Some Blues Mulies (Another pic added)

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

Here's some more photos of those in my original post.  In my opinion, WDFW needs to close hunting on all mulies for 2 to 3 years in the Dayton and Tucannon units (and probably Marengo) in order to build the herds.  Then, open it to 3 or 4 pt. or larger only for a couple of years to see how it goes. 

The mulies just don't have the characteristics of the whitetails for the herds to stay strong.  Mainly, their choice of rocky and open terrain instead of the timber and thick brush preferred by the whitetails.

I be all for that. There are plenty of whitetails to chase around. I loved hearing the stories from dad and granddad about the mulie hunting in the blues. I seems the only place you see them anymore is down low, I'd really love to see them return up higher again and see some more roaming the hills.

[Roperfive88]

Here's some more photos of those in my original post.  In my opinion, WDFW needs to close hunting on all mulies for 2 to 3 years in the Dayton and Tucannon units (and probably Marengo) in order to build the herds.  Then, open it to 3 or 4 pt. or larger only for a couple of years to see how it goes. 

The mulies just don't have the characteristics of the whitetails for the herds to stay strong.  Mainly, their choice of rocky and open terrain instead of the timber and thick brush preferred by the whitetails.

I be all for that. There are plenty of whitetails to chase around. I loved hearing the stories from dad and granddad about the mulie hunting in the blues. I seems the only place you see them anymore is down low, I'd really love to see them return up higher again and see some more roaming the hills.

To add to that they need to give some 2pt only tags even if it is only for master hunters. Just to take out some of the huge 2pts that are ruining the gene pools in these herds. The three point rule is protecting them. In the few pictures I only see one that might be a 5X5. The reason that I say Master hunters is that I don"t want the meat hunter just go shoot a little 2 pt. They have a chance to grow. The big ones are what they are going to be. Every year during the rut all I see is these big two points with the does 

[skywalker253]

Here's some more photos of those in my original post.  In my opinion, WDFW needs to close hunting on all mulies for 2 to 3 years in the Dayton and Tucannon units (and probably Marengo) in order to build the herds.  Then, open it to 3 or 4 pt. or larger only for a couple of years to see how it goes. 

The mulies just don't have the characteristics of the whitetails for the herds to stay strong.  Mainly, their choice of rocky and open terrain instead of the timber and thick brush preferred by the whitetails.

I be all for that. There are plenty of whitetails to chase around. I loved hearing the stories from dad and granddad about the mulie hunting in the blues. I seems the only place you see them anymore is down low, I'd really love to see them return up higher again and see some more roaming the hills.

To add to that they need to give some 2pt only tags even if it is only for master hunters. Just to take out some of the huge 2pts that are ruining the gene pools in these herds. The three point rule is protecting them. In the few pictures I only see one that might be a 5X5. The reason that I say Master hunters is that I don"t want the meat hunter just go shoot a little 2 pt. They have a chance to grow. The big ones are what they are going to be. Every year during the rut all I see is these big two points with the does 

Just curious; has it been scientifically proven that when the big 2 point mates with a doe, that his offspring will also be nothing larger then a 2 point?
Have any of you ever heard if the game department goes in and shoots these bucks off to try and better the overall production of the area?

There are plenty of careless hunters shooting off big 2 points every season. They see the big rack and assume it is legal. See it every year....

[fly4fish]

If not for these big 2x2s, then there might not be a mature buck to do the breading.  Most mule deer bucks get killed at 2 years old.

[Roperfive88]

From when I started hunting to now. I have seen more and more big 2pts and barely legal mature Bucks. I don't know the research but when people manage deer herds they take out the bucks that don't meet their standards and it those places end up with more bigger bucks. In the last couple of years we took out some of those bucks that luckily had a third point. Two of those being 20 plus inch 2 by 3's. This year I saw Only a couple large 2 pts and one massive 2x3 that we never got a chance at. The rest were smaller 3 and 4 pts and 6 mature 4 and 5pt bucks. So it seems to me that there is a difference when the deer with good genes are doing more of the breeding.

