What does "Bang Flop" mean to you???

[jrebel]

Reading through the black bear caliber / bullet thread...along with other deer / elk / bear/ etc. threads, you hear people talk about "Bang Flop", DRT, ect.... and it has me thinking. 

What does, "Bang Flop" (or other iterations) mean to folks.  Especially when we are talking about black bear.....I have had very few "Bang Flops". 

To me "Bang Flop" means didn't take a step.  Shot took the animal off it's feet and it never moved from the place it fell.  With black bear, I have only seen 2 true bang flops, one with a .270 / 150 partion and the other with a .338 lapua / 260 grain HH.  All but 1 of the other bears was dead within 30-40 yards of the shot and most dropped in sight....no tracking necessary. 

How do you all describe it...and what has been your experience on bears, or other animals.  I would say deer / elk have a higher percentage of bang flop based on my definition....maybe 50/50.   

[Alan K]

"Bang flops" with bears are spine shots. Never had one drop in its tracks from a shot behind or even through a shoulder. Have had it with deer and elk though, they're just "softer" animals than bears. 

Something like a Berger that comes apart will often fracture and basically shrapnel inside, at times getting into the spine or causing spinal shock even without the shot being centered on it.  Tough on meat at times, and curious how much lead and petals are scattered.

[2MANY]

I'm taking off my daily clothes.

[hunter399]

Spine or neck shot usually does the trick to bears.
Definition to me is ,drop in it's track....bang flop
Might try to get up ,or twitch or flop for a minute or two.

With bear it's also "rolling them" usually happens on a step hillside.
It can happen at the shot,or 50-100 yards and the bear will roll down the hill.
Cartwheel like a sack of potatoes down hill.

Seen deer "bang flop" even shot right in the shoulder.
It will happen when the animal is unaware of the hunter,. Seen it happen when shot between the eyes as well.
Fall over and legs will kick for minutes.

That's what it means to me
"Bang flop...Drop in its tracks"
Everyone has an oppion,so maybe I'm wrong.

DRT/BANG FLOP ,same thing my oppion.

[Boss .300 winmag]

When it drops where it’s standing.

My last mule deer back flipped where he stood.

My black tail this year took off thru a pile of logs, how he got thru it I don’t know.

[highside74]

When I say bang flop it means the animal was stone dead. No running just buckled. Generally I see this with a high shoulder/neck shot.

[jrebel]

So it sounds like we are all on the same page....

How often are you seeing bang flops with bear?  I personally think bear are some of the toughest animals on the planet (slightly exaggerated).....lethal / heart shots....like dead on the paw....and they still cover 10-50 yards.  My family has killed bear with mono / cup and core / small(er) caliber / large caliber and the results are mostly the same.  A well hit bear dies fast, but still covers ground. 

I have experienced great blood trails with mono's that have both entrance and exit wounds.  I have had not so great blood trails with only entrance from softer cup and core. 

My only two bang flops were:  1

1.  .270 win with 150 partition on a high shoulder shot.  Bear dropped in it's track, though did not die very fast.  Ended up walking up to it and having to put it down with a second shot.  This was a big sow....bearpaw can attest to the shot.  If I remember correctly it was 100-150 yard shot. 
2.  .338 lapua with 260 grain Hammer Hunter at 330 yards.  Hard quartering to shot.  Bullet entered in the base of the neck and exited second / third to the last rib on the opposite side.  Spine / lungs / Aortic arch all in volved.  This was hands down the biggest bear we have ever shot, estimated 500+ lbs.  The shot literally stoned the bear.....and it never wiggled, flinched, kicked, after hit.  We found the bear like it was sleeping with its head on it's front paws from falling straight down. 

Both of these bears involved spinal shots to some degree.  We have shot much smaller bears with small and large caliber rifles....heart / double lung / etc....and non of them have bang flopped. 

Couple pics to the big bear shot with the laupa to keep the thread interesting.  At the time I was 270 ish lbs and am 6 foot tall. 

