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Author Topic: Morgan's point ranch pointing labs  (Read 9497 times)

Offline Stilly bay

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Re: Morgan's point ranch pointing labs
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2013, 02:01:13 PM »
That's building on a hesitation when you use a fishing pole or anything you jerk away from the dog.

It's a big misunderstanding that folks have that when a dog holds still it is pointing. For many dogs without natural point, you simply build on a hesitation. Almost all half way intelligent animals have a hesitation before pouncing on their prey. It's a by-product of stalking. When using a fishing pole with a feather, you keep jerking it away from the dog when it pounces. Dogs aren't stupid. They'll eventually give in and agree they will not get the bird when they jump at it.



no doubt, and the people who use the wing and string just show off their pointer pups ability over and over again aren't doing themselves any favors since all they are accomplishing is teaching a young pup to sight point - using his eyes instead of his nose.


When it comes to pointing labs, (really not putting them down at all and no offense meant in any way) I feel they are more of a novice owner marketing and selling point than perfection of purpose. "Red, Silver" etc, they are fads which don't add any positive attributes to the overall gene pool. They just add more money in the sellers pockets for the purpose of novelty.

that is close to how I have always felt.
 why take a dog that is great at retrieving and flushing and make it into something that it will never excel at... just like it would be a farce to run the a setter or pointer in a retrieving trial, no matter how great that pointing dog is at retrieving it will never outshine the dogs that were bred for that purpose. nothing wrong with that, I just don't understand the view point.

and are these pointing labs natural pointers? are they staunch pointers? I heard that most pointing lab owners only expect small a pause before they go into flush, is this the norm?
are these instincts they are breeding for or training or both? Honestly some tiger mountain dogs look like they may have a little EP blood running through their veins.
"Love the dogs before loving the hunt; love the hunt for the dogs." - Ben O. Williams

“It is easy to forget that in the main we die only seven times more slowly than our dogs.”
― Jim Harrison

Offline Dhoey07

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Re: Morgan's point ranch pointing labs
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2013, 02:43:23 PM »
That's building on a hesitation when you use a fishing pole or anything you jerk away from the dog.

It's a big misunderstanding that folks have that when a dog holds still it is pointing. For many dogs without natural point, you simply build on a hesitation. Almost all half way intelligent animals have a hesitation before pouncing on their prey. It's a by-product of stalking. When using a fishing pole with a feather, you keep jerking it away from the dog when it pounces. Dogs aren't stupid. They'll eventually give in and agree they will not get the bird when they jump at it.

Now, where do you incorporate the reward for holding still? That can come later yet, dog winds bird, holds still as it has been trained since 6 weeks old, bird flushes and either flies away and dog is given a dead bird from the pocket or bird is shot and dog is allowed to retrieve the bird.(on a check cord as pup)

This type of training reinforces an intelligent dogs' natural tendancy of a hesitation. I had a 2 year old Chessie Rescue dog for a while. Never seen a bird before. I put out a pigeon in some grass. Dog, not having a clue what a bird was this closely winded the bird but, couldn't see it. Dog cracked the tail high and froze. The dog was doing what all dogs have in them naturally. It didn't know what was in the grass so it stopped and started using other senses to try and determine what it was holding out of sight.

Genetics. Because the bird was a mystery to the dog, never seen one it had no idea if it what it was smelling could be dangerous. Do you expect a dog to wind a porcupine and just launch into the grass without seeing it, land right on top of it? Nature's genetics give animals some amount of protection. Does this mean they won't challenge a porcupine later? No. They'll will when they see it moving, trying to escape. This brings along "prey drive".

Just about any dog can be taught to point. How much natural point is in any given dog? That is always debatable although, some have more natural hesitation tendency than others  in my opinion. Bert Carlson from here in Fall City was likely the very first man in the US to have documented training a lab to point. He was on a television show in the early 1960's. Many folks make the claim to be the "first" but, few have any real documentation other than their stories.

When it comes to pointing labs, (really not putting them down at all and no offense meant in any way) I feel they are more of a novice owner marketing and selling point than perfection of purpose. "Red, Silver" etc, they are fads which don't add any positive attributes to the overall gene pool. They just add more money in the sellers pockets for the purpose of novelty.

Just trying to help the OP out by suggeting a breeder and posting a pic of my dog the day after i got him.  I fixed my caption for you.

Offline Happy Gilmore

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Re: Morgan's point ranch pointing labs
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2013, 03:35:47 PM »
Check out Snake River Pointing Labs.  Quite a drive for ya, but i would recommend them 100%.  This is boomer at 8 weeks showing good hesitation, while looking at a grouse wing

A bit of a neccesary evil although, keeping the scent high and off the ground isn't a bad idea. You want pup with it's nose to the wind working. I'm not a pointer expert but, the obvious applies to all breeds equally across the board.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checked by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt 1899

Offline Dhoey07

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Re: Morgan's point ranch pointing labs
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2013, 03:44:38 PM »
Check out Snake River Pointing Labs.  Quite a drive for ya, but i would recommend them 100%.  This is boomer at 8 weeks showing good hesitation, while looking at a grouse wing

A bit of a neccesary evil although, keeping the scent high and off the ground isn't a bad idea. You want pup with it's nose to the wind working. I'm not a pointer expert but, the obvious applies to all breeds equally across the board.

The wing on a pole routine I used 2 or 3 times.  Then moved to dead birds and then live birds.  I did that for two reasons, number 1 I wanted to see what he would do and 2, didn't want him to eat the wing.

Offline Birdguy

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Re: Morgan's point ranch pointing labs
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2013, 09:01:08 PM »
Back to the OP and the question. I have owned a Morgans Point lab, I have hunted over a few of them, I have sold birds to several west side owners of pups from them and I have another pup on order at this time. To avoid the banter about pointing labs and their good and bad points if you would like to know more from me please feel free to PM me. I can say from what I have seen they are great dogs. The ones I have hunted with do point. They retrieve like a lab, they act like a lab. I enjoy the fact that they are a family dog that hunts great. My kids will tell you they enjoy the point in the upland field as it gives them that extra time to get ready (though I am not sold that it helps them much  :chuckle:).

 


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