The first results of Sauk Mountain Incident

[shanevg]

Yesterday I went hunting up in Heather Meadows area and was surprised to find signs posted at the trail heads saying Heather Meadows Hunt Closure Area.  There was a satellite image with a handdrawn red line marking off a huge chunk of land including most of the Avalanche Gorge goat unit.  To say the least, I was frustrated!

So to start out, I'll give a little history on this situation.  In July I spent about a week researching as many avenues as I could think of to figure out if there were any hunting restrictions at Heather Meadows (Mount Baker Ski Area) in Whatcom county.  There was nothing in the Hunting Pamphlets and nothing in any of the federal, state, or county ordinances.  I did find one thing that said in Mount Baker-Snoqualmie National Forest it is illegal to discharge a firearm in any recreation areas.  Well Heather Meadows is not officially a recreation area so we didn't have to worry about that. 

So then, I called the Glacer Forst Service Station and talked to a gal there.  I said, "Are there any restrictions on hunting at Heather Meadows?"  Of course I got a classic anti-hunting answer "Well I don't know but I'm sure there are!"  (BTW, this is why I NEVER stop at the Forest Service Stations or talk to Forest Rangers, in all my experience, every single one of them has been anti-hunting.)  I politely inquired if there would be anyone there who would know what the actual rules are and she told me to call the head office for Mount Baker-Snoqualmie NF in Sedro Wooley.

To make a long story short, I got essentially the same answer from everyone at Sedro Wooley (a paniced "I'm sure your not allowed to but I just don't know response) and eventually got transferred to the head of Forest Service Enforcement in Whatcom/Skagit county.  I can't remember his name but, after leaving messages three times, he finally called me back.  He told me that as far as he knew (yet again) there were no restrictions and he had seen hunters there many times and had no reason to write them tickets because there were no regulations against that.  He informed me if he was made aware of any restrictions he would give me a call and just be sure not to shoot across trails or from roads or right next to the visitor center and such.  (No crap!)

So when I went up to go hunting yesterday, I hiked in in the dark and didn't see the hunt closure signs.  While on the trail had a Mountain Steward (basically a retired guy volunteering for FS) come up to me and (to his credit) quite respectfully show me the map and inform me that he wasn't sure if I was aware of this but you aren't supposed to be hunting here.  I explained to him that I had made a lot of calls and everyone said it was OK, and he said he wasn't sure when the rule was enacted but it was the rule now and I should make sure before I shot anything.  Again, I was extremely frustrated!

Now the local paper (The Bellingham Herald) runs stories on hunting and fishing quite regularly.  Since bear season opened there has probably been 10-15 "hunt report" articles.  But never has there been anything about a new hunting closure.  I know for a fact that this closure wasn't in effect before season, and the signs were not there earlier this summer.  So this is obviously a knee jerk response to the Sauk Mountain incident.  The map is not a map at all, but simply a satellite image with a hand drawn red line with very undefined boundaries (other than the fact that it runs all the way to Coleman Pinnacle which is most of the Avalanche Gorge goat unit.)  I also went online when I got home and searched the FS website, the WDFW website, and googled the Heather Meadows Hunt Closure and found no results.

So my question is, does FS have the right to do this?  I thought huntingw as regulated by the state (WDFW) and not the Feds.  At most, I thought FS could make a firearm restriction, not a full blown hunting restriction.  And doesn't something like this need to be made public before if is enacted.  I mean how in the world are we as hunters even supposed to know about it, or make our voices heard?  To top it all off, the map is very poorly defined, it's not even on a topographic map, and it's very confusing what is and is not included in the hunt closure area.  It seems to me that this is just a knee jerk response (and probably not even completely legitimate) to the Sauk Mountain incident. 

We as hunters definitely need to do something to stop this.  It is not fair for FS to close off almost an entire goat unit.  It is not fair for them to close off hunting.  Maybe we do need to make some compromises in areas such as this that are so heavily populated by hikers, but let's do that, let's compromise.  Don't just close everything down without even informing us that it is going to happen!  Who can we contact about this?  Who should we be calling to make our voices heard and ensure at the very minimum that these areas are open to archery hunting if they are able to pull off the firearm restrictions?   

[Ridgerunner]

I call BS, keep hunting there.

[Bearhunter]

I would bet that this is some falsified document that some tree hugging liberal hippy, made up and posted around.  When I lived in fall city I had a great spot for bear hunting.  Plum creek timber owned it.  At the gate a sign eventually got posted that said no shooting or firearms and in small print it said except per valid hunting season's.  Which was totally cool.  It didnt take a week and the small print was covered in black paint making it look like no hunting at all but infact you could per valid seasons.  Someone taped the sign off and painted over the print, so we wouldnt hunt up there.  Probably one of the couple of hikers that would walk the logging road.  Heather meadows is probably a similiar situations.  If not we definetly as hunters need to unite together and lobby against these change, what bunch on BS....

[WildlifeAssassin]

Contact WDFW if they say it is open go for it.

[smdave]

I hate to see things like that. These people just forget that not to many hikers pump millions of dollars into the economy, and wildlife conservation. Close it all down and they will be mad that thier taxes will be raised to pay for the trails they hike on.

Dave

[DOUBLELUNG]

Hi Shane, man, what a hassle.  I recommend a call to the District Ranger, to find out if it's even legit.  Very easy to create, post and hand out official-looking maps ... w/o the authority to do so.  This goes counter to the recent Executive Order to BLM and USFS to look for opportunity to INCREASE hunting opportunities on public lands.