[addicted1]

I’ve only banged flopped two animals, bear in the neck and a deer double longed and heart with my ML (Lehigh fragmenting bullet). Animals seem to have the ability to cover a lot of ground in those few seconds after shot and bleed out occurs, even with blown out shoulders. Just so happens that my first two big games animals were bang flop, and boy was I surprised to find out that’s not case. Steady streak of 20-50 yard recoveries since then. Which may not sound like much but, in the thick and nasty of western Washington it can take some time if there isn’t much of a blood trail.

[Bearhunter308]

That’s a BIG bear!

[Westside88]

I think of bang flop as they never took another step or jumped straight up and came down in the same spot. We haven't killed a lot of bears, but I hit one with 300 grain bloodline bullet in my muzzle loader and it went into an immediate face plant. For deer it's been a head or neck shot that dropped them right in their track. I hit a spike elk once high in the spine that air gapped the spine to the point that it was no longer intact. That one went down like dropping a wet towel

[ghosthunter]

I thought about this awhile, and when I hear or read some one say “Bang Flop, or can’t stop the Flop on Bone Collector series, it kinda turns me off.

Can’t really explain it but it like cheapens the event for me some how. Don’t get me wrong I get real excited when a buddy kills something. Recently a buddy killed a moose and I was so excited on videos I cussed up a storm.

I am not the guy who kneels and gives thanks either. Been killing critters since I was 8, but something about Bang Flop or Stop the Flop just doesn’t do the moment Justice for me.

 

[Westside88]

I thought about this awhile, and when I hear or read some one say “Bang Flop, or can’t stop the Flop on Bone Collector series, it kinda turns me off.

Can’t really explain it but it like cheapens the event for me some how. Don’t get me wrong I get real excited when a buddy kills something. Recently a buddy killed a moose and I was so excited on videos I cussed up a storm.

I am not the guy who kneels and gives thanks either. Been killing critters since I was 8, but something about Bang Flop or Stop the Flop just doesn’t due the moment Justice for me.

Very solid points. I don’t love it when the kill part is overemphasized either. I think most on here would agree with your points

 

[Fidelk]

When it drops where it’s standing.

My last mule deer back flipped where he stood.

My black tail this year took off thru a pile of logs, how he got thru it I don’t know.

I shot a spike blacktail and it was lying on it's side.....with blood coming out of it's chest and mouth. Not being the patient type, I didn't give it time to bleed out or stiffen up. As I approached, it jumped up and ran off through the woods. I followed it but then thought I might be trespassing on someone else's property. Recovered it the next morning and all was fine (late November). From lying there dying, it recovered enough to go another 50 yards or so and had immediately found a prominent game trail to run on......found it on the game trail, past where I had stopped the previous late afternoon.

[Fidelk]

When I say bang flop it means the animal was stone dead. No running just buckled. Generally I see this with a high shoulder/neck shot.

Hit a whitetail shooting from an elevated steep position. All I saw was a flash of white as he was knocked over. He was shot high over the lungs and broke his spine. Have shot and seen elk shot through the heart......both walked a slow circle and then fell over......stayed on their feet approx. 15 seconds.

[Bob33]

It is rare for an animal that isn't shot in the head or spinal cord to die instantly. The animal may become unconscious or collapse from shock but is alive for several seconds. It is somewhat of a mystery why some animals collapse instantly while other animals shot in the same way run. In my experience it seems that bigger animals like elk and moose collapse more often than smaller animals like pronghorns.

[mountainman]

It is rare for an animal that isn't shot in the head or spinal cord to die instantly. The animal may become unconscious or collapse from shock but is alive for several seconds. It is somewhat of a mystery why some animals collapse instantly while other animals shot in the same way run. In my experience it seems that bigger animals like elk and moose collapse more often than smaller animals like pronghorns.

