Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?

[RG]

dvolmer, I appreciate your concern.  For a little insight, the gun barrel is built to handle the type of projectile that will be used in it.  Patched round ball barrels are built with a 1 turn in 66 inch or even 72 inch twist.  This stabilizes the ball and doesn't tear the patch.  My guns have green mountain custom barrels on them and will shoot very tight groups, at 50 yards all the holes are connected and probably would be at 100 too if I could shoot the iron sights that well any more with my aging eyesight.  Conical bullets have traditionally been designed to shoot out of barrels with a 1 turn in 48 inch twist or faster.  The Knight and other barrels which are designed to shoot sabots typically have approximately 1 turn in 27 inch twist.  I've seen guys shooting round balls out of the fast twist barrels and sometimes you can do that.  I'm not sure what would happen if you shot a sabot out of a slow barrel.  My guns are traditional and I shoot traditional ammo, including loading from a powder horn and powder measure for each shot.  I patch the round ball with linen and a special barrel lube.  I shoot actual black powder too.  I do all this because that's what I like to do.  I shot through a bull elk side to side through the lungs with a 220 grain .54 round ball, he died within 40 yards.  I also killed a mule deer buck in Utah at 135 yards, one shot, with the same size round ball.  I've killed other elk and muleys, all of which expired quickly.  The round balls are made from pure lead, no alloy, because they won't "upset" and seal the rifling at ignition otherwise.  They expand very well and don't break up at all.  It's an effective method to hunt, the problem is that people who have been raised on magnum rifles and all kinds of fancy bullets can't wrap their mind around how these primitive guns could ever get the job done.  As a person who has used patched round balls for 32+ years and never lost an animal, I can assure you that, when used within their limitations, and that's critical with any weapon, they get it done just fine.  I have modern rifles too and, in fact, I have a modern rifle deer tag this year and will be using a .280 Rem. with Nosler Accubond bullets, so I'm not anti anything, I use it all.

[Dan-o]

I shoot 400 grain Hard Cast Lead Harvesters (saboted) when I hunt with my muzzleloader.

I don't oppose round balls, but something tells me if Daniel Boone could choose, he'd be out there on the frontier with is trusty TC Black Diamond XR shooting saboted Harvesters.     

[RG]

If Daniel Boone had a choice he would have used a .300 Weatherby or something like that probably.

[Dan-o]

If Daniel Boone had a choice he would have used a .300 Weatherby or something like that probably.

Na.   He'd have had the good sense to know that Modern firearm season is too crowdwd.     

[RG]

 

[Heredoggydoggy]

RG is right on about the barrel rifling twist rate for patched ball vs. conical slug.  Most new muzzle loader manufacturers now list what the twist rate is in their guns, depending on what you want to shoot.  Some even offer both options.  My .54 Hawken Carbine is in the faster twist for heavy hunting slugs, and I hunt with the T/C Maxi-Hunter conicals.  The gun seems to shoot a patched ball accurately, too, and they are much more enjoyable to shoot than the big chunks of lead!  3 or 4 shots with the Maxi-Hunters, and I feel like I went a few rounds with Mike Tyson.

[dvolmer]

RG  i can tell you are a true Sportsman and Woodsman.  Keep the roundballs coming and i can tell you have spent the time and have the knowledge to keep the ways of our Grandfathers not a thing of the past.  Great information on this thread.  I doubt I will ever go as traditional as you guys have due to time restraints in my life and all of my other interests but you never know.  i plan on retiring in 7 to 10 years and maybe an old flintlock will be in the plans.  Good shooting and happy hunting!

[MuzzyHunter28]

Custom Built Virginia Long Rifle, Built by Mike Keller (Father) Left handed 54. Flintlock. 295Gr Ball, Surrounded By .15 thousandths Pillow Ticking being bushed by 80 Grains of FFF.  3" Groups at 65 Yrds. Killed 4x4 Muley in 2010 at 80 yrds. Left a exit wound size of a Apple. Fun as Hell to shoot and Keeping things Traditional!

[Serious Redneck]

I got a TC .54 Renegade and have shot maxi balls and PRBs out if it, same accuracy out of both for the most part.  First deer I ever shot was with it at 60 yds with a PRB.  And I have taken 2 elk with it using both projectiles, Both were heart shots and a few steps then down.  And both were less than 15 yards away too, making the shots easy!  I want to get a .58 GM RB barrel for it just to shoot that big ol round ball and see what it will do.

Happy day to ya.

[ACLSRN50]

I am afraid that I have to agree with Musketman. Kudos to you Musketman for not having fallen into the newer inline craze that is currently proliferating black powder hunting today. Don't get me wrong - I fully understand that today's in-line's provide better long range performance, ballistics, etc. that the Ole patched round ball shot from the Hawken's or Mountain Rifle's. However, I am a hopeless romantic of an era where Mountain men prevailed and relied and lived by their mountain rifle alone...

