Please Advise

[sakoshooter]

All good info above but one more tidbit of info: Adding weight in front(I would)will also reduce your spine and you're already pushing it with your draw length/draw weight. Switching to a 300 spine shaft when switching to 125gr head should work out great all the way around for you.

[Nice Racks]

So at 408 he wouldn't make legal hunting weight? He needs 420 based on his draw weight. Maybe I missed something.

So maybe that's how it got to be 424   I didn't even look at that column.  That's an easy fix though. Just drop two pound of draw weight and Shazaam - Washington Legal!  Or, if the inserts can be taken out just replace them with 23 grain Beman Vi-Brake inserts.  Goes to show how ridiculous that law really is.

I was more worried about the spine.  If it's a modern bow 330 IBO or more that arrow at 29.5" is pretty dang light in spine.  At 340 IBO/29.5" it gets a little dangerous.

Yea I'm shooting a G5 Primal rated at 332. So since I'm going to purchase some more arrows are the 350 spines ok, or is there a better choice?

[RadSav]

If it were me?  And I didn't want to drop my poundage.   I'd definitely step up to a 300 spine (CE's 450) and go with the 125 grain broadhead or a 21 grain CB insert (Beman/Easton).  Or both!!!  The factory Carbon Express insert is only 11 grains so those usually hit the trash faster than I can get them out of the package.

[Nice Racks]

Thanks everyone

[Nice Racks]

Just curious guys. Is the spine and draw weight chart on the C E boxes not accurate? Reason for asking is according to it a 70lb draw and a 29 inch arrow should have a 350 spine and a 450 isn't even listed. Please educate me.

[RadSav]

Just curious guys. Is the spine and draw weight chart on the C E boxes not accurate? Reason for asking is according to it a 70lb draw and a 29 inch arrow should have a 350 spine and a 450 isn't even listed. Please educate me.

Arrow manufacturers often are working on some old numbers as bow technology has been changing faster than they can keep up. Even if they were able to keep up you might have a box that has been in circulation for a couple of years.  Manufacturers are generally averaging out bow speeds to make those graphs too.  Modern trajectory programs such as Archers-Advantage will match dynamic spine to you and your bow, draw length, arrow length, point weight, insert weight, nock weight, nock adapter, plus type, quantity and brand of fletching. 

Manufacturer's spine/arrow charts can get you started in the right area, within reason.  But most don't include enough detail to cover the differences between a 20 year old compound with a 295IBO rating, last years model Hoyt at 325 IBO and a new PSE at 360-370IBO.

I highly recommend anyone who is getting serious about archery to download one of the programs such as Archers Advantage.  Why buy a bow for $1,000, and not spend the $39.95 for such a program before you go out and stock up on $300 with of arrows.  It's a sound investment and for a seamhead like me...A whole heck of a lot of fun!!

[Nice Racks]

I was just on the C.E. website and did their calculation for the "adjusted draw weight" (ADW)for my bow.  If I understand it and calculated correctly, my ADW is about 79lbs; which puts me on the upper end of the 350 shafts.  Since this is right on the doorstep of the 450's, safety comes into play; which is why I should use those for my set up.  Am I pretty much on line with this, or am I still in deep right field?

[RadSav]

Is your draw length 29.5" as well?

[RadSav]

Life was much easier in the late 70's when all I  did was have Game Getter 2117 cut and throw on a good ole Bear Razorhead    

It sure was!  Sometimes I thing high brace height and slow speeds are worth revisiting.  And we still killed a whole crud load of animals back then.  Those were my Glory Days

[RadSav]

I updated all the information I had for you in Archers-Advantage.  Amazing how good this program is when you start putting detailed information in place!  Currently I have your Quest Primal at 70# draw weight and 29.5" of draw length.

I also changed your insert from an 11 grain Carbon Express insert to a 21 grain CB Beman/Easton insert.  I think we have it nailed on that one as now your calculated arrow weight in the AA program is 423 grains.  With the Maxima Hunter 350's that gives you just shy of what I consider optimal FOC at 11%.  That's good enough for me that if you were to keep the 350 spine I'd say you are just fine right where you are.

