Sage rats and rock chucks

[Dbax129]

Anybody know what these are actually called?  Only heard them by those names.  Wondering if they are listed on the small game list and I just don't know it because I don't know what they are really called. 
also, anybody know about using them for coyote bait or using calls meant to mimic them? Seems like in Eastern Wa that would be quite effective in spring time...

[bobcat]

Rock chucks would be Yellow Bellied Marmots. Not sure about sage rats. Some kind of ground squirrel.

[Chukar]

Yellow Bellied Marmot=Woodchuck on the Eastside. Shootable.
Sage Rats=Variety of ground squirrel species. Some shootable. Some are not however so know your target. If it is not on the list of protected species you should be ok to shoot.
Rodent squeak in areas where these two types of rodents occur could call in a predator. Never heard of "baiting" predators with dead rodents.

[Dbax129]

ok. So sage rats is a common term, and there are lots of different things they could be?  I can't imagine the ones i'm thinking of are protected.  You can't drive down the road without running over one or two, 7 days a week.  anywhere near grandview/sunnyside/prosser anyways, when they are out thick.  small like a rat.  2-3" tail with almost no hair on it, maybe a little tuft on the end sometimes... bellies are white or very light i think.  they eat their own dead, make tons of holes/tunnels, love orchards and vineyards.

Rock chucks are yellow bellied marmots huh?  I'll google that and look at pics.  Can anybody else who hunts them confirm this?  I asked my uncle who has lived there for 40 years and he says they are rock chucks and sage rats.  nothing else.  real helpful huh.

[Special T]

Rock chucks would be Yellow Bellied Marmots.

 

There is a silver Hoary marmot that is protected. As you might imagine they are silvery grey and are in alpine areas.

[Dbax129]

Thank you for confirmation on "rock chucks" being Yellow Bellied Marmots.

On "Sage rats",  I found a page the WDFW has up about grey squirls
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_squirrel/
On this page, the closest looking thing to what I have called sage rats is the California Ground Squirl, which is shootable.  However, my "sage rats" are not California Ground Squirls.  They are just the closest match in appearance when looking at the pictures on the right. 
my "sage rats" are much smaller.  Maybe 5" in length, with 2-3" tails that have almost no hair.  looks like the californians are much much bigger.  The coverage map I think shows teh californians coverage in the yakima valley i think, but again, my "sage rats" are so numerous and much smaller.  If you live next to a hops field, you can shoot 5 of them out your window every time you go to the bathroom or kitchen. 
Anybody else have an idea?  I'll keep looking...

[bobcat]

Have you looked at this?

http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/ground_squirrel/washington_ground_squirrels.pdf

[Chukar]

Speaking strictly of the Eastside...Marmots are shootable. They are scattered over the entire eastside but like rocks and grass.

The "rats" need to be identified first before the plinking begins. Up through Benton-Klick-Yak-Kittitas counties the larger squirrel you find roadside or in patchy woods is the Cal Rock Squirrel or "Beechi" squirrel. They also prefer rocks. Shoot away.

Towards Spokane you can find Columbia Ground and some Richardson Ground Squirrel populations. Both are a good sized target.
Fire away.

The smaller ones...light belly, speckled on the top, big eye ring are Washington State Ground Squirrels. They like grass, sage and orchards and for the last few years are been declining in population and are fully protected. This species is found in Yak-Kittitas-Grant counties fairly easily....one spot that comes to mind is right at the end of the Yakima Canyon Road where you leave the river. First...a Rehab facility on the right has a BIG green lawn and boulders along the road. You can take pictures of the Marmots there as you cannot shoot here but at least you can identify a "RockChuck"
As you continue down the road...orchards on each side have populations of Wash Ground Squirrel. Typically they are sticking out on the edges around drippers and other farm equipment.
Until you go towards the Spokane side...pretty much only Beechi's and Marmots can be found in numbers on public land to shoot at...hope that helped.

[Dbax129]

The smaller ones...light belly, speckled on the top, big eye ring are Washington State Ground Squirrels.

strange, that is exactly describing the California ground squirl, you can see here
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_squirrel/ except its smaller...
Also found this link with a picture
http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=187850

[Austrian Hunter]

I know what you talking about "sage Rats".  Don't know any other name for them, however, I do know they are a pest in the vineyards and costing thousands in damage to the vines. 

