Looking for a Chocolate Lab pup updated found dog

[highside74]

New to waterfowling. Looking for a pup to work with and be ready for next year. We cant afford a breeder dog so if anyone know's of an affordable litter coming up please let me know. Thanks

[cem3434]

What's affordable to you?  Everyone's definition of affordable is a little different. 

[highside74]

$300-$500

[Special T]

With that kind of price range i would consider adopting... Check out one of the many rescues and keep an eye out for some one hard up that needs to find a home for a hunting dog. 

[Stilly bay]

With that kind of price range i would consider adopting... Check out one of the many rescues and keep an eye out for some one hard up that needs to find a home for a hunting dog. 

 

my first lab was from the bargain bin. he had horrible hip dysplasia and went blind after his first hunting season. I bought him from a back yard breeder, the type that give all other back yard breeders a bad name. he had no business breeding the dogs he had and no business selling the product. the pup I bought lived a happy ten long years at great financial expense to me and my family.

there is a big reason why they test hips and eyes in labs and I wouldn't purchase pup from a litter that didn't check out.

save your money and put it toward a pup from a responsible breeder, you won't regret it. or give a home to a rescue.

[Special T]

I didn't mean it in a negative way... I looked for a rescue chessie for w while before i go t my pup. There have been some dogs on here with hunting experience that weren't more than a year or 2 old that found new homes here...for FREE... Don't be in a big hurry let people know you are looking, DONT be inflexible on color and you just might land a bad ass  hunting dog because you CAN provide a good home. 

[highside74]

We are in no hurry. That's why I tossed it out here. I figured someone might hear about a dog and let me know. We are a family of 4 on five acres that loves to hunt. Our new friend will have a great when it arrives in the future. My buddy also has 2 large ponds only 1 mile away so getting wet will be easy. I can't wait.

[highside74]

Oh and don't be afraid to tell it how it is when your dealing with me. I appreciate guidance from guys who have been there before.

[Special T]

Have you ever trained a dog before? This is kinda new age and not necessarily hunting related but 2 books i like are "the art of raising a puppy" by the Monks of New Skete, and Mother knows Best; the natural way to train your dog. carol benjemen...   I think for labs they are good, and they mostly work on my Chessie, but mainly because i'm more stubborn than him.    I wouldn't buy them new but would borrow or buy used. 

[Happy Gilmore]

Chocolates are more likely to have health issues than blacks or yellows. Lots of elbow and excercised induced collapse issues. I wouldn't own one unless I had knowledge of the parents health certifications.

Actually, I wouldn't own a dog who didn't have the basic health certifications done on the parents of the breeding. It's just irresponsible.

[cem3434]

Chocolates are more likely to have health issues than blacks or yellows. Lots of elbow and excercised induced collapse issues. I wouldn't own one unless I had knowledge of the parents health certifications.

Actually, I wouldn't own a dog who didn't have the basic health certifications done on the parents of the breeding. It's just irresponsible.

Is there some type of study that supports this or is this just a theory of yours?

We have owned several black and chocolate labs over the years.  I don't think the color has anything to do with their overall health and I have never seen anything that supports your statement.  The key is to get a pup that comes from decent hunting and field trial lines.  Another big part of their overall health is keeping them active and keeping them on a healthy diet. 

In my experience, we have actually had more issues with our black labs.  We had one pup that had a liver shunt and we had to have him put down at 14 months even though he had a health certificate.  Our black female is about 10 now and she became epileptic when she was about 2 years old.  She has been on phenobarbital ever since.  Our chocolate male on the other hand is almost 5 years old and we have never had any health issues with him.  He is very active and seems to be in great health, but that doesn't mean something cant change a year from now.

Any responsible breeder will have basis health checkups done on their dogs, but a piece of paper cant dictate the overall health of a dog or their longevity.  As far as certifications go, I have seen dogs that have hip and eye certifications go blind and get dysplasia. I have also seen labs with health certifications develop cancer at an early age. 

