of it?

 


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