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Author Topic: Better pay attention to this, they always tell you what their next move will be  (Read 5138 times)

Offline Skyvalhunter

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That was one golden eagle. Which was probably singled out to fit one groups agenda.
The only man who never makes a mistake, is the man who never does anything!!
The further one goes into the wilderness, the greater the attraction of its lonely freedom.

Offline Platensek-po

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Did you read the 8 yr study I posted?? That was literally the first ever tagged golden eagle in montana and it died of lead. Wasnít even being studied for lead. Just how it diedÖ. You guys can keep coming up with excuses but the science is clear. If you want to follow the science and be a good steward then the choice is clear and easy. If you want to put your head in the sand and poison eagles then the choice is also clear and easy. Your choice.
ďUnder no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.Ē

If you are not willing to die for freedom then take the word out of your vocabulary.

Offline Platensek-po

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ďUnder no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.Ē

If you are not willing to die for freedom then take the word out of your vocabulary.

Offline fishngamereaper

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If Eagles are dieing from lead ingested from gut plies why aren't coyotes, Ravens, etc...any studies on them.

I don't doubt Eagle's are showing levels of lead but it's more likely related to fish they eat than gut piles. The amount of lead present in our waters due to run off, old building methods etc is more of a problem than a frag in a random gut pile.

It's just easier and convenient to blame hunting.

Offline Tbar

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If Eagles are dieing from lead ingested from gut plies why aren't coyotes, Ravens, etc...any studies on them.

I don't doubt Eagle's are showing levels of lead but it's more likely related to fish they eat than gut piles. The amount of lead present in our waters due to run off, old building methods etc is more of a problem than a frag in a random gut pile.

It's just easier and convenient to blame hunting.
Have you looked at any of the necropsy investigations. It's not elevated levels in the blood from environment its nearly always literally a chunk of lead or lead shot.

Offline Platensek-po

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If Eagles are dieing from lead ingested from gut plies why aren't coyotes, Ravens, etc...any studies on them.

I don't doubt Eagle's are showing levels of lead but it's more likely related to fish they eat than gut piles. The amount of lead present in our waters due to run off, old building methods etc is more of a problem than a frag in a random gut pile.

It's just easier and convenient to blame hunting.

Then why do lead levels in eagles spike in fall and winter? When they are feeding on gut piles. Eagles and ravens have higher acid levels in their stomach and donít pass the lead as quickly as mammals. Again if itís related to fish then why golden eagles? Bald eagles in Minnesota? Does anyone even bother to look at the study??
ďUnder no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.Ē

If you are not willing to die for freedom then take the word out of your vocabulary.

Offline Platensek-po

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If Eagles are dieing from lead ingested from gut plies why aren't coyotes, Ravens, etc...any studies on them.

I don't doubt Eagle's are showing levels of lead but it's more likely related to fish they eat than gut piles. The amount of lead present in our waters due to run off, old building methods etc is more of a problem than a frag in a random gut pile.

It's just easier and convenient to blame hunting.

They also say that lead levels in grizzlies spike but itís not as big of an issue for them and they are also an 400-800lb animal vs a 12-15lb.
ďUnder no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.Ē

If you are not willing to die for freedom then take the word out of your vocabulary.

Offline fishngamereaper

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If Eagles are dieing from lead ingested from gut plies why aren't coyotes, Ravens, etc...any studies on them.

I don't doubt Eagle's are showing levels of lead but it's more likely related to fish they eat than gut piles. The amount of lead present in our waters due to run off, old building methods etc is more of a problem than a frag in a random gut pile.

It's just easier and convenient to blame hunting.
Have you looked at any of the necropsy investigations. It's not elevated levels in the blood from environment its nearly always literally a chunk of lead or lead shot.

The studies I've read literally said the data is from liver blood and feather samples. Half the birds where living at the time of testing.
Always a junk of lead? Provide the study your referring to..I'm curious.
Eating gut piles is an assumption is it not.  No proof....
Is it also a possibility that Eagle's are being shot at but surviving. Farmer's, poachers, kids with pellet guns...etc.
I just think it's narrow minded to cast hunter's and gut piles as the culprit whens lots of other factors should be considered...