I tend to agree to no rhyme or reason, especially with bears. Harvested exactly 30, and been in on many other kills. In my head it would be a rough guess of 50/50 on DRT and short runs. Array of calibers, ranges, bullets, angles, and sizes.  But dead is dead in the end. Shot a bull moose at 450 yards and wash the most classic “Bang Flop” I’ve ever witnessed. Can figure how to share the video though

[HUNTIN4SIX]

Boom flop every time we slaughter a steer

[dreadi]

I've had three.
2023 bear
2024 bear
2024 mule deer

Both bears were hit in the heart with Accubonds, 180gr and 165gr. The deer 143gr ELD-X. All three were lying where they were shot.


BLACK HAMMER ARMS
07/02 NFA Dealer

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[Griiz]

I stand hunt for deer and most of the animals I shoot bang flop. This year I saw my deer folding up before recoil hit me (pretty common) and I shot my bull in chest as he was facing me with muzzleloader at 80 yds and his legs collapsed under him. Nice when you get quick clean kills.

[C-Money]

I've had a few bang flops. 30-06, .270win, .243win. All were deer, except one big cow elk with the .270win. The .243win has given me the most bang flops. If not a bang flop, pretty extremely rare to not watch them fall over before getting out of sight.

[RobinHoodlum]

For me, bang->flop = piled up instantly with the animal not running off at all. Doesn't include cannonballing down on steep slopes due to gravity, which I've had happened on a couple bears. Not quite half of the bears I've harvested have been bang->flop.

While I also don't celebrate or glorify the kill, this is the most satisfactory/humane outcome IMO.

[jrebel]

I absolutely glorify a quick ethical kill.  Nothing makes me sicker to my stomach than a wounded animal that you don't have 100% confidence your going to retrieve.  We have all had those animals that you leave for a couple hours while you hope they expire and can be recovered.  Bang flops don't always mean instant death, but it does mean they died quickly.....or could be dispatched quickly with a follow up shot. 

The above being said, I think the vast majority of kills are not bang flops / drt / etc.  Was more curious to see what others experiences were because so many folk on the internet say most of their shots are bang flops.....and I feel it may be a little exaggerated.  I've been hunting since I was 8 and would say less than 50% of my rifle / muzzy kills (excluding archery for obvious reasons) have dropped where they stood......probably closer to 25% or less.  Almost all of my recoveries have been under 50 yards and in many cases, you see the animal fall before leaving your sight.  Some of this has to do with my hunting areas being more open, I'm sure the west side jungle is much different. 

It has seemed to be completely random with which animals flop and which runs make a mad dash.....  I've used large caliber, small caliber, mono, cup and core, etc, etc, etc, and there is no rhyme or reason.  I don't like to waste meat so I almost always look for a good double lung shot that doesn't involve the shoulders.  I have found that Monolithic bullets have less meat damage when involving large muscle groups. 

Anyhow.....I'm just rambling now!!   

[baldopepper]

Ok, I'll say what I'm sure others are thinking.  This is not a question you'd ask your wife or most other ladies. LOL

[hunter399]

I absolutely glorify a quick ethical kill.  Nothing makes me sicker to my stomach than a wounded animal that you don't have 100% confidence your going to retrieve.  We have all had those animals that you leave for a couple hours while you hope they expire and can be recovered.  Bang flops don't always mean instant death, but it does mean they died quickly.....or could be dispatched quickly with a follow up shot. 

The above being said, I think the vast majority of kills are not bang flops / drt / etc.  Was more curious to see what others experiences were because so many folk on the internet say most of their shots are bang flops.....and I feel it may be a little exaggerated.  I've been hunting since I was 8 and would say less than 50% of my rifle / muzzy kills (excluding archery for obvious reasons) have dropped where they stood......probably closer to 25% or less.  Almost all of my recoveries have been under 50 yards and in many cases, you see the animal fall before leaving your sight.  Some of this has to do with my hunting areas being more open, I'm sure the west side jungle is much different. 