I own and choose to hunt with a Lyman .54 cal Great Plains rifle and love it - while my buddies all shooting in-lines. We respect each others choice of weapons. However - for me - I feel that if I am going to hunt with a inline, scope, etc. I may as well just hunt with my rifle or shotgun honestly. Not much difference really since I have always pretty-much been a 'one shot' kill hunter no matter WHAT I hunt with. So I don't see myself handicapped using my Great Plains rifle....however, to each is own - and I respect that. There is something about the Ole lure of shooting a patched round ball from my rifle that does it for ME - not as efficient theoretically as a sabot perhaps - but has worked for years for the 1800 era of mountain men and certainly works for me as well. While it IS nice to have a scope on my rifles due to my now aging eyes - there is just something about carrying that leather possibles bag and that heavy octagon barrelled rifle in my hands - doing things - the way it used to be....

I'm not sure where the current trend is going to go these days with muzzleloaders still - the only thing that seems to be lacking is the brass case at this point - and if I am going to drop $500+ for a rifle like that - it may as well be a .30-.06 I feel. Just not my cup of tea....

But as I said - "To each is own" and I respect that - that today more-than-ever, hunters need to come together and respected each others differences and choices of weapons, style, etc. as the anti's are out there to get all of us yet...

[ACLSRN50]

This is my Lyman Great Plains rifle. I love it, in a .54 percussion.

[Lcl 66 Tinner]

This is my Lyman Great Plains rifle. I love it, in a .54 percussion.

I am afraid that I have to agree with Musketman. Kudos to you Musketman for not having fallen into the newer inline craze that is currently proliferating black powder hunting today. Don't get me wrong - I fully understand that today's in-line's provide better long range performance, ballistics, etc. that the Ole patched round ball shot from the Hawken's or Mountain Rifle's. However, I am a hopeless romantic of an era where Mountain men prevailed and relied and lived by their mountain rifle alone...

I own and choose to hunt with a Lyman .54 cal Great Plains rifle and love it - while my buddies all shooting in-lines. We respect each others choice of weapons. However - for me - I feel that if I am going to hunt with a inline, scope, etc. I may as well just hunt with my rifle or shotgun honestly. Not much difference really since I have always pretty-much been a 'one shot' kill hunter no matter WHAT I hunt with. So I don't see myself handicapped using my Great Plains rifle....however, to each is own - and I respect that. There is something about the Ole lure of shooting a patched round ball from my rifle that does it for ME - not as efficient theoretically as a sabot perhaps - but has worked for years for the 1800 era of mountain men and certainly works for me as well. While it IS nice to have a scope on my rifles due to my now aging eyes - there is just something about carrying that leather possibles bag and that heavy octagon barrelled rifle in my hands - doing things - the way it used to be....

I'm not sure where the current trend is going to go these days with muzzleloaders still - the only thing that seems to be lacking is the brass case at this point - and if I am going to drop $500+ for a rifle like that - it may as well be a .30-.06 I feel. Just not my cup of tea....

But as I said - "To each is own" and I respect that - that today more-than-ever, hunters need to come together and respected each others differences and choices of weapons, style, etc. as the anti's are out there to get all of us yet...

I have the same rifle and love it also, I think the modern muzzles should be part of the modern hunt though. I do agree with you that we need to stick together as a whole. Muzzleloader season is supposed to be a primitive hunt and i think the modern muzzies are taking that away.

[dscubame]

Many years ago I would hunt patch and ball a great deal.  The round ball tumbling through the air reaks havic on the deer.  The Palouse muzzy any deer season back in the early 90's was a good season with great memories.

[ACLSRN50]

 
[/quote]I have the same rifle and love it also, I think the modern muzzles should be part of the modern hunt though. I do agree with you that we need to stick together as a whole. Muzzleloader season is supposed to be a primitive hunt and i think the modern muzzies are taking that away.
[/quote]

I agree honestly. No offense to those that choose to hunt with the in-lines, but I don't feel they are primitive rifles per se. Yeah, they take black power or imitation black powder, only fire one shot, are loaded thru the muzzle and ignition is via a cap (or shotshell primer now or a 209 muzzleloader primer) - but to me - if you're gonna hunt with one of them, a scope, a sabot - then you may as well be out with the shotgun or a high powered rifle!

[RG]

I had the any bull blackpowder tag in Goose Prairie this year.  I shot a 5 point bull from 70 yards with the flintlock, .54 round ball, and 90 grains fffg goex black powder.  It broke his lower right front leg since he was walking, went through and punched a hole in his heart.  He took 5 steps, tipped over, and rolled down the hill.  No sabot with fancy copper coated whiz bang bullet could have done it any better.  My son in law and my other hunting partner use the fancy bullets but I'm too traditional.