I agree that a basic health certification should be done on any puppy, but I also think the paper is more for for piece of mind and it doesn't guarantee that your dog will live to be a certain age and never have health issues, regardless of their color. 

[Happy Gilmore]

Explain what a "health certificate" is you're talking about.

[JBar]

Highside give me a call.

[Happy Gilmore]

 

 I have seen dogs that have hip and eye certifications go blind and get dysplasia. I have also seen labs with health certifications develop cancer at an early age. 

I agree that a basic health certification should be done on any puppy, but I also think the paper is more for for piece of mind and it doesn't guarantee that your dog will live to be a certain age and never have health issues, regardless of their color. 
[/quote]

Tell me what type of certifications the ones you knew personally had and what their registered name was and I'll look up what tests were done. If you know anything about Chocolate lines, you know you must take care in what you are buying or breeding. (I might take that back because a lot of people just want $300 a pup and don't give a crap if the pups new homes get dogs with bad hips, eyes, elbows, EIC, CNM and die or have severe health isssues. It's all about the ease of selling pups when they are $300 a piece and you get to put $3000 in your back pocket for two months of work) 
PRA testing will guarantee your dog will not go blind. OFA on hips will guarantee your dog does not have displyasia. Your dog CAN get cancer and go blind, your dog "can" be injured and be unable to walk. DNA testing will however, rule out blindness from PRA, exercise induced collapse, CNM and radiology will tell you if a dogs hip sockets are set properly(which will not change for life) and if elbows have issues.

[Stilly bay]

Is there some type of study that supports this or is this just a theory of yours?

  ...      

[Stilly bay]

Is there some type of study that supports this or is this just a theory of yours?

just thought I would add;     

[Happy Gilmore]

Is there some type of study that supports this or is this just a theory of yours?

just thought I would add;     

To start with....chocolate factoring is a recessive gene. Some folks who breed chocolates don't even know what that means. It's like letting two gingers breed.. 

[Stilly bay]

Is there some type of study that supports this or is this just a theory of yours?

just thought I would add;     

To start with....chocolate factoring is a recessive gene. Some folks who breed chocolates don't even know what that means. It's like letting two gingers breed.. 

is that another one of your crazy crack pot theories?     next I suppose you will try and tell us the earth is round. yeesh.

all I know for sure is that only another Ginger may call another Ginger "Ginger".


Tim Minchin - Taboo

[Russ McDonald]

Where were we now.  Oh the op is looking for a dog here is a link for you http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,108470.msg1420623.html#msg1420623

[JBar]

Being a ginger I take offence to that! Since chocolate factoring is a recessive gene that would put chessies where? Oh I know 5 beers short of a six pack!  OFA and all that don't guarantee anything they just increase your chances for a healthier dog. My back yard breeder chocholate will be 12 in January to see him in the field you wouldn't know he's that old. He was an oops and we picked up our oops almost twelve years ago ran him through all the hunt test crap wife got his senior title got tired of the hunt test scene. Best 200 we ever spent!!! Now my pro bred black with all the cerf OFA certs in his back ground developed elbow problems at around 8 1/2. Both dogs have been run HARD every year so all things being equal in care and activity level the chocholate has way better health. My 

[coachcw]

mallard lake kennals in granite falls

[Stilly bay]

Being a ginger I take offence to that! Since chocolate factoring is a recessive gene that would put chessies where? Oh I know 5 beers short of a six pack!  OFA and all that don't guarantee anything they just increase your chances for a healthier dog. My back yard breeder chocholate will be 12 in January to see him in the field you wouldn't know he's that old. He was an oops and we picked up our oops almost twelve years ago ran him through all the hunt test crap wife got his senior title got tired of the hunt test scene. Best 200 we ever spent!!! Now my pro bred black with all the cerf OFA certs in his back ground developed elbow problems at around 8 1/2. Both dogs have been run HARD every year so all things being equal in care and activity level the chocholate has way better health. My 

sounds like you have a great dog and a great deal of good luck. surely not every dog back yard bred uncertified will be train wreck. probably not even half of them. but if I want to gamble the next ten years of my hunting life with a dog I want to make sure I have as many good odds on my side as possible before I roll the dice.

