Wedge Pack: More cattle attacked in Stevens County (poll and letter)

[sebek556]

great way to explain it Dale 

[Ridgeratt]

And I will venture to say that the problem won't get to much worse in the wedge pack  because the good ole boys will take the problems into there own hands....

It's unfortunate people are forced to this extreme. But this is exactly what happened in ID/MT, people put up with wolves for about 10 years, now they simply act.

Perspective
It may be hard for a wolf lover living in a concrete jungle to understand this mentality so let me put it in terms they might understand. You have been hearing for years about people being targetted by thiefs and vandals in other cities but it has never been a problem where you live. Better never be a problem either because it's just not right.

What if you go outside in the morning to go to work and someone has vandalized your car to the tune of $1000 in damages. That would make you pretty upset, but you would call the cops and hope they can prevent it from happening again. Cops watch your place for a day or two but eventually they have to quit watching your place.

After another day or two you go outside to go to work and another vehicle has been vandalized to the tune of $1000. You call the cops, they reassure you that it won't happen again if you park in a different spot, leave outside lights on, and put flags up around your property boundary.

Finally you get the 1st car back from the bodyshop and bring it home. Next morning it is vandalized to the tune of $1000 again. The cops and insurance tell you that you didn't do enough to deter the vandals, that they are not certain who it is, but maybe you caused the problem by parking your car in the wrong location or did something else wrong and it baited in the vandals, so you don't get reimbursement for any of the damages. You are already out $3000 and the next morning you find your lawnmower has been stolen. This time you have had it, you don't even bother calling the cops. You set up all night with a spotlight and your grandads shotgun that you happen to have inherited.

About 2am you hear vandals, you step outside to protect your property and the guy starts to pull a gun, so you shoot, you probably meant to scare him off but you accidentally hit him and the guy dies. You get sued by his family and the legal systen sentences you to jail because the guy was pulling a knife and not a gun.

That is about the situation ranchers and hunters are in with wolves. Is it any wonder that the "joking" term "SSS" has cropped up? The problem is that wolves will eventually cause some rancher to do exactly what the homeowner did to the vandal. Because our laws on wolves are simply wrong, that rancher will suffer the consequences of wolves one way or another, just as the homeowner did in the scenario with the vandals.

Just got back from north and all I can observe is an over abundance of Rosewood colored ford's. Friday nite there was a string of 7 headed south around 4 P.M.  just north of Barney's all had exmpt tags on them. Lots of gov rigs going past the place also Saturday.

[RG]

One more piece of Killmore's analogy.  The vandals were never there in the neighborhood until the vandal lovers group from the east coast decided there should be vandals in that neighborhood and transplanted them there.  None of the vandal lovers group members live there so they suffer no losses whatsoever.

[silverdalesauer]

Thanks, Dale..

I believe he was a "wolf in sheep's clothing"   

[Killmore]

Perfect Dale, Good way of explaining how this works if the shoe was on the other foot (Them being the victim's instead of the farmers and ranchers)

[Atroxus]

The game department should just give the ranchers with the problems x amount of tags then  when they use them then evaluate the situation. The ranches and employees are the only ones that can do the most good because they are there everyday. I think the department has  a time bomb on there hands and it's starting to go off and they know it.

Only problem I see with that is ranchers using those tags to turn a profit. I don't doubt there are people who would pay farmers a large chunk of money for a wolf tag. I think in these cases WDFW should allow x number of tags, but that the rancher should be given two options. Either WDFW distributes the tags to eligible hunters and the farmer allows those hunters access to fill those tags for free, or the farmer gets the tags but cannot sell them and must kill the wolves themselves with the same rules in regards to group hunting that any other hunter in the state has to follow. If handled properly it could help address rancher concerns, help generate revenue for WDFW instead of just costing them money, and could open hunting opportunities for licensed hunters. 

[Killmore]

I would bet this farmer is mad enough that he would make sure his tags get used without selling them and then running the risk of a hunter not filling the permit (like not living in the area) But I do agree with you that it could create some issues.

[buckfvr]

If wolves are going to be hunted by the public, it will be permit application and moose like expensive tag.....wdfw will make money if they decide to allow any hunts.   

[Northway]

The game department should just give the ranchers with the problems x amount of tags then  when they use them then evaluate the situation. The ranches and employees are the only ones that can do the most good because they are there everyday. I think the department has  a time bomb on there hands and it's starting to go off and they know it.

Only problem I see with that is ranchers using those tags to turn a profit. I don't doubt there are people who would pay farmers a large chunk of money for a wolf tag. I think in these cases WDFW should allow x number of tags, but that the rancher should be given two options. Either WDFW distributes the tags to eligible hunters and the farmer allows those hunters access to fill those tags for free, or the farmer gets the tags but cannot sell them and must kill the wolves themselves with the same rules in regards to group hunting that any other hunter in the state has to follow. If handled properly it could help address rancher concerns, help generate revenue for WDFW instead of just costing them money, and could open hunting opportunities for licensed hunters. 

I think if that type of situation were ever an option, only folks who specialize in wolf hunting should be eligible to use those tags. For example: If it were an out of season predator control situation, and a whole pack was slated for removal, you would want someone who knew exactly what they were doing. It could get messy for any number of reasons otherwise. The only problem with that is they would probably want compensation, especially if the wolves were to be taken during the time of year when the pelts have little value. That could still end up being cheaper than having additional agents on the WDFW payroll, though.

[Atroxus]

The game department should just give the ranchers with the problems x amount of tags then  when they use them then evaluate the situation. The ranches and employees are the only ones that can do the most good because they are there everyday. I think the department has  a time bomb on there hands and it's starting to go off and they know it.