[borntoslay]

I've hunted in and around 163 for like 12 years.  We can find a big mulie if we hike way back in, but nowhere near what it was like in 2000-2003ish. I remember coming up on bachelor groups of 6 or 7 bucks in 2002 and 3 of which were right around 25 wide. Just not as many running around nowadays. My personal opinion is too many 3pt or better get shot which leaves too much 2pt gene pool. The mulies just aren't as elusive or smart as the whitetails in that area and its not like they have tons of cover, in the foothills at least. Lots of roads crisscrossen farm country, lots of hunters on the public ground. I just dont think the ole mulies stand much of a chance. Poor guys 

[borntoslay]

You guys all have good points though, I think it would be cool to see it go to bow or muzzleloader only. Idk. Something needs to change, thats for sure

[Stizz]

Just another example of how natural selection comes into play with these types of regs. After years of a 3 point min you're naturally going to have the highest survival rates on the bucks that are off limits to shoot...therefore after awhile the deer that get the most breeding opportunities are the two points, with the highest breeding success on the older bucks that stayed two points....in turn passing on that trait. The deer are just doing what they do best-adapting to survive. I'd like to see some units move to a 4 point min and give out more 2 point only tags and see what happens.

[BLUEBULLS]

I don't think it's so much of a 2 point issue in the lower portions of 162 and unit 163. There are hardly any mature mule deer of any number of points in the open areas. Hunter numbers are huge, the area is open country. The population is stable. It's never going to be a trophy area.
The higher portions have satisfactory numbers of 2,3,4 point etc. The higher portions might not have the numbers they did 30 years ago but in the past 15 years I haven't seen much change. The population in the higher country isn't going to increase much with the elk population the way it is. With fire suppression in neighboring units and the elk, there just isn't much excellent habitat.

Basically, the lower portion of the units are always going to be a place to go hunt and see a lot of deer but basically no big mule deer. It's a great opportunity for those that don't hunt for horns and those that like to keep the kids entertained. Whitetail are a slightly different story, due to the cover that they use, some are able to elude hunters and get some age on them.

[borntoslay]

Well said Bluebulls . It's just shocking to me how smart those older whitetails can get in that area. Dad and I got late tag last fall and were in there for 7 days during the rut. Found an old boy with stickers and sh*t all over bed down in the same patch of crp 2 mornings in a row, Busted us both mornings from 80 yards away and just ran on a dead bolt, hunkered in so deep in that stuff impossible to spot. As far as the mulies, I've only seen 1 TRUE giant. We were driving back down into Dayton one  evening( i think it was 2001) about a mile or two from town we look to our left and 100 yards there he stands. Thought it was a huge piece of brush but then he lifted his head. No doubt in my mind he had at least 7 or 8 a side, 28-32 wide, 180-200" range. Thanks to my old man we are fortunate enough to hunt big chunks of private property in these lower gmu's, but even so I can't think of more than 4 or 5 mulies I've seen since that would even go 130. It's weird too because if you've watched carefully over the years, alot of the natural country down low has seemed to change quite a bit. In the late 90's to early 00's  I remember there was alot more of this tall brush ( not crp ). This crap was everywhere, some of it tall as a man , 3-6 feet high. Don't know exactly what kind of stuff it was as I was still pretty young. It's all gone now. Idk if it comes and goes in cycles or what but its not like some farmer came and plowed it over, it just cycled through I guess. My dad has told me stories about his friends that pulled a few hogs from the merengo unit in the mid 90's. So I do believe there were trophy mulies at 1 point but, that's when they actually had decent cover and a chance to mature. Moral of the story is we as outdoorsman need to appreciate what we have. Its really amazing how things change. You got us humans doing what we do combined with the climate, predators, disease etc, all stirred up in a pot. Natural and unnatural all whipped up by mother natures fury. We should all be thankful for the great hunting, fishing, etc that we are still able to enjoy because I worry that alot of it will be gone for our future generations. The good old days are right now I believe. I've seen enough drunk arse, littering, disrespectful piles of crap out in the woods for 10 lifetimes(you know who you are). I do believe most people are good, but its time we all collectively join up and weed these guys out.  Have some sack and step up for whats right. ya know?! Knuckle sandwich right to the face, or maybe a left right elbow to the jaw.  We all need to do our part to conserve our beautiful State. Rise up and be free! By the way this ramble I just went on felt wonderful. That is all....