but to weigh your one positive personal experience against all the responsible lab breeders that get their dogs hips, eyes, and elbows checked out really doesn't amount to much. its like saying you had unprotected sex with a prostitute and didn't get an STD so there for all the people with aids, herpes, ect must be irrelevant.

if more people are aware of the genetic problems that can occur in labs (and many other breeds), then hopefully fewer people will purchase from unscrupulous breeders that don't get the parents checked out. if fewer people buy from these breeders hopefully someday their market will dry up and and there will be no more breeding of dogs that have bad hips, bad elbow, or blindness.

[Happy Gilmore]

Being a ginger I take offence to that! Since chocolate factoring is a recessive gene that would put chessies where? Oh I know 5 beers short of a six pack!  OFA and all that don't guarantee anything they just increase your chances for a healthier dog. My back yard breeder chocholate will be 12 in January to see him in the field you wouldn't know he's that old. He was an oops and we picked up our oops almost twelve years ago ran him through all the hunt test crap wife got his senior title got tired of the hunt test scene. Best 200 we ever spent!!! Now my pro bred black with all the cerf OFA certs in his back ground developed elbow problems at around 8 1/2. Both dogs have been run HARD every year so all things being equal in care and activity level the chocholate has way better health. My 

Do you know what the OFA's are and what they look for? You can't have "OFA's in the Background" if a breeder told you that, they really pulled one over your eyes. OFA score is unique to every dog as your fingerprint. OFA does not "increase chances". OFA can't even be done on a dog until they are two. OFA is a YES/NO anwswer. Chessies are inbred as can be. Their entire gene pool is said to have originated from two dogs. Also to note, chessies don't get bred for specific color trait factors. They come in a variety of colors with or without markings which are all perfectly acceptable by long time breed standards. Mix and match. You can't do that with labs. You breed different colored labs without knowing their color factor and you can make some serious messes.

I'm part ginger so I can talk smack according to the video above...

What I want to know is why would you buy a dog from someone who for about the price of ONE PUPPY (at $350) won't even go do the most basic tests which will increase your chances of the dog being healthy for a long time? Why?

The answer is that most folks don't want to know that they SHOULD NOT BE BREEDING THEIR DOGS!

[cem3434]

Is there some type of study that supports this or is this just a theory of yours?

  ...      

This is a legitimate question and I dont think that you or Happy can produce any document that supports your arguement.  Until you do, its your theory and/or opinion. 

I understand that the chocolates came from a recessive gene, but that doesnt mean that chocolates are more prone to health issues.  That is like saying that both of your parents had perfect eye sight, but you ended up needing glasses so all of your kids now have the same recessive gene. 

All I am asking for is some evidence because I have never seen or heard anything supporting Happy's statement from earlier.  I know Happy is very knowledgable about dogs, so I am asking for him to educate all of us. 

[Stilly bay]

Is there some type of study that supports this or is this just a theory of yours?

  ...      

This is a legitimate question and I dont think that you or Happy can produce any document that supports your arguement.  Until you do, its your theory and/or opinion. 

I understand that the chocolates came from a recessive gene, but that doesnt mean that chocolates are more prone to health issues.  That is like saying that both of your parents had perfect eye sight, but you ended up needing glasses so all of your kids now have the same recessive gene. 

All I am asking for is some evidence because I have never seen or heard anything supporting Happy's statement from earlier.  I know Happy is very knowledgable about dogs, so I am asking for him to educate all of us. 

 not trying to be rude but just do a google search and you will find a wealth of information about it. its pretty much common knowledge at least in lab circles, and at the very least its no secret.

[cem3434]

Well it must not be very common because I checked out Google and I was unable to find anything that support your theory. Everything on Google pretty much supports the idea that the color has nothing to do with the overall health of the breed.

I dont like to rely on Google for answering all of lifes questions, that why I was asking some of you guys that are very knowlegdable.  Can you not provide all of us with something to support your theory? 

