Should Mechanicals be legal here?

[colockumelk]

Radsav you are misunderstanding me on almost everything I have said. I am not saying a two blade is the best. I am not saying that a WASP makes a tiny hole. I am not saying mechanicals are better than fixed heads. I am only trying to disprove BWHNTRS biased opinions that 1. Mechanicals are junk. And 2. Fixed heads always penetrate deeper. Both are wrong.

I am not trying to sell people on mechanicals. My head of choice is a Slick Trick Magnum that has a 1 1/8" cutting diameter. A hole that most on archery talk consider tiny. I agree Archery talk is dumb. I joined it because they have the largest classifieds of any website. 

I agree with almost everything you said in your last post. So you were preaching to the choir at least with me.

[colockumelk]

Okay so don't laugh at me but.... During a recent move I lost my broadhead box. I had 9 of my beloved slick Trick Magnums in 125 grains.    I still have one left that happened to he on an arrow. But that one is promised to BWHNTER for his test.  ( In which I'm sure it will be the winning head).  . 

So since I'm only hunting Whitetails this year with my bow I decided to try a mechanical. Because I am always tinkering with my set up and trying new stuff. So I figured why not.  But man those things are expensive.  So what to do. Then comes along a stupid infomercial with Wade Nolan for Swhacker. Never even considered this head until the end of the commercial when it mentioned that they were buy one pack get the second pack free. So yep I have six Swhackers in my quiver. Not because of anything Wade Nolan said but because I am cheap sometimes.  

Would I use these on an elk.  Mmmmmm no!  It will be a cold day in hell before I switch my Slick Tricks out for western game.

[BOWHUNTER45]

I think we will forget about the test ...I really do not care anymore  1st of all I believe I need all the same weight heads and arrows to make any sense of this ...and as far as the test we have seen on the internet we will just have to believe what they say and do ... The best thing to do is buy whatever you feel will work for you .. and if they do what they claim they can do then stick with it ..All my opinions and experience is based on 30+ years of bowhunting and what has worked for me ...maybe I went over my head by saying mechanicals are junk ..But I am sure everyone knows how I run by now and nothen changes my mind  I will say this ...I thank Wasp for all the years I have hunted with their equipment and for all the trophies I have put on my wall thanks to their broadheads ...NOW LET HUNTING SEASON BEGIN and lets go kill some sheet ... Wasp Slicktricks or whatever your using  If mechanicals were legal I guess I might include them too     I have now shaved my head over this ...LITERALLY 

[Kowsrule30]

I don't archery hunt but I don't see the problem with them..... Not like they change effective range in a major way....

[colockumelk]

Rang BWHNTER shaving with a broadhead, that's hardcore. Especially using a WASP since they are so dull   Just kidding. In that test it penetrated 11.5" and most heads only penetrated 8-9.5" That being said its just a test trying to simulate a deer's body. Plywood isn't the same as ribs, ballistic gel isn't real blood and lungs. So please don't think that test I referenced was the be all to end all tests. As we all know the real test comes in September. 

I do however think the test is a good indication as to how tough the broadheads are. In this area the fixed heads defenitaly stood the trst way better than the mechanicals.  I think in the top ten scores on that guys test there were only two mechanicals so what does that tell you. And yeah the Rage was not in the top 10 despite what all the tv adds would have you believe.

[rainshadow1]

My answer is the same as the question of sabots in muzzleloaders... even if I was dressing in buckskins and a coonskin hat, shooting a flintlock/recurve, sneaking around in moccasins... I'd still want the most terminally effective projectile possible.

How long it takes the animal to die isn't part of the primitive discussion. Everything up to projectile penetration is stylistic/taste/tradition... the hole it makes? Hey, bigger the better! Put 'em down!

[RadSav]

Radsav you are misunderstanding me on almost everything I have said. I am not saying a two blade is the best. I am not saying that a WASP makes a tiny hole. I am not saying mechanicals are better than fixed heads. I am only trying to disprove BWHNTRS biased opinions that 1. Mechanicals are junk. And 2. Fixed heads always penetrate deeper. Both are wrong.

Colockumelk - I was not trying to dismiss anything you had said.  Thus no copied quote.  I was just hoping to clarify things a little bit as to the differences in heads. Or the lack of differences as the case often is.  Sorry if it seemed I was picking on your thoughts or opinions.  That was not the intention at all.

So often I think the desire to limit ones choices in hunting equipment is based wholly on emotion.  I'm not a WDFW hater, but I often think fact takes a back seat in decision over fear and conjecture at many times.  Many of these so called tests and testimonies we see and hear have no fact based results yet plant a seed of benefit or doubt about such products.  My personal belief is that the individual bowhunter should have the right to chose for themselves just as rifle hunters are allowed to chose the bullets they prefer.  As long as stray arrows are allowed to work their way out by restricting barbed heads and blades have a ground sharp edge I see no reason for restriction.