[skywalker253]

Well said Bluebulls . It's just shocking to me how smart those older whitetails can get in that area. Dad and I got late tag last fall and were in there for 7 days during the rut. Found an old boy with stickers and sh*t all over bed down in the same patch of crp 2 mornings in a row, Busted us both mornings from 80 yards away and just ran on a dead bolt, hunkered in so deep in that stuff impossible to spot. As far as the mulies, I've only seen 1 TRUE giant. We were driving back down into Dayton one  evening( i think it was 2001) about a mile or two from town we look to our left and 100 yards there he stands. Thought it was a huge piece of brush but then he lifted his head. No doubt in my mind he had at least 7 or 8 a side, 28-32 wide, 180-200" range. Thanks to my old man we are fortunate enough to hunt big chunks of private property in these lower gmu's, but even so I can't think of more than 4 or 5 mulies I've seen since that would even go 130. It's weird too because if you've watched carefully over the years, alot of the natural country down low has seemed to change quite a bit. In the late 90's to early 00's  I remember there was alot more of this tall brush ( not crp ). This crap was everywhere, some of it tall as a man , 3-6 feet high. Don't know exactly what kind of stuff it was as I was still pretty young. It's all gone now. Idk if it comes and goes in cycles or what but its not like some farmer came and plowed it over, it just cycled through I guess. My dad has told me stories about his friends that pulled a few hogs from the merengo unit in the mid 90's. So I do believe there were trophy mulies at 1 point but, that's when they actually had decent cover and a chance to mature. Moral of the story is we as outdoorsman need to appreciate what we have. Its really amazing how things change. You got us humans doing what we do combined with the climate, predators, disease etc, all stirred up in a pot. Natural and unnatural all whipped up by mother natures fury. We should all be thankful for the great hunting, fishing, etc that we are still able to enjoy because I worry that alot of it will be gone for our future generations. The good old days are right now I believe. I've seen enough drunk arse, littering, disrespectful piles of crap out in the woods for 10 lifetimes(you know who you are). I do believe most people are good, but its time we all collectively join up and weed these guys out.  Have some sack and step up for whats right. ya know?! Knuckle sandwich right to the face, or maybe a left right elbow to the jaw.  We all need to do our part to conserve our beautiful State. Rise up and be free! By the way this ramble I just went on felt wonderful. That is all....

IMO- The land has not changed much in the lower areas. Maybe a few fields, which were purchased or leased by Broughton Land & Cattle Company; now being farmed. I think it comes down to alot of hunters killing the deer off in the open areas, and them not getting a chance to mature. I also think the astronomical amounts of doe permits and youths shooting any buck for years have not helped keep the deer numbers up; thus more bucks given a chance at life. The game department should just make it 4 point or better for 3-5 years to see if things get any better.

[Roperfive88]

