Hybrid talk from biggest buck thread

[boneaddict]

I’m going to go ahead and split this so that we aren’t stealing the OPs intention of their thread.

Probably a dumb question, but do whitetail and mule deer ever cross breed? I’m familiar with the mule deer/blacktail but don’t hear anything with whitetail/muledeer.

It’s amazing how great God was to offset the rut like he did of those two.  It happens but not nearly as often as most people think. 

[C-Money]

A friend killed a buck in the Kahlotus area that truly struck me as a muley/whitetail cross. It had obvious body features of both breeds. Over the years, sitting behind a spotting scope or a set of binos, looking over a lot of mule deer, I can honestly say, I do not remember looking at a deer that jumped out as looking like a cross breed. Only example I have is the one I mentioned that a friend tagged. Also, this is a great thread, lots of great WA bucks to look at!

[C-Money]

Oh, and while we are on the topic of whitetail/mule deer cross...I hear so often folks say that because a muley buck dose not have forks it must have whitetail blood. FALSE! This vomit comment usually comes from our fellow hunters from the Eastern states. When I hear someone say this its worse than fingernails down a chalk board...

[chukardogs]

Back in the late 80s, early 90s, I ran into a guy coming off of Mt. Annie with a buck in the back of his pickup that was clearly a Whitetail. The body, the tail, everything said Whitetail. The rack was 15 to 16 wide, a traditional 4 point with every 4 to 6 inch tall point, coming off the main beam plus 2 to 3 inch eye guards. The only difference was every point except the most forward tips were forked. Strangest looking rack! It's the only buck I've seen that said my daddy was a Muley.

[huntnnw]

My dad killed a 170’s whitetail that every tine is forked but the G4’s.. its 100% whitetail.  Gotta look at body, he also killed a doe a number of years ago when I was a kid in a group of 10–12 muleys . We get up to it and there was no mistaken this doe was crossed with a whitetail and muley. Oddest looking deer I have ever seen. Had markings of both species, had muley ears , a full whitetail tail. Didn’t bounce when it ran with herd when the rest did.

I use to see near Tum tum on several occasions when I lived near there of muley bucks chasing whitetail does in November. 2 years ago in lolo of Idaho I watched a muley doe and fawn be followed for over a mile by a small 4pt whitetail.

[zwickeyman]

My dad killed a 170’s whitetail that every tine is forked but the G4’s.. its 100% whitetail.  Gotta look at body, he also killed a doe a number of years ago when I was a kid in a group of 10–12 muleys . We get up to it and there was no mistaken this doe was crossed with a whitetail and muley. Oddest looking deer I have ever seen. Had markings of both species, had muley ears , a full whitetail tail. Didn’t bounce when it ran with herd when the rest did.

I use to see near Tum tum on several occasions when I lived near there of muley bucks chasing whitetail does in November. 2 years ago in lolo of Idaho I watched a muley doe and fawn be followed for over a mile by a small 4pt whitetail.

Huntwa

Just across the bridge over the Spokane River going toward Airway Heights if you take a right and go down river there are a bunch of cross down there. You are right, odd looking with traits of both species and some are down right ugly

[chukardogs]

Hey Bone, as far as the rut? If the Whitetails rut the week of Turkey day, when do you think the Mule deer rut? Before or after? We've consistently seen bucks starting to swell the last week of October? At least on the mountain I've been hunting for years in the eastern Okanogan, the Whitetail hang 500 to a thousand feet lower in elevation than the Muleys during the Modern firearm season. I've always heard the Mule deer rut is usually early (beginning of November) and late (beginning of December). Basically, whatever females don't get bred early, come back into heat 30 days later or so and the bucks are still cruising around looking for does. If that's actually the case, isn't it possible that the Muleys are out n about throughout the entire rut of both Whitetails and Muleys? Or do the bucks, take a break from the rut and rest for a few weeks?

[huntnnw]

All the hunting I have done with both species mule deer rut way earlier than whitetails. I have watched on may occasions muleys in full blown rut the week of Oct 20th and on. Muleys seem to peak in this region in early November and whitetails are usually around November 18-24. Muleys seem to have a much more longer drawn out rut and whitetails start, peak and it really drops off fast with them.

[boneaddict]

    First you have to take in account there is pre-rut behavior and then breeding.  Typically the majority of the mule deer rut is completed before whitetails even begin.   Does it completely end, no, but it’s a tight tidal wave in general terms last week of October,or Halloween through Veterans day.  As that  tapers off the whitetails start in earnest, starting mid November, roughly after the 12th, climbing rapidly in activity by the 19th, peaking hard and  just about the time theirs ends, the second mule deer rut hits, roughly around Thanksgiving. Sticking to the wave analogy this wave is smaller and less intense than the first.   Rinse and Repeat, then the Whitetail wave hits in December.   

[nwwanderer]

Have seen a few suspects and family has harvested a few.  Whitetail are the old line ones, mule deer the new kid on the block.  Would expect to see more with current population make-up, seeing more mule deer, still darn few, in whitetail areas.  Al ittle dna testing would settle the subject.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

DNA studies have shown that Mule deer are a hybrid cross between Blacktail bucks and Whitetail does.

https://www.britannica.com/animal/mule-deer

[chukardogs]

It's been interesting to watch the Mule deer for over 30 years on the mountain that I hunt. Every year when the Mule deer rut starts to heat up, for whatever reason, there seems to be one area around an opening on a specific ridgeline that draws in the deer. I guess it's possible that because I've seen so many deer in this area, I just gravitate to it and therefore see more deer there because it's where I spend my time. Do Mule deer congregate in a specific area for the rut or just for the pre rut activity? You hear about Mule deer bucks that roam ten to twenty miles out of their summer/fall range during the rut. Applying all of this to, if I'm ever lucky enough to draw the late 204 any buck tag, I question whether the area that I hunt during the regular modern firearm season would still be worth putting my time into or if I'd be better off finding high spots throughout a much larger area and just glassing larger tracks of land?

[chukardogs]

Wow! That hybridization had to have taken a "few" years to occur, considering the regions each of the species are traditionally known to have occupied!? Makes me wonder if man had a hand in it by their westward movement across this country or if it happened naturally long before with no involvement from man whatsoever? Seems like it would have taken thousands of years to transpire to get the Muley species solidified (If you will) and then dispersed from the Cascade range to the middle of the continent? Makes a good case for the belief that Whitetails had to have been spread acrossed most of the country before white man ever set foot on North American soil if that's the case. I guess I've always heard that Whitetails were pushed westward by man and that's why they ended up in the Dakota's, Montana, Wyoming....etc.etc What we don't know?!?

[boneaddict]

Unfortunately the answer isnt in black and white.   You have to take different variances into effect.   Major differences, migratory versus non migratory, timing with weather, pressure, and humanity.   Anecdotally I can tell you I often find the same deer within yards of where I saw them last year at the same time.  Anecdotally I can yell you I filmed x amount of big bucks on the same ridgeline year after year for a decade until they logged that ridge and I havent seen a deer there since.    Anecdotally I can tell you a migration route goes through spot x, but it depends on what they are doing when they hit spot x if its snowing hard and its peak or if they are there 2 weeks early because of a major storm, or in the middle of general or the snows never came so they didnt migrate through and the lower range is left vacant.   Lots of factors

[kentrek]

This buck was culled as a cross