However, with that longer draw length combined with the Harsh 332 IBO cam I'm thinking you are definitely light on spine.  Over the past 10 or so years of using this program I've learned to trust what it says for arrow spine.  I've had a number of bows where I thought arrow flight was as good as could be expect, but I blamed the bow for not shooting them overly well.  Then by simply following Archers-Advantages recommendation on arrow spine and point weight those same bows suddenly shot the way I always thought they should.  My thought is once you have reached that optimal point in FOC and spine you the shooter can make larger mistakes in form and follow through without seeing it as pronounced on the target.

So anyway, back to your Archers Advantage profile...  Assuming your draw length is also 29.5" I show your maximum draw weight to remain "Marginal" with the .337 spined Maxima 350 to be 65#.  And to reach "Optimal" spine with that arrow your maximum draw weight would be 62#.  Dead center perfect draw weight with your set up would then be 60# of draw weight. (exactly where I am with a 335IBO bow shooting Maxima 350's and a 1/2" shorter draw length)

To hit optimal FOC using the .298 spined Maxima Hunter 450 you really should use the 125 grain point bringing your FOC to 11.7%.  However, in doing so you still don't hit optimal spine with a full 70# of draw weight.  To find yourself in the optimal range you then drop draw weight to 68#.  But, you are only slightly weak at 70# draw weight, which is completely acceptable if you don't want to lose that 4.25 fps.

Now here is the big kicker when using these programs...not all 332 IBO bows shoot the same speed.  So while AA's test bow may have been 333IBO yours may only be 330IBO.  That means it's not uncommon for these unverified numbers to be +/- 3 pounds.  That could mean you are center of optimal with your bow at 70#.  Though it is doubtful the Maxima Hunter 350 will ever put you close to Optimal if you are shooting that 29.5/70 setup.

[demontang]

Dang I need the program

[RadSav]

Dang I need the program

$39.95 for the down load is a steal!  Every serious archer should have it.

[demontang]

My problem is ive only got my phone for internet which means math has to be done to figure all thisothisout

[Nice Racks]

I updated all the information I had for you in Archers-Advantage.  Amazing how good this program is when you start putting detailed information in place!  Currently I have your Quest Primal at 70# draw weight and 29.5" of draw length.

I also changed your insert from an 11 grain Carbon Express insert to a 21 grain CB Beman/Easton insert.  I think we have it nailed on that one as now your calculated arrow weight in the AA program is 423 grains.  With the Maxima Hunter 350's that gives you just shy of what I consider optimal FOC at 11%.  That's good enough for me that if you were to keep the 350 spine I'd say you are just fine right where you are.

However, with that longer draw length combined with the Harsh 332 IBO cam I'm thinking you are definitely light on spine.  Over the past 10 or so years of using this program I've learned to trust what it says for arrow spine.  I've had a number of bows where I thought arrow flight was as good as could be expect, but I blamed the bow for not shooting them overly well.  Then by simply following Archers-Advantages recommendation on arrow spine and point weight those same bows suddenly shot the way I always thought they should.  My thought is once you have reached that optimal point in FOC and spine you the shooter can make larger mistakes in form and follow through without seeing it as pronounced on the target.

So anyway, back to your Archers Advantage profile...  Assuming your draw length is also 29.5" I show your maximum draw weight to remain "Marginal" with the .337 spined Maxima 350 to be 65#.  And to reach "Optimal" spine with that arrow your maximum draw weight would be 62#.  Dead center perfect draw weight with your set up would then be 60# of draw weight. (exactly where I am with a 335IBO bow shooting Maxima 350's and a 1/2" shorter draw length)

To hit optimal FOC using the .298 spined Maxima Hunter 450 you really should use the 125 grain point bringing your FOC to 11.7%.  However, in doing so you still don't hit optimal spine with a full 70# of draw weight.  To find yourself in the optimal range you then drop draw weight to 68#.  But, you are only slightly weak at 70# draw weight, which is completely acceptable if you don't want to lose that 4.25 fps.

Now here is the big kicker when using these programs...not all 332 IBO bows shoot the same speed.  So while AA's test bow may have been 333IBO yours may only be 330IBO.  That means it's not uncommon for these unverified numbers to be +/- 3 pounds.  That could mean you are center of optimal with your bow at 70#.  Though it is doubtful the Maxima Hunter 350 will ever put you close to Optimal if you are shooting that 29.5/70 setup.

 

Thanks RadSav. I think.