Well said Bluebulls . It's just shocking to me how smart those older whitetails can get in that area. Dad and I got late tag last fall and were in there for 7 days during the rut. Found an old boy with stickers and sh*t all over bed down in the same patch of crap 2 mornings in a row, Busted us both mornings from 80 yards away and just ran on a dead bolt, hunkered in so deep in that stuff impossible to spot. As far as the mu lies, I've only seen 1 TRUE giant. We were driving back down into Dayton one  evening( i think it was 2001) about a mile or two from town we look to our left and 100 yards there he stands. Thought it was a huge piece of brush but then he lifted his head. No doubt in my mind he had at least 7 or 8 a side, 28-32 wide, 180-200" range. Thanks to my old man we are fortunate enough to hunt big chunks of private property in these lower gum's, but even so I can't think of more than 4 or 5 mu lies I've seen since that would even go 130. It's weird too because if you've watched carefully over the years, alto of the natural country down low has seemed to change quite a bit. In the late 90's to early 00's  I remember there was alto more of this tall brush ( not crap ). This crap was everywhere, some of it tall as a man , 3-6 feet high. Don't know exactly what kind of stuff it was as I was still pretty young. It's all gone now. ID if it comes and goes in cycles or what but its not like some farmer came and plowed it over, it just cycled through I guess. My dad has told me stories about his friends that pulled a few hogs from the Merino unit in the mid 90's. So I do believe there were trophy mu lies at 1 point but, that's when they actually had decent cover and a chance to mature. Moral of the story is we as outdoorsman need to appreciate what we have. Its really amazing how things change. You got us humans doing what we do combined with the climate, predators, disease etc, all stirred up in a pot. Natural and unnatural all whipped up by mother natures fury. We should all be thankful for the great hunting, fishing, etc that we are still able to enjoy because I worry that alto of it will be gone for our future generations. The good old days are right now I believe. I've seen enough drunk arse, littering, disrespectful piles of crap out in the woods for 10 lifetimes(you know who you are). I do believe most people are good, but its time we all collectively join up and weed these guys out.  Have some sack and step up for whats right. ya know?! Knuckle sandwich right to the face, or maybe a left right elbow to the jaw.  We all need to do our part to conserve our beautiful State. Rise up and be free! By the way this ramble I just went on felt wonderful. That is all....

IMO- The land has not changed much in the lower areas. Maybe a few fields, which were purchased or leased by Bro ughton Land & Cattle Company; now being farmed. I think it comes down to alto of hunters killing the deer off in the open areas, and them not getting a chance to mature. I also think the astronomical amounts of doe permits and youths shooting any buck for years have not helped keep the deer numbers up; thus more bucks given a chance at life. The game department should just make it 4 point or better for 3-5 years to see if things get any better.

Youth don't get to shoot any buck. The 3 point minimum still applies to them for as long as I have been hunting. For the 4 pt. minimum I know places in Oregon that have gone to that and all that you see any more is big three points. For alto of people it is just about getting a deer The only way you can really help the population is to stop hunting, which would suck, or set the mule deer hunting on special permit and have quotes on how may bucks are killed each year.

[ing]

Well said Bluebulls . It's just shocking to me how smart those older whitetails can get in that area. Dad and I got late tag last fall and were in there for 7 days during the rut. Found an old boy with stickers and sh*t all over bed down in the same patch of crp 2 mornings in a row, Busted us both mornings from 80 yards away and just ran on a dead bolt, hunkered in so deep in that stuff impossible to spot. As far as the mulies, I've only seen 1 TRUE giant. We were driving back down into Dayton one  evening( i think it was 2001) about a mile or two from town we look to our left and 100 yards there he stands. Thought it was a huge piece of brush but then he lifted his head. No doubt in my mind he had at least 7 or 8 a side, 28-32 wide, 180-200" range. Thanks to my old man we are fortunate enough to hunt big chunks of private property in these lower gmu's, but even so I can't think of more than 4 or 5 mulies I've seen since that would even go 130. It's weird too because if you've watched carefully over the years, alot of the natural country down low has seemed to change quite a bit. In the late 90's to early 00's  I remember there was alot more of this tall brush ( not crp ). This crap was everywhere, some of it tall as a man , 3-6 feet high. Don't know exactly what kind of stuff it was as I was still pretty young. It's all gone now. Idk if it comes and goes in cycles or what but its not like some farmer came and plowed it over, it just cycled through I guess. My dad has told me stories about his friends that pulled a few hogs from the merengo unit in the mid 90's. So I do believe there were trophy mulies at 1 point but, that's when they actually had decent cover and a chance to mature. Moral of the story is we as outdoorsman need to appreciate what we have. Its really amazing how things change. You got us humans doing what we do combined with the climate, predators, disease etc, all stirred up in a pot. Natural and unnatural all whipped up by mother natures fury. We should all be thankful for the great hunting, fishing, etc that we are still able to enjoy because I worry that alot of it will be gone for our future generations. The good old days are right now I believe. I've seen enough drunk arse, littering, disrespectful piles of crap out in the woods for 10 lifetimes(you know who you are). I do believe most people are good, but its time we all collectively join up and weed these guys out.  Have some sack and step up for whats right. ya know?! Knuckle sandwich right to the face, or maybe a left right elbow to the jaw.  We all need to do our part to conserve our beautiful State. Rise up and be free! By the way this ramble I just went on felt wonderful. That is all....

