Free: Contests & Raffles.
Quote from: boneaddict on February 23, 2024, 11:35:26 AMI had a different document than the link you posted which I think was the 102. I'll see if I can find it, Kinda limited as I am at work. I found it, didn’t scroll far enough in that link I posted…I am in agreement with what everyone else is saying as well, plenty of bulls and cows. I think a big problem if you read that status and trends put out on a yearly basis is they didn’t do surveys in 2014, 2015, 2018, 2020, and 2021 due to mild winters. If we had that many mild winters in the past decade with another mild winter this year how can this herd be doing so poorly? We all know this to not be the case. Then when they doing their surveys they are coming up with low bull to cow ratios and now we are holding at the lower end of recommended bull to cow ratio.
I had a different document than the link you posted which I think was the 102. I'll see if I can find it, Kinda limited as I am at work.
Honestly, quit shooting cows...
Long story short...I crunched a bunch of WDFW numbers last year going way back with the Yakima herd. Bull/Cow ratios have bounced back rapidly from numbers much worse than 18:100.I agree with some on here that 18:100 might not even be accurate.The calf survival numbers are the problem when you really dig into it. My research led me to believe that predators are the problem. Not state or native hunters. They could definitely give us more bull permits.I'll look for that data I collected and share it on here.
Quote from: Slamadoo on February 23, 2024, 09:45:05 PMLong story short...I crunched a bunch of WDFW numbers last year going way back with the Yakima herd. Bull/Cow ratios have bounced back rapidly from numbers much worse than 18:100.I agree with some on here that 18:100 might not even be accurate.The calf survival numbers are the problem when you really dig into it. My research led me to believe that predators are the problem. Not state or native hunters. They could definitely give us more bull permits.I'll look for that data I collected and share it on here. I'd be very interested in that data and curious where you found ANY data at all on Predator based calf mortality as I've never been able to find any. Admittedly my google-fu is not the strongest
Quote from: Karl Blanchard on February 23, 2024, 12:59:44 PMQuote from: Tbar on February 23, 2024, 12:48:54 PMIt'san interesting question and I don't think it should be an elephant in the room regardless of the reasoning. We should be able to discuss wildlife related issues. I'm definitely on the fringe of this one but the first thing that jumps out is the ratio. 13:100 is not great, not cause for panic but it's a reason you may want to pull back a little. We would really have to take a deeper dive into age structure to get to root questions. Acknowledging that there is over 100 miles of elk fence in Yakima separating elk from their historic critical range is also key. This is not only an issue of marginal habitat but also the lack of escape refuge for predators. This does not benefit the human harvest. There is also specific seasons (right now) where elk are damned for existence on certain landscapes. According to your local farm bureau the population and intrusion is at near all time highs.So I'll offer an overvalued .Bull population is near minimum according to surveys (?)Archery success is consistent. Predators play a key role, likely the driver however I would question that it's forcing a trend if other metrics are consistent. Tribal harvest seems consistent, admittedly with little knowledge on this. Sustainable is a great question. Is state management sustainable? Is unlimited harvest of yearling bulls coupled with significant other harvest i.e. draw tags, landowner tags, master hunters sustainable? I'm not sure what the recipe for success is but I feel like few have been able to see the forest through the trees and accept that it's a shared resource. It's a critical time in this state and really beyond. We all must evolve with the changing dynamics. Fantastic post. I'd also add that I'm highly skeptical of the 13 to 100 cows. Yakima elk population continues to thrive. This year will likely be an all time historic high for our elk herds. Let us kill some Surplus cows and that bull to cow ratio will come into line nicely.lots of word salad but, I wanna know how Tbar comes up with the native harvest REAL numbers? Really? He’s a native and doesn’t even know what the native harvest is in the 346 unit. Even our spokesperson for the yakama tribe refuses to give us solid numbers… wonder why.