[Dbax129]

Just kidding, I've never shot a sage rat in my life.  I think the locals there shoot them a lot, and I'm pretty sure a "sage rat" is a washington ground squirrel after checking out that pdf bobcat posted.  Hmm...  I do love shooting those rock chucks over there though.     I feel like I should call everybody I know over there. Its amazing to me those things are protected.  They litter the roads in april, dead and alive.  The farmers hate them.  They burrow all over their orchards and cow pastures.  They also eat alfalfa fields like crazy!  So do the rock chucks now that I think of it.  Any chance I'm mistaken?  Can anybody who lives between Yakima and Tri-Cities off of HWY 84 confirm this?  Maybe perdition permits available?

[Chukar]

Yeah they are rodents with some matching charateristics but the Rock/Beechi is much bigger and in a diff habitat.

Washington Ground Squirrels (WGS) are diggers...where you find badgers you find these tiny things. Steepe habitat, grassland, sage...where they can dig. Small. Little tail. Chubby. Squeek/whistle when you get close

The confluence and vicinity of the 410 and 12 Highways has a sizeable population of Beechi rodents if you want to get a visual compared to the little Washington Ground Squirrels. Oak trees, rock hillsides, ditches...much bigger tail, ears, body and are mostly silent.

[Austrian Hunter]

Bone has tons of pictures of the sage rats in Yakima, maybe he can educate us??   

[Gringo31]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/endangered/lists/search.php?searchby=StateStatus&search=SC&orderby=AnimalType,%20CommonName

It seems the Townsend Ground Squirrel (what I call a sage rat) is on the concerned list but not protected....unless they are underground. 

[Special T]

I think the price and availabilit of ammo will save qite a few of them this year. 

[Dbax129]

Gringo31 THANK YOU!  You are right, that is the little pest that farmers hate and takes over the world for a few months/year.  Good to know.   

[Jingles]

"The 28 species and subspecies of the genus copose three distinct groups, the common, eastern woodchuck,Marmota momax, the Yellow Footed marmot= Marmota flaviventris and the hoary marmot or rock chuck Marmota caligata.
The woodchuck inhabits most of North America, ranging from the Atlantic west to Okalhoma and  orth from British Columbia to Alaska.
The Yellow footed marmot  inhabits the western United States, British Columbia  and Alaska. The Hoary marmot, or rockchuck ranges the mountains of Western North America and thrives in the Rocky Mountains"
referenced the New Hunters Encyclopedia

[BOWHUNTER45]

Crazy ...good thread though...when I go turkey hunting I see thousands of these sage rats .. but the funny thing about it is when I ask if I can shoot a few the answer is usually NO ...For some reason the farmers just have problems with people shooting in their pastures ...which I understand ...These same farmers will let me kill all the turkeys we can but they protect the sage rat because they have cattle out there ...Back East we had ground hogs which are much bigger ...look just like our rock chucks but another 8 lbs bigger ...Farmers back there hate them because when belling season comes the holes are bad news on machinery ...sometimes flipping a wagon full of Hay onto its side 

[Dbax129]

yeah, cattle farmers don't much care for shooting on their pasture when I've asked.  The apple orchards and vineyards and even corn row farmers like you to shoot them.  some hops farmers too.  Gosh those things thrive in the hops fields.

[actionshooter]

I'm totally confused about the differences and whats shootable and whats not.


 Could someone post up a map of locations of where the farmers will let you shoot. 

[Hyde]

We always called them sand rats, or go-downs.  When I was a teenager growing up in eastern Oregon, if we brought the rancher 10 tails, they would give us one box of 22LR.  Wildcats as I recall.  You could get a brick back then for $7.00. 

[CastleRocker]

I don't know for sure, but the farmers who let us shoot the "Sage Rats" in their fields every year call them the Beldings Ground Squirrel.   What I DO know for sure is, it a really, really good time!

Now if I can just find about 5000 more Winchester Power Point 22 shells, my wife will be able to go this year! 

[actionshooter]

I don't know for sure, but the farmers who let us shoot the "Sage Rats" in their fields every year call them the Beldings Ground Squirrel.   What I DO know for sure is, it a really, really good time!

Now if I can just find about 5000 more Winchester Power Point 22 shells, my wife will be able to go this year! 

I'm going to be waiting for that call also.