IMO- The land has not changed much in the lower areas. Maybe a few fields, which were purchased or leased by Broughton Land & Cattle Company; now being farmed. I think it comes down to alot of hunters killing the deer off in the open areas, and them not getting a chance to mature. I also think the astronomical amounts of doe permits and youths shooting any buck for years have not helped keep the deer numbers up; thus more bucks given a chance at life. The game department should just make it 4 point or better for 3-5 years to see if things get any better.

If the WDFW changes the point restrictions to 4 point or better they will never change it back.  Look at their history.  Its been 3 piont ever since they changed it and for east side elk its been spike only ever since they changed. Actually it got worse for some spike only GMU's when they changed it to true spike only.

[Roperfive88]

Well said Bluebulls . It's just shocking to me how smart those older whitetails can get in that area. Dad and I got late tag last fall and were in there for 7 days during the rut. Found an old boy with stickers and sh*t all over bed down in the same patch of crp 2 mornings in a row, Busted us both mornings from 80 yards away and just ran on a dead bolt, hunkered in so deep in that stuff impossible to spot. As far as the mulies, I've only seen 1 TRUE giant. We were driving back down into Dayton one  evening( i think it was 2001) about a mile or two from town we look to our left and 100 yards there he stands. Thought it was a huge piece of brush but then he lifted his head. No doubt in my mind he had at least 7 or 8 a side, 28-32 wide, 180-200" range. Thanks to my old man we are fortunate enough to hunt big chunks of private property in these lower gmu's, but even so I can't think of more than 4 or 5 mulies I've seen since that would even go 130. It's weird too because if you've watched carefully over the years, alot of the natural country down low has seemed to change quite a bit. In the late 90's to early 00's  I remember there was alot more of this tall brush ( not crp ). This crap was everywhere, some of it tall as a man , 3-6 feet high. Don't know exactly what kind of stuff it was as I was still pretty young. It's all gone now. Idk if it comes and goes in cycles or what but its not like some farmer came and plowed it over, it just cycled through I guess. My dad has told me stories about his friends that pulled a few hogs from the merengo unit in the mid 90's. So I do believe there were trophy mulies at 1 point but, that's when they actually had decent cover and a chance to mature. Moral of the story is we as outdoorsman need to appreciate what we have. Its really amazing how things change. You got us humans doing what we do combined with the climate, predators, disease etc, all stirred up in a pot. Natural and unnatural all whipped up by mother natures fury. We should all be thankful for the great hunting, fishing, etc that we are still able to enjoy because I worry that alot of it will be gone for our future generations. The good old days are right now I believe. I've seen enough drunk arse, littering, disrespectful piles of crap out in the woods for 10 lifetimes(you know who you are). I do believe most people are good, but its time we all collectively join up and weed these guys out.  Have some sack and step up for whats right. ya know?! Knuckle sandwich right to the face, or maybe a left right elbow to the jaw.  We all need to do our part to conserve our beautiful State. Rise up and be free! By the way this ramble I just went on felt wonderful. That is all....

IMO- The land has not changed much in the lower areas. Maybe a few fields, which were purchased or leased by Broughton Land & Cattle Company; now being farmed. I think it comes down to alot of hunters killing the deer off in the open areas, and them not getting a chance to mature. I also think the astronomical amounts of doe permits and youths shooting any buck for years have not helped keep the deer numbers up; thus more bucks given a chance at life. The game department should just make it 4 point or better for 3-5 years to see if things get any better.

The 4 point minimum targets the mature bucks that we want breeding. I say go to a 3 point only rule for 3 to 5 years. The young deer survive and the old bucks survive to do a good chunk of the breeding.