[JBar]

Stilly -you're absolutely right we got very lucky with our first dog and I am not recommending to anyone to buy from a backyard breeder or puppy mill. My example was just showing that OFA doesn't mean your pro bred dog won't have problems but does increase your chances at healthy dog for years to come.

Happy, no need to get your panties in a wad, I'm just playing with you about the Chessie thing must have hit a nerve. You can have OFA in a dogs background, what I am referring to as background is the parents,grandparents and great grandparents look at a pedigree it will have the dogs OFA# listed next to each dog on your pups pedigree. If that's missing then you are risking it like I did with our first dog.

I may not convey what I'm saying very well (and still may not be)but I do know my way around a bit.

 As you said the OFA can be done and certified only after a dog is two and the dog has that certification # for life but that doesn't mean the dog won't have hip or elbow problems when it's older as there are too many variables that can cause problems. And to put it simple sh*t wears out with age, hell come talk to me when you turn 40 or 50 we'll see how your body is holding up. To someone who doesn't know, you were making it sound like if you have all these things you'll never have a problem. If Highside is looking for a pup all he has to look at is the "background" of the litter because as you said dogs can't get an OFA# until they're two and until then there are NO guarantees the dog won't have problems.

[JBar]

Oh and Highside do your research and educate yourself and you'll make the right decision when the time comes. Visit multiple breeders look at the pups and leave the kids at home the first time you go look at a litter. Too many times the wrong pup was bought on impulse because the kids think "they're so cute" please daddy please!! Once you decide on a breeder and a litter bring the kids back to see them. Don't get caught up on color either you may look at a litter and the cute fuzzy little black or yellow one may just be for you.

[highside74]

I was starting to feel like I got  Hey, has anyone seen my wallet?

[Caseyd]

I love dog guys 

[Happy Gilmore]

Oh and Highside do your research and educate yourself and you'll make the right decision when the time comes. Visit multiple breeders look at the pups and leave the kids at home the first time you go look at a litter. Too many times the wrong pup was bought on impulse because the kids think "they're so cute" please daddy please!! Once you decide on a breeder and a litter bring the kids back to see them. Don't get caught up on color either you may look at a litter and the cute fuzzy little black or yellow one may just be for you.

This is a good place to research the quarterly reports. With that being said; these are dogs who are being tested which are likely owned by folks who are responsible breeders. The folks who know pedigrees, take the time to know which combinations produce bad stuff and should be avoided spend many hours going through these reports. They follow up on their own breedings results and track their histories. Many hours go in just wading through reports. These stats are real. This is one reason why one might choose to pay a little more money for someone who is really trying hard to produce good blood versus someone who doesn't care at all and just wants their kids to see a dog have puppies and put some green in their back pocket for letting their friends dog get some action with their bitch in the backyard.

http://www.offa.org/reports.html?quarter=web15-Oct-12up.zip&breed=LR&btnSelect=Select

No nerves struck on the chessies- It was in good jest- There are statistics and lots of them available. Not Google stuff. Right off the OFA website. DNA testing, Elbows, Hips, eyes, CNM, EIC..... What do you want for "real" stats? they are all right here. This is where conclusions come from, real science. Unbiased information.

[Happy Gilmore]

And to be helpful; 

There is a possibility that a 11 month old Chessie might need a home. I got a call from someones' friend of a friend of a friend. Supposed to be a very nice dog but, owner is young and has to move to an apartment type of reason?

I'll post up when I hear something. I know of a black lab with a little training who may be available for a very reasonable price...maybe in your range?

[Special T]

Happy yourve turned intoqute the doggy match maker...And all your great advice..

Dear Happy,
I have a wonderful Chessapeake bay retriever that loves to hunt. He listened fairly well to me before training and even better now that he has been trained. He was the runt of the litter and the last one to leave the mom. He has always had food agression issues and my wife thew down the ultimatum that he get clipped or else, so i folded. I have done every thing possible to try and break him from being over protective of his food. what advice can you give me?
Sincerly
Fat and happy

 
 

[Happy Gilmore]

Happy yourve turned intoqute the doggy match maker...And all your great advice..