It has seemed to be completely random with which animals flop and which runs make a mad dash.....  I've used large caliber, small caliber, mono, cup and core, etc, etc, etc, and there is no rhyme or reason.  I don't like to waste meat so I almost always look for a good double lung shot that doesn't involve the shoulders.  I have found that Monolithic bullets have less meat damage when involving large muscle groups. 

Anyhow.....I'm just rambling now!!   

I just shoot .....lol
Bang flop.....or looking for blood and grid searches.
Just part of the process.👍

[dilleytech]

To me bang flop means I Missed, made a bad shot, but got lucky and hit the spine.

The wife and I have shot 20 bears. About half of those were heart shots. Not one heart shot bear went bang flop. They all ran off at least 30-80 yards. My wife has shot a couple high though that went through the top of the lungs and ruptured the spinal cord and they dropped. I have personally never had any animal go bang flop from a vital hit. But I don’t aim for shoulder meat.

[birdshooter1189]

To me "bang flop" means it didn't take another step.

Example:

[LDennis24]

 

[Magnum_Willys]

Nearly all the elk we’ve been shooting with 300 gr go bang flop but some freeze on first shot snd bang floo on second

[hunter399]

Wait till you have a bang flop ,then you get over to the animal and it's gone. Got up and ran off while you was hiking to it.
Lol 😂😂😂😂

[passman65]

Bang Flop? It means what the buffalo did after I shot him behind the ear…...Freaking heavy thud 

[pianoman9701]

dropped in its tracks.

[Machias]

I've only had one Bang Flop bear.  Predator calling, shot at 10ish feet away, .30-06 right between the eyes.

[EnglishSetter]

Only bear I've ever shot was "bang flop".  25-06 with 120gr Partition that took out a couple inches of neck vertebra.  But he wasn't very big and jumped him out of a ravine while deer hunting.  Maybe 75 yards moving, offhand.  I ain't attesting to luck or skill.

[Bob33]

FWIW. I read the following on another site. I think the last sentence sums it up pretty well.

When larger animals drop when shot, the best explanation for this occurring is that they have suffered damage to the upper central nervous system. This can be from a high spine shot that will usually result in instant death, and if not, then immobilization (paralysis) such that the animal may be dispatched quickly. Instant drops can also be from a shot to the brain stem or the brain (instant unconsciousness and death).

Aside from these direct impacts, the upper CNS may be damage by a near miss and the nerves damaged by hydraulic shock. For example, you attempt a neck shot and the bullet passes just beneath the spine, but the temporary wound cavity (caused by hydraulic shock) envelopes the spine and causes tearing or other damage to the nerves.

Anther indirect method is hydrostatic shock. This is the damage of the brain stem or brain by a shot elsewhere in the body (say, the shoulder) where the energy pulse of the impact travels via the vascular system (primarily) and slams into the fairly delicate nerve centers of the brain. I have seen hogs die, for example, but a shot that simply passed through muscle and soft tissue of the shoulder without taking out the heart, lungs, spine, or major blood vessels, yet the hog went down on the spot. The only realistic explanation is hydrostatic shock.

Hydraulic shock and hydrostatic shock cannot reliably be counted on to drop/kill and animal. There is some relationship between the size of the animal and the velocity and size of the bullet impacting the animal and whether or not these may occur. Whereas a mouse may be overcome by a .22 lr shot, a similar shot with a .22 on a bison may largely just make the bison mad. There isn’t enough of an impact on the bison from the tiny and slow bullet as compared to what the same bullet would do to a mouse. Make sense?

Again, these indirect methods are not 100% by any stretch. When they do occur, it is a benefit to the hunter, though the hunter doesn’t know when they will occur. Other factors such as the direction of the impact, health of the animal, etc. etc. may influence these as well. Put another way, you could shoot 2 nearly identical deer in the same place with the same caliber and bullet from the same distance (assuming you aren’t shooting the spine or brain) and one deer drop in place and the other run a ways before collapsing.

[dilleytech]

That’s exactly right.

[blackveltbowhunter]

The opposite of what my rifle blacktail did this season