[skywalker253]

Well said Bluebulls . It's just shocking to me how smart those older whitetails can get in that area. Dad and I got late tag last fall and were in there for 7 days during the rut. Found an old boy with stickers and sh*t all over bed down in the same patch of crap 2 mornings in a row, Busted us both mornings from 80 yards away and just ran on a dead bolt, hunkered in so deep in that stuff impossible to spot. As far as the mu lies, I've only seen 1 TRUE giant. We were driving back down into Dayton one  evening( i think it was 2001) about a mile or two from town we look to our left and 100 yards there he stands. Thought it was a huge piece of brush but then he lifted his head. No doubt in my mind he had at least 7 or 8 a side, 28-32 wide, 180-200" range. Thanks to my old man we are fortunate enough to hunt big chunks of private property in these lower gum's, but even so I can't think of more than 4 or 5 mu lies I've seen since that would even go 130. It's weird too because if you've watched carefully over the years, alto of the natural country down low has seemed to change quite a bit. In the late 90's to early 00's  I remember there was alto more of this tall brush ( not crap ). This crap was everywhere, some of it tall as a man , 3-6 feet high. Don't know exactly what kind of stuff it was as I was still pretty young. It's all gone now. ID if it comes and goes in cycles or what but its not like some farmer came and plowed it over, it just cycled through I guess. My dad has told me stories about his friends that pulled a few hogs from the Merino unit in the mid 90's. So I do believe there were trophy mu lies at 1 point but, that's when they actually had decent cover and a chance to mature. Moral of the story is we as outdoorsman need to appreciate what we have. Its really amazing how things change. You got us humans doing what we do combined with the climate, predators, disease etc, all stirred up in a pot. Natural and unnatural all whipped up by mother natures fury. We should all be thankful for the great hunting, fishing, etc that we are still able to enjoy because I worry that alto of it will be gone for our future generations. The good old days are right now I believe. I've seen enough drunk arse, littering, disrespectful piles of crap out in the woods for 10 lifetimes(you know who you are). I do believe most people are good, but its time we all collectively join up and weed these guys out.  Have some sack and step up for whats right. ya know?! Knuckle sandwich right to the face, or maybe a left right elbow to the jaw.  We all need to do our part to conserve our beautiful State. Rise up and be free! By the way this ramble I just went on felt wonderful. That is all....

IMO- The land has not changed much in the lower areas. Maybe a few fields, which were purchased or leased by Bro ughton Land & Cattle Company; now being farmed. I think it comes down to alto of hunters killing the deer off in the open areas, and them not getting a chance to mature. I also think the astronomical amounts of doe permits and youths shooting any buck for years have not helped keep the deer numbers up; thus more bucks given a chance at life. The game department should just make it 4 point or better for 3-5 years to see if things get any better.

Youth don't get to shoot any buck. The 3 point minimum still applies to them for as long as I have been hunting. For the 4 pt. minimum I know places in Oregon that have gone to that and all that you see any more is big three points. For alto of people it is just about getting a deer The only way you can really help the population is to stop hunting, which would suck, or set the mule deer hunting on special permit and have quotes on how may bucks are killed each year.

I know that youths cannot shoot "Any Buck" anymore. During the late 90's thru mid 2000's they could in Marengo GMU 163. I cannot remember if they could in Dayton GMU 162. They eventually changed it to "Any Whitetail Doe". Then they completely eliminated everything for youths during the general season and forced them to shoot a 3 point or draw a special doe or buck permit. As I posted earlier; I was told by the game department biologist (Pat Fowler/now retired) that the reason they discontinued youths being able to shoot "Any Buck" or "Any Whitetail Doe", was because the parents were doing the shooting and taking advantage of the system. The only general season special considerations that I know of now, are that 65 and older can shoot "Any Whitetail Doe" in GMU 162 during the modern general season. They cannot in GMU 163.

During that time period, we had several youths within our deer camp that shot nice 2 points and Does. They were checked by the game department every year with no issue.