Dear Happy,
I have a wonderful Chessapeake bay retriever that loves to hunt. He listened fairly well to me before training and even better now that he has been trained. He was the runt of the litter and the last one to leave the mom. He has always had food agression issues and my wife thew down the ultimatum that he get clipped or else, so i folded. I have done every thing possible to try and break him from being over protective of his food. what advice can you give me?
Sincerly
Fat and happy

 

Feed him alone in the garage inside a kennel and watch your fingers. 

[Caseyd]

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,109230.msg0/topicseen.html#new

[cem3434]

No nerves struck on the chessies- It was in good jest- There are statistics and lots of them available. Not Google stuff. Right off the OFA website. DNA testing, Elbows, Hips, eyes, CNM, EIC..... What do you want for "real" stats? they are all right here. This is where conclusions come from, real science. Unbiased information.

I still dont see anything on the OFA website supporting your ignorant and completely bias comments about chocolate labs.  There is no "real science" backing your statement that chocolates are more likely to have health issues because of their color.  I have spoke to several other Labrador breeders and veterinarians and I have failed to find one person who supports your theory. 

[Happy Gilmore]

You'd have to be asking pedigree specific questions. I don't know many vets who know a thing about pedigrees. They don't have time for it. They focus on medicine.

There are two good examples right now. One is a popular Field Trial Chocolate and the other is a popular show(English Style) Chocolate. They both became very popular for breeding because of their successs in their said venues. (Admittedly, this happens all the time with the other colors) What brings it to the top of the pile with Chocolates is the smaller numbers. (similar with Chessies issues) When there are 100,000 labs born a year and 1,000 are chocolate, lets say 250 have a common sire due to popularity, the statistics stop working in your favor.

I personally have a friend with a dog who's broken down early from the field trial line and have a different friend who's dog died young from the show line. With the two, neither are a "one time" occurance. People across the nation are having the same problems. With that being said, I know you're thinking well, that's just "two" pedigree's. Well, true but, two very popular pedigrees in their respective venues. Now, folks are steering away from those two "MAJOR" pedigree's. Major meaning, folks who know and study pedigrees(not your local vets or backyard breeders) won't touch a Chocolate from specific lines.

Brings me to why I posted the OFA results site. There are breeders who print those quarterly reports off and highlight and flag health results of dogs related to their own dogs. They study the health test results of other breedings and compare it to how it may match up with their own dog. They do the same for dogs of interest who they might consider breeding or bringing into their own pedigree. Very few breeders do this and even fewer vets take the time to get to know the pedigrees deeply and what health concerns come along with each potential line.

For a field trialer, the pedigree might have perfect health clearances but, an inherited disposition to have bad line manners/noise. People who "know" and study pedigrees walk away from a dog which might be known to produce specific traits. Think of people knowledgable in dog pedigrees as being like guys who are excellent car mechanics and guru's. They'll tell you why a '70 Mustang with the same HP as a '69 Camaro will do better in a 0-60 but, can't out run it in the 1/4 mile. Go to the Dealership and get the trained Ford Certified Mechanic and he'll tell you that your '70 Mustang is running properly. I don't know why you can't out run a '69 Camaro in the 1/4 mile but, you Mustang sure is running good.

[RC3]

I am sure they weren't trying to jack your thread, rather trying to help you not make a mistake.  There is a world of difference between dog breeders out there and for most people its just about making a couple bucks.  I don't even him personally just read his posts on here the last few years, and even being an informed dog person myself wouldn't question anything Happy has to say about dogs.  Just listen to his advice and you might learn something.

[highside74]

Well, here is my "not so chocolate lab" Luke. Thanks to jbar for finding this litter for me. His parents are to awesome to get hung up on color. His dad is Topper from kingsland labs. He was master hunter certified at 2 years old. His mom is a perfect lady hunting machine that also comes from a long line of great history. Thanks everyone for the help.

[highside74]

Here he is.

[ORCA_SIX]

Great looking pup. Glad you found one you could afford and liked.

[Curly]

Congrats on the new addition to the family.........