Offline Tbar

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I get the resistance to change but the dangers to raptors and scavengers is real.  In addition we have either a seamless transition or a preferred (by many) transition to copper. I hear hunters repeatedly claim to be conservation minded but actions often make the argument difficult. 

Offline Platensek-po

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If Eagles are dieing from lead ingested from gut plies why aren't coyotes, Ravens, etc...any studies on them.

I don't doubt Eagle's are showing levels of lead but it's more likely related to fish they eat than gut piles. The amount of lead present in our waters due to run off, old building methods etc is more of a problem than a frag in a random gut pile.

It's just easier and convenient to blame hunting.
Have you looked at any of the necropsy investigations. It's not elevated levels in the blood from environment its nearly always literally a chunk of lead or lead shot.

The studies I've read literally said the data is from liver blood and feather samples. Half the birds where living at the time of testing.
Always a junk of lead? Provide the study your referring to..I'm curious.
Eating gut piles is an assumption is it not.  No proof....
Is it also a possibility that Eagle's are being shot at but surviving. Farmer's, poachers, kids with pellet guns...etc.
I just think it's narrow minded to cast hunter's and gut piles as the culprit whens lots of other factors should be considered...

No proof?? The studies literally show the birds are eating gut piles as evidenced by whatís in their guts. They find them with animals guts and lead from ammunition. Itís in the study I posted. Did you actually read it? The ones making assumptions are you guys, itís from drinking water, eating fish, being shot etc. all stuff of which their is literally no proof. Their is proof however that they are consuming lead from gut piles. Again you can shove your head in the sand and scream lalalalala all you want. All over having to spend .50c more on a non toxic bullet. If you could avoid poisoning eagles why not? Again itís your choice but please stop with the wild guesses when the proof is literally right there. This thread has literally every wild guess and assumption possible from people who refuse to read the study in front of them. Heck some people even said itís ok that we are poisoning them cause there  a lot. So either we are a group that cares about the environment and want be responsible stewards are we just donít care and want to kill as cheaply as possible with no regard for further consequences.
ďUnder no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.Ē

If you are not willing to die for freedom then take the word out of your vocabulary.

Offline fishngamereaper

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If Eagles are dieing from lead ingested from gut plies why aren't coyotes, Ravens, etc...any studies on them.

I don't doubt Eagle's are showing levels of lead but it's more likely related to fish they eat than gut piles. The amount of lead present in our waters due to run off, old building methods etc is more of a problem than a frag in a random gut pile.

It's just easier and convenient to blame hunting.

Then why do lead levels in eagles spike in fall and winter? When they are feeding on gut piles. Eagles and ravens have higher acid levels in their stomach and donít pass the lead as quickly as mammals. Again if itís related to fish then why golden eagles? Bald eagles in Minnesota? Does anyone even bother to look at the study??

Yes Ive read a few studies...
Besides fall and winter being spawning season it's also the wet season and being so seasonal runoff increases into river's streams and lakes. Increased run off increases toxin levels in the water.
See I can be scientific to.
Did a few Eagles maybe eat a guy pile with a junk of leftover frag..
Possibly.
Are there hundreds of other possibilities... Yes.

Offline Tbar

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Sometimes we fuel our own resistance. There is valid reasoning to want this change. Look at the arguments for and against from an empathetic view of the non hunting non environmentalists 80% of society. 

Offline fishngamereaper

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If Eagles are dieing from lead ingested from gut plies why aren't coyotes, Ravens, etc...any studies on them.

I don't doubt Eagle's are showing levels of lead but it's more likely related to fish they eat than gut piles. The amount of lead present in our waters due to run off, old building methods etc is more of a problem than a frag in a random gut pile.

It's just easier and convenient to blame hunting.
Have you looked at any of the necropsy investigations. It's not elevated levels in the blood from environment its nearly always literally a chunk of lead or lead shot.