Only problem I see with that is ranchers using those tags to turn a profit. I don't doubt there are people who would pay farmers a large chunk of money for a wolf tag. I think in these cases WDFW should allow x number of tags, but that the rancher should be given two options. Either WDFW distributes the tags to eligible hunters and the farmer allows those hunters access to fill those tags for free, or the farmer gets the tags but cannot sell them and must kill the wolves themselves with the same rules in regards to group hunting that any other hunter in the state has to follow. If handled properly it could help address rancher concerns, help generate revenue for WDFW instead of just costing them money, and could open hunting opportunities for licensed hunters. 

I think if that type of situation were ever an option, only folks who specialize in wolf hunting should be eligible to use those tags. For example: If it were an out of season predator control situation, and a whole pack was slated for removal, you would want someone who knew exactly what they were doing. It could get messy for any number of reasons otherwise. The only problem with that is they would probably want compensation, especially if the wolves were to be taken during the time of year when the pelts have little value. That could still end up being cheaper than having additional agents on the WDFW payroll, though.

Personally I think there are plenty of hunters capable of hunting wolves. I am not one of them, so I wouldn't put in for a tag even if I could. But I think it is unrealistic to say that only "specialized hunters" are capable of hunting/killing wolves.

[dreamingbig]

My problem with the wolf reintroduction is simple.  Hunters pay for the majority of wildlife management.  Herds of deer and elk have grown and prospered because of efforts by hunters across the nation.  Then, in the dark of the night, the federal government thought it would be a good idea to reintroduce wolves without any input from the single biggest user group supporting the wildlife of today.

When the economy dipped and went into recession, sportsmen  have been asked to pay more and more to "manage" wildlife and we have been rewarded with a competitor at the top of the food chain that hasn't paid a dime and has been responsible for decreased opportunity.

I am a firm believer that decreased or no hunting opportunity was the end goal of the wolf reintroduction but we as a group need to keep fighting this ridiculous decision.

Thanks Dale and all others who keep posting on here for keeping up the fight.

[Northway]

"Wolf kill target raised to 4 in NE Washington"

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2012/aug/20/wolf-kill-target-raised-4-ne-washington/

"ENDANGERED SPECIES — After discussions with ranchers who've had cattle injured and killed by wolves in the past four weeks, Washington Fish and Wildlife Department officials have raised to four the number of wolves that might be killed to stop the depredation.

The guideline had been set at three last week after a Diamond M Ranch calf was injured and another calf was killed by the Wedge Pack on a Colville National Forest grazing lease in northern Stevens County near Laurier."

[pianoman9701]

The game department should just give the ranchers with the problems x amount of tags then  when they use them then evaluate the situation. The ranches and employees are the only ones that can do the most good because they are there everyday. I think the department has  a time bomb on there hands and it's starting to go off and they know it.

Only problem I see with that is ranchers using those tags to turn a profit. I don't doubt there are people who would pay farmers a large chunk of money for a wolf tag. I think in these cases WDFW should allow x number of tags, but that the rancher should be given two options. Either WDFW distributes the tags to eligible hunters and the farmer allows those hunters access to fill those tags for free, or the farmer gets the tags but cannot sell them and must kill the wolves themselves with the same rules in regards to group hunting that any other hunter in the state has to follow. If handled properly it could help address rancher concerns, help generate revenue for WDFW instead of just costing them money, and could open hunting opportunities for licensed hunters. 

I think if that type of situation were ever an option, only folks who specialize in wolf hunting should be eligible to use those tags. For example: If it were an out of season predator control situation, and a whole pack was slated for removal, you would want someone who knew exactly what they were doing. It could get messy for any number of reasons otherwise. The only problem with that is they would probably want compensation, especially if the wolves were to be taken during the time of year when the pelts have little value. That could still end up being cheaper than having additional agents on the WDFW payroll, though.

Everyone should be eligible. Every gosh darn person in a problem area should be hunting these critters. There should be hired guns and trappers after a specific pack kills a targeted number of livestock. The farmers should have free range to kill as many as they can; their neighbors, too.

When they were extinguished back in the 50's, it'd taken decades of poison, trapping, shooting, anything we could do to get rid of them. It took decades. Now, without killing traps or poison, it'll be impossible to get rid of them, never mind get them to a manageable level. Everyone should be in on killing them once it's decided they should be killed.

[Ridgeratt]

The sad part about this whole story is all the government agency's were aware of these animals since the late 90's. But due to the close proximity to Canada they were never classified as a resident pack. These were thought of as a transient pack because the ranged back and forth across the line. Now it seems they are the largest trouble that we have and now they are an issue.
The border to these ranchers is in some places the width of a county road to nothing more than a barbwire fence.
My own belief is that the USFWS and the WDFG should be held personally and morally responsible for all the losses sustained by the cattle ranchers for lack of process. To make any amends to the sportsman of this state, I'd get a better return on Lotto ticket's.

[CAMPMEAT]

The sad part about this whole story is all the government agency's were aware of these animals since the late 90's. But due to the close proximity to Canada they were never classified as a resident pack. These were thought of as a transient pack because the ranged back and forth across the line. Now it seems they are the largest trouble that we have and now they are an issue.
The border to these ranchers is in some places the width of a county road to nothing more than a barbwire fence.
My own belief is that the USFWS and the WDFG should be held personally and morally responsible for all the losses sustained by the cattle ranchers for lack of process. To make any amends to the sportsman of this state, I'd get a better return on Lotto ticket's.

Ya know, the agency's will blame each other, WTF ?, we didn't know anything about this.