If the cite the Sauk Mt. incident, politely inquire if they will then, for the sake of consistency, close every other recreational use in any area where there has been a comparable death rate (public safety, dont'cha know!).  A Seattle climber just fell to his death off goat wall on the Okanogan NF, Methow RD, I would expect as a matter of consistent application they will close off all climbing areas where deaths have occurred.  Odd that they die every year on Mt. Rainier and other peaks, drown on the Wenatchee, Methow and other rivers, and die in motor vehicle accidents ... for that matter, these same ski areas have fatalities on a REGULAR basis - better close down Snoqualmie, Mt. Baker, White Pass (nix that just-approved expansion, right?!), Mission Ridge.

I'm reasonably sure they can't legally do this.  You are correct that they can regulate discharge of firearms, but there is federal case law out the Wazoo establishing the state's authority to regulate hunting of resident wildlife - which includes all big game.

Good luck!

[shanevg]

I would bet that this is some falsified document that some tree hugging liberal hippy, made up and posted around.  When I lived in fall city I had a great spot for bear hunting.  Plum creek timber owned it.  At the gate a sign eventually got posted that said no shooting or firearms and in small print it said except per valid hunting season's.  Which was totally cool.  It didnt take a week and the small print was covered in black paint making it look like no hunting at all but infact you could per valid seasons.  Someone taped the sign off and painted over the print, so we wouldnt hunt up there.  Probably one of the couple of hikers that would walk the logging road.  Heather meadows is probably a similiar situations.  If not we definetly as hunters need to unite together and lobby against these change, what bunch on BS....

I don't think it's just some tree huggers posting signs.  Otherwise the Mountain Steward (FS volunteer dude) would not have the map with all his other paper work from the Forest Service station.  I do not believe this is a legitimate way of doing this but I don't think it's just some random people posting the signs either.  Very frustrating to say the least!

[12Gauge]

Hmm, The closure sure sounds fishy,

[robb92]

Cal the local game office or the head office and ask the question, I would be the local game office would know right or wrong before the head office. If they say it is open to hunt then take the sign down when you head back in.

[Ray]

Sounds like a real closure to me. No surprise to me. On that note I heard on the news that the kid who shot the lady plead not guilty to manslaughter and that the max penalty was 9 mos which he was facing. Sounds like when it comes to that law the kid will be getting off light. I bet he learned his lesson about target identification but what a price to pay.

[grade-creek-rd]

I would do a few things...one, the next time someone shows you a map, ask for a copy or where you can get a copy...if it is a true map and closure and the person is a true volunteer, this would be easy for them to answer...next I would dress conservative (OK, maybe liberal) and go into the forest ranger district office and ask for the same map...even play like you want one to show those damn animal murders...then I would follow up with a call to the local game warden and ask for a map...if nobody who is "official" can give you a map, then it's bogus, especially if they all say "what the heck are you talking about". The ranger station would at least have one posted at the district office for you to look at and ask about if it is true...don't try and use the phone, nobody calls back and you don't know who you are really talking too. Go in person. That way if you go there and the ranger (or representative) says there is no such thing, you can get their name and show you know what you are talking about. If it is true, then you will find out real quick and can ask the ranger themself about the "reason" for the changes.

G-C-R

PS. For what it's worth I fought fire for the USFS back in 95...if an area was closed for any reason, they had maps and the reason why...it makes no sense to close an area and not tell anybody!

[MacMan99]

As long as it takes the gov't to do ANYTHING (like...um...get me my damn stimulus check ), I can't imagine the FS would close soemthing that quickly.  Also, FSlands are supposed to be for everyone - to include hunters - so it seems fishy to me that there would be no public comment period and all the usual stuff that goes on if the FS was really behind this.

I DO believe that the Feds can do whatever they want on federal land, regardless of what the state says (someone once told me that that the state could be MORE restrictive, bitu not less- if that makes sense) but again, it sounds like someone posting something without the authority to do so.

I'd call the ranger back - just get his voicemail and write his name down.  Then continue to hunt.  If anyone gives you any crap, say "ranger so-and-so told me it was OK.."

[Timberlineduke]

One real important issue when somebody approaches you in the woods with such information....is too get their name and the name of their organization, phone numbers and any addresses to boot.......then when you check it out and if it turns up boogus.....you can turn them in......because believe it or not.....it is illegal to do what he is doing if it isn't legit......plus you can expose them for what they are........ Besides the fact....once you start asking them to idenifiy themselves....you can quickly read if it's a scam or legit. If it's legit.....you may want to send them a thank-you card for saving you a ticket.

[shanevg]

So I got an update on this whole situation.  According to the Forest Service these signs should not be posted yet.  They claim that this whole thing has been in the works for over a year now :cough:bulls*&t:cough:.  They also said that it is not supposed to be a hunting restriction but a firearm discharge restriction.  They said that someone posted it when it should not have been posted and they are still in the process of putting everything through.  THey will probably need to make a committee of some sort about setting the final rules, so we're going to try to get some hunters onto that comittee.  They said it is not for every trailhead, just for the Heather Meadows area.  So sounds like us Whatcom County hunters have our work cut out for us.  Anyone know who we should be calling to make our voices heard? 

[yelp]

I would go over the local USFS districts heads on this....

Contacts for the USDA Forest Service - Pacific Northwest Region


Jose Linares, natural resource Director, 503-808-2955; Fax: 503-808-2469/2973

Water/Fish/Wildlife/Rangelands Asst. Director - Jon Raby, 503-808-2922--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Law Enforcement and Investigations
Special Agent in Charge - Thomas J. Lyons, 360-891-5270 10600 NE 51st. Circle, Vancouver, WA 98682; Fax: 360-891-5275