The studies I've read literally said the data is from liver blood and feather samples. Half the birds where living at the time of testing.
Always a junk of lead? Provide the study your referring to..I'm curious.
Eating gut piles is an assumption is it not.  No proof....
Is it also a possibility that Eagle's are being shot at but surviving. Farmer's, poachers, kids with pellet guns...etc.
I just think it's narrow minded to cast hunter's and gut piles as the culprit whens lots of other factors should be considered...

No proof?? The studies literally show the birds are eating gut piles as evidenced by whatís in their guts. They find them with animals guts and lead from ammunition. Itís in the study I posted. Did you actually read it? The ones making assumptions are you guys, itís from drinking water, eating fish, being shot etc. all stuff of which their is literally no proof. Their is proof however that they are consuming lead from gut piles. Again you can shove your head in the sand and scream lalalalala all you want. All over having to spend .50c more on a non toxic bullet. If you could avoid poisoning eagles why not? Again itís your choice but please stop with the wild guesses when the proof is literally right there. This thread has literally every wild guess and assumption possible from people who refuse to read the study in front of them. Heck some people even said itís ok that we are poisoning them cause there  a lot. So either we are a group that cares about the environment and want be responsible stewards are we just donít care and want to kill as cheaply as possible with no regard for further consequences.

Take a deep breath man....don't attack me I'm not attacking you....
I've never said I love my lead bullets.
I'm just tired of hunters, hunting, guns etc being the primary focus of issues that have hundreds of other possible and probable causations that aren't being addressed...

Offline Platensek-po

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If Eagles are dieing from lead ingested from gut plies why aren't coyotes, Ravens, etc...any studies on them.

I don't doubt Eagle's are showing levels of lead but it's more likely related to fish they eat than gut piles. The amount of lead present in our waters due to run off, old building methods etc is more of a problem than a frag in a random gut pile.

It's just easier and convenient to blame hunting.
Have you looked at any of the necropsy investigations. It's not elevated levels in the blood from environment its nearly always literally a chunk of lead or lead shot.

The studies I've read literally said the data is from liver blood and feather samples. Half the birds where living at the time of testing.
Always a junk of lead? Provide the study your referring to..I'm curious.
Eating gut piles is an assumption is it not.  No proof....
Is it also a possibility that Eagle's are being shot at but surviving. Farmer's, poachers, kids with pellet guns...etc.
I just think it's narrow minded to cast hunter's and gut piles as the culprit whens lots of other factors should be considered...

No proof?? The studies literally show the birds are eating gut piles as evidenced by whatís in their guts. They find them with animals guts and lead from ammunition. Itís in the study I posted. Did you actually read it? The ones making assumptions are you guys, itís from drinking water, eating fish, being shot etc. all stuff of which their is literally no proof. Their is proof however that they are consuming lead from gut piles. Again you can shove your head in the sand and scream lalalalala all you want. All over having to spend .50c more on a non toxic bullet. If you could avoid poisoning eagles why not? Again itís your choice but please stop with the wild guesses when the proof is literally right there. This thread has literally every wild guess and assumption possible from people who refuse to read the study in front of them. Heck some people even said itís ok that we are poisoning them cause there  a lot. So either we are a group that cares about the environment and want be responsible stewards are we just donít care and want to kill as cheaply as possible with no regard for further consequences.

Take a deep breath man....don't attack me I'm not attacking you....
I've never said I love my lead bullets.
I'm just tired of hunters, hunting, guns etc being the primary focus of issues that have hundreds of other possible and probable causations that aren't being addressed...

Sure but itís super simple for hunters to remove themselves from the equation. So if we can then why not? We literally shout that hunting is conservation. You have other members on here saying that they literally donít care about killing a few eagles cause there are lots. How does that look for the antis? How does that look to the population on the fence? We can make a simple easy change and make sure we are in no way the problem. Then if it keeps happening then the focus will have to go elsewhere. I would rather see hunters make the change to non toxic ammo for hunting whenever possible because they want to be sure they are not poisoning birds. Even if itís not sure we are.
ďUnder no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.Ē

If you are not willing to die for freedom then take the word out of your vocabulary.

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Just believe the studies, even if Wielgus wrote them. Those are the only kinds WDFW seems to operate on.  :yike:

 


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