Dear WDFW....

[billjr64]

 More opportunity, not less, IMO hunters will never harvest the last blacktail{not even close}. Spraying clearcuts pre planting definately limits ungulate populations. With all the gates I do not believe poaching is a major factor in most areas. Anyone who has hunted elk for the past decade has seen what the three point min has done for the numbers of bigger bulls, it would be interesting to see what branched antler only deer hunting would bring{no three point min, there`s some bruiser forks taken in the areas I hunt}. Good ideas here and excellent thread JPhelps.

[Griiz]

I was thinking the same thing Jason, but only make it 3 point or better.  Bring back logging on National Forest Land and bring back hound hunting = deer and elk for everyone.  I know wishfull thinking...

It would be a bad idea to have 3pt. min. for blacktails. Too many only have genes for 2pt. and they would grow big and spread their genes and we would have even more large 2pts.

[JPhelps]

How about a two point min. How about all these other options,besides less hunting opportunities? I can't believe someone that spends so much time in the woods would want take that away from another hunter.

It is more complicated than that.  I don't WANT to take time away, but on the same hand WE (all hunters) can't continue to allow the deer numbers to decline. 

[JPhelps]

Someones getting yelled at besides me lol.

It's alright I have broad shoulders.  I don't get offended easy and if the end result from this thread is a better idea for management I will take as much heat as necessary.  After all we are all on the same team.

Who am I kidding WDFW won't listen unless the almighty $ is included and more importantly increased.

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

If you want population numbers to increase stop killing does.

How does the game department manage populations? They increase antlerless harvest. Just look at the st helens elk herd.

[JPhelps]

If you want population numbers to increase stop killing does.

I don't 

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

I was just adding to your Dear WDFW... we want the deer population to increase... Please stop killing does.

[fish vacuum]

WDFW isn't afraid to take away late seasons. The late buck season has been permit only for years now in most of Whatcom, Skagit, Snohomish, and King counties.
Like fishing, hunting pressure is getting more concentrated as more areas get closed. Gates can be a benefit for people willing and able hunt behind them, but they push a lot of pressure to other places still open to vehicles.
I think the spraying of clearcuts is a good point too.
My feeling is that hunters will have to choose east or west for their deer tags before long. That would take out a large chunk of guys chasing blacktails after they get skunked during the muley season.

[elkh8me]

i think that is a GREAT IDEA right after they move archery elk season to january 1st-15th

[bigcountry]

This thread has me a bit confused.  Late buck is the only time I have a decent chance at killing a blacktail buck.  (tag soup this year)  And I dont see a problem shooting a nice 2 point BT    Some make it sound like the bucks are just out standing in a clearcut tied to a tree with a rope waiting to be shot.  Not been my experience and if its been yours, please let me know where you are hunting   
I think the predators have taken more of a toll on numbers than hunters by far!  Id like to see what happens if baiting and hound hunting were brought back.  I just dont see hunters killing the young bucks as a longterm detriment to the populations or number of big bucks.  Many other states purposely do not have a minimum point rule and in turn have a better population of mature bucks, do some research, Wyoming would be an example. 
And I have seen numerous trophy blacktail bucks in the summertime and come season, even late buck, I spend days hunting the same area and those same bucks are rarely ever seen.
I wouldnt worry about low BT deer populations for the future generations to hunt, I'd worry about the anti-hunting crowd and the fact that we will not be able to head into the woods to hunt   

[JPhelps]

I agree it is every rifle tag holders best chance at tagging a buck (the last few days of the general season are pretty good).

I've hunted Montana, Wyoming and Colorado for deer and I don't know if the argument is valid.  The deer populations are higher and the hunters seem to manage themselves by passing on the young bucks.

We all agree that the predators are having an effect.  Yet the season dates and lengths haven't changed.  I don't know how the equation could stay balanced without reintroducing bait/hounds or reducing harvest?   I am definitely on the side of predator management, but if we don't have the tools necessary to effectively control them don't we have the responsibility.... To try and make things better (or at least maintain)?

[deaner]

if were making suggestions to wdfw that they arent going to listen to, i have an idea to help out our deer herds too that doesnt even involve reducing our hunting opportunities.  hell it increases them.  hound hunting and bear baiting.  simple.  less cougars and bears = more deer

[rose673]

I agee that something has to be done, but not sure its taking away late buck.  I agree that there are not alot of mature bucks, but you can also say there are not alot of mature bulls either.... I spent all of August and September in Willapa Hills unit and I only saw 6 mature bulls the entire time, you percentage that out with the 30 some rag bulls that are on film, and all the hundreds of cows, then you can make an argument to shorten elk seasons as well.  By the way one of those mature bulls took a dirt nap    Depends on how you define mature I guess... Anyways, spent alot of time in Willapa Hills scouting for my tag, the funny thing was is I ran into 5 or 6 bow hunters that said this year they were seeing more deer than they had seen in years in the unit.  I was probably averaging 12 to 15 in september as well.  Went back in rifle season to the same area and seen 1 deer in two days.  They had to go somewhere, I hear your fustratoin, believe me, but they start taking away predators, poaching and not hunting these animals from september to December, then I will give up the 4 days I get excited for. 

[TikkaT3-270Shortmag]

Anyone know how many cougars were harvested in Willapa hills last year?

[Wildsau]

The deer population has been a concern of mine, since I took my first Hunter Safety Course, some 45 years ago.  The WDFW Rep. who taught the biology part of the course, told us a "healthy" buck could, "seccussfully", service as many as 14 does.  That being said, there are far more bucks taking "Dirt Naps" than does.  A doe that is not serviced will turn baren and, when the winter is a wee bit hard and/or food gets scarce, the bigger baren doe will push the smaller, weaker, heavey doe away from the food she, so desperately, needs for her and her un-born fawns to survive the winter.  As a result, the heavey doe, with her two/three fawns, dies, reducing the population by, now three.

What needs to be changed, is NOT the seasons, but the "Buck Law".  The laws should be changed to read "one deer per tag", and a hunter can only purchase, like bear, a total of two tags.  The seasons are not the problem, it is that damn "Buck Law".

I do agree there should be baiting allowed for bear and hounds for cats and coyotes to better manage the preditor population, thus helping the BT population.  Reduce the number of preditors and increase the number of BT/Elk. 

Reducing the seasons will only force MORE hunters to go to other states and spend their money there, rather than at home.  Most hunters, I know, are looking to put meat in the freezer.  If a large buck, or a buck with badly deformed horns, crosses their path, chances are he will take a "Dirt Nap".  By the same token, if any deer crosses most hunters' path, it is "Dirt Nap"time.  It is far more challenging to drop a doe than a buck, becasue she is ALWAYS on alert.  And last time I checked, horns make terrible soup.