Quote from: Tbar on February 23, 2024, 12:48:54 PMIt'san interesting question and I don't think it should be an elephant in the room regardless of the reasoning. We should be able to discuss wildlife related issues. I'm definitely on the fringe of this one but the first thing that jumps out is the ratio. 13:100 is not great, not cause for panic but it's a reason you may want to pull back a little. We would really have to take a deeper dive into age structure to get to root questions. Acknowledging that there is over 100 miles of elk fence in Yakima separating elk from their historic critical range is also key. This is not only an issue of marginal habitat but also the lack of escape refuge for predators. This does not benefit the human harvest. There is also specific seasons (right now) where elk are damned for existence on certain landscapes. According to your local farm bureau the population and intrusion is at near all time highs.So I'll offer an overvalued .Bull population is near minimum according to surveys (?)Archery success is consistent. Predators play a key role, likely the driver however I would question that it's forcing a trend if other metrics are consistent. Tribal harvest seems consistent, admittedly with little knowledge on this. Sustainable is a great question. Is state management sustainable? Is unlimited harvest of yearling bulls coupled with significant other harvest i.e. draw tags, landowner tags, master hunters sustainable? I'm not sure what the recipe for success is but I feel like few have been able to see the forest through the trees and accept that it's a shared resource. It's a critical time in this state and really beyond. We all must evolve with the changing dynamics. Fantastic post. I'd also add that I'm highly skeptical of the 13 to 100 cows. Yakima elk population continues to thrive. This year will likely be an all time historic high for our elk herds. Let us kill some Surplus cows and that bull to cow ratio will come into line nicely.
It'san interesting question and I don't think it should be an elephant in the room regardless of the reasoning. We should be able to discuss wildlife related issues. I'm definitely on the fringe of this one but the first thing that jumps out is the ratio. 13:100 is not great, not cause for panic but it's a reason you may want to pull back a little. We would really have to take a deeper dive into age structure to get to root questions. Acknowledging that there is over 100 miles of elk fence in Yakima separating elk from their historic critical range is also key. This is not only an issue of marginal habitat but also the lack of escape refuge for predators. This does not benefit the human harvest. There is also specific seasons (right now) where elk are damned for existence on certain landscapes. According to your local farm bureau the population and intrusion is at near all time highs.So I'll offer an overvalued .Bull population is near minimum according to surveys (?)Archery success is consistent. Predators play a key role, likely the driver however I would question that it's forcing a trend if other metrics are consistent. Tribal harvest seems consistent, admittedly with little knowledge on this. Sustainable is a great question. Is state management sustainable? Is unlimited harvest of yearling bulls coupled with significant other harvest i.e. draw tags, landowner tags, master hunters sustainable? I'm not sure what the recipe for success is but I feel like few have been able to see the forest through the trees and accept that it's a shared resource. It's a critical time in this state and really beyond. We all must evolve with the changing dynamics.
Quote from: Karl Blanchard on February 24, 2024, 08:53:03 AMQuote from: Slamadoo on February 23, 2024, 09:45:05 PMLong story short...I crunched a bunch of WDFW numbers last year going way back with the Yakima herd. Bull/Cow ratios have bounced back rapidly from numbers much worse than 18:100.I agree with some on here that 18:100 might not even be accurate.The calf survival numbers are the problem when you really dig into it. My research led me to believe that predators are the problem. Not state or native hunters. They could definitely give us more bull permits.I'll look for that data I collected and share it on here. I'd be very interested in that data and curious where you found ANY data at all on Predator based calf mortality as I've never been able to find any. Admittedly my google-fu is not the strongest There was a study in the Blue Mountains a few years back.https://nwsportsmanmag.com/some-details-from-year-2-of-blues-elk-calf-mortality-study-out/#:~:text=In%20response%20to%20that%20dangerously,4%20to%20allow%20hunters%20to
Tbar is more versed on the issue that almost anyone else on this issue. He may/ may not have seen the Datta but his insights should always make you pay attention.
Quote from: Special T on February 24, 2024, 10:06:24 AMTbar is more versed on the issue that almost anyone else on this issue. He may/ may not have seen the Datta but his insights should always make you pay attention. This is where I'm at. No offense to anyone else on the forum, but he's probably more versed than almost anyone participating here.