Sure there are broadheads I personally would never shoot (most of them actually).  As there are bullets I would never shoot big game with.  But, to believe that the fear of us losing our seasons or hunting rights because of a broadhead choice is unsubstantiated fear.  As the benefits and negatives just don't exist beyond the hype and consumer marketing.  And even the best built and designed broadhead on the face of the earth is worthless if the individual shooting it does not exhibit a willingness and dedication to keep it sharp.

[colockumelk]

Radsav looking hack on it I may have been an emotionally sensitive princess.  So no hard feelings.  Like I said before I agree with about 99% of what you said. I was trying to he the devils advocate for mechanicals and thought you may have misunderstood my intemtions. 

[bow-n-head]

Well I don't know about all your scientific test this and disprove that, but I switched to Rage 3 blades 100 gr. 3 years ago. I have seen 3 of them go through a quartering elk. Two lodged in the off side shoulder, and the third poked out right out in front of the shoulder. Also got an antelope and a whitetail buck. Watched them all hit the ground, no blood trailing needed. None of which most of you would consider a close shot. I just know I got sick and tired of my Thunderheads planing off. I will shoot Rage forever. I don't know about what is right or wrong I just think everyone should have the choice to make for themselves. The more the government tells me what to do the more I hate them. He who beats his drum the loudest gets his way is BS.

Let them make their own decision.

Glad I don't live in Washington.

[throttlejocky20]

No for me. I never have to worry about a fixed bladed broadhead working after it leaves my bow.

[jess]

yes

[RadSav]

No for me. I never have to worry about a fixed bladed broadhead working after it leaves my bow.

Does that mean you want to take away others right to chose for themselves?  Or just "no" for you personally?  Just curious to know if your vote is accurately answering the posted question.  I'm not arguing either way.  Just trying to clarify.

[colockumelk]

I never have to worry about a fixed bladed broadhead working after it leaves my bow.

This is not true.  Fixed blades fail too.  Everytime you release that arrow no matter what type of arrow, broadhead you use etc.  There is ALWAYS a chance of failure on the part of your projectile. 

[bearpaw]

I'm all about having free choice on any issue unless there is a legitimate good reason not to use something.

Lighted Nocks
I totally support that. IMHO, they offer the bow hunter no advantage in the hunt above regular nocks other than the ability to possibly see your arrow flight and see the location of the hit better, thus possibly enabling you to recover a larger percentage of wounded animals. That seems like a win/win to me, I cannot understand why anyone cannot support that.


Mechanical Broadheads
I cannot support them for western big game hunting. I've had hunters show up with these things and made them go to town and get legal broadheads. Then I found out they were sneaking them into the field. 

One guy in Idaho arrowed a 6x6 bull and also arrowed a 26-28 inch mule deer on the same day a few years ago. Didn't kill either animal, the mechanicals hit heavy bone in both cases and it stopped the arrow. When I found out I was extremely pissed about that, both because they are illegal and because two animals were wounded that quality fixed blades would have likely killed.

IMHO, it's not just about how big of hole, or about how much penetration in gell, what matters in a big game broadhead is that it reliably penetrates no matter if you hit that perfectly angled shot correctly or if you accidentally hit the shoulder or some other heavy bone. I shot clear through both shoulders of my muskox with a muzzy as would many other good fixed blades, but I know at least some mechanicals would have stopped at the shoulder, or the mechanical blades would have broke off reducing the effectiveness of the broadhead. Maybe there is some new fangled mechanical that can take that kind of punishment, maybe not. But I know for a fact that some mechanicals cannot take hitting the bone.

What really matters to me about this issue is that I know mechanicals are more prone to "failure to kill" in certain curcumstances and that is the sole reason I am opposed to their use on western big game. I do not see them as a positive for recovering as many animals. They are not a win/win situation.

My apologies, but I cannot in good mind support mechanicals when I know they could result in a higher percentage of unrecovered animals. 

[colockumelk]

No appologies needed bearpaw. It was a very respectfully written and well though out argument against the use of mechanicals for western game.  I don't necessarily agree with it but you did bring up good points. 

I would say that there are more than a few newer mechanical broadheads out there that have smaller cutting diameters to improve penetration and increase blade strength/durability and some that were designed specifically for elk (Grim Reapers, Ulmer Edge, Swhacker ) which are also built out west. Those heads out of a well tuned bow are more than capable of penetrating an elk shoulder. I think the majority of mechanical failures are due to the person doing the shooting, not the fault of the broadhead.