Any elk in the Entiat??

[grade-creek-rd]

Well now. since I am the one that stated it's a way for the game dept to make more money by offering an "any elk hunt" in a unit that has no elk, let me explain. For the purposes of game managment, if there are no elk in the unit, with the exception of a stray, then it's not managment of the unit. Thats like saying anybody can kill a grizzly...in southern oregon, where a grizzly hasn't been seen in over a hundred years, because maybe one will stray there from Idaho or washington...to give another WDFW example, a few years ago I went fishing with my step dad at the Wind River, where it dumps into the Columbia. This was because the WDFW put an actual news bulletin out saying the runs of springers were so good that they increased the limit to 4 a person. We got down there and were the only boat on the water...why, because the run was OVER. We marked one fish on the fish finder, and of course caught none...however, the "news bulletin" was just another political ploy by a state agency to show how well they managed a resource. Don't get me wrong, this is not a mock on the WDFW, it's just ironic when they lift the limit to 6 steelhead on the Cowlits the year that is a return of one of the largest hatchery die offs in history (coupled with the fact that they cannot recycle fish due to a private agreement with Trout Unlimited and Tacoma Power).

An Any Elk season in the Entiat is just like saying there's an any Moose Unit in the San Juans...sure one can swim there from Canada, but in reality...it isn't a reality. Besides, if elk were in the Entiat unit, then they got their "naturally", no planting of the elk like the mountain goats in the Olympics (where they are NOT native, but now are so plentiful they have destroyed native plants to eratication), yet no goat hunt in the Olympics...why, because of the political pressures from the feds to withdraw funds because most of the goats are in a National Park (this would increase hunting pressure on the boundaries of the National Park)....I can go on an on, but lets face the music people, any elk season in the Entiat is a bottle of snake oil...I got a case and I'll sell it to you real cheep

Any offense can be directed at me, afterall I said it first, I am a big boy and I fought for our freedoms, even for those that don't agree...that's what makes this country the best place on earth...now if I can just get that "any snipe stamp" and my burlap bag back from my brother in law.

[shag]

The game dept. dse not want elk in the Entiat. they would compete with food valuable to th eneeds of muledeer.  Of the deer species Muledeer are the most finiky and have the toughest time addapting to hunan encroachment.  Elk would compete for important winter feed.

Make money on us by selling any elk tags for the Entiat. Not the purpose.  Not many by elk tags with the intention of going after elk in the Entiat.  most by elk tags to hunt other areas.   My friends son bought his elk tag to hunt elk in eastern wash. just so happens he was lucky enough to draw an Entiat A tag!!  He'll still beable to hunt elk else where for a couple days. But if he dosen't score he'll have a tag left in his pocket. 

[MichaelJ]

I wonder how many does were shot durning the late season last year?  Also with more tags aren't more "culls" possibly being taken.  It seems to me that alot of people are drivin the roads just shootin any good buck.  As a hunter if you want bigger deer you gotta let the "good"bucks get "great!!!  Not all hunters have the trophy mentality.  That's why every year they settle for meat or get trigger happy on the last weekend.  Unless you are willing to harvest only trophy bucks or does or freak monster 2x2's that are bad for the gene pool than you really aren't doing your part to help create trophy bucks.

Several years in the past have had a better migration going uring the last week of the regular season than the late hunt.  Because of mother nature.  So I've been told.

Seems to me that that hunter's themselves do more to ruin trophy deer than the game dept.  I've had several years in my hunting career where I passed on over 15 buck a season.  Including several "good" bucks a season.  Why?  because I personaly wanta shoot great bucks.  Ate tag soup too many times!

Also what about the guys that shoot 3 or so small bucks a year?  Do you turn them in?  I will.  In a heart beat.  there are alot of hunters out there givin "us" a black eye and shooting "us" in the foot.  They are *censored*'s and I love to spit some beechnut in there eyes!

I plan on shooting only a "great" buck with my late tag.  For me a 170 or bigger is my plan.  I will try as hard as I can to attain that.  If I can't I'll shoot a doe on the last day. This will be hard since I've never shot a mulie. And 160 class bucks can be very tempting.

So unless you don't do your part than you can't really complain about the game dept.?  i'd love to see all of washington become a 2 pt min state for whitetail and blacktail.  And 3 pt or better for muledeer.  people would bitch for a couple years but then when they start killing bigger bucks all will be good.

Like I said I wonder how many late season mulie tag holders end up killing a doe?  Thin the heard. less competition for food is always a good thing. IMO

The Entiat has gone down the last few years, this is a fact... go down to Ardenvoir and look through the pictures of all the bucks from '01, '02, '03, '04, and '05... then look at '06.  Last year was a really dry year for the late hunt, but talk to the guy that had the raffle tag, he hunted 55 DAYS in the entiat units and saw maybe 3 bucks that went 180"...  I don't know about you but that's not very good for such a famous unit like the entiat, and remember, this is all from late October through DECEMBER.  So don't say the migration was late, even though it may have been late, it wasn't THAT late.  They saw a LOT of deer, but not the big mature bucks that's to be expected in the entiat.

'05 was a bad year for the late hunts aswell, though it was due to a early migration and all the big bucks got slaughtered by the general guys on that last weekend.

I got a hunch though that it will pick up here in the next 2-3 years, the buck to doe ratios have been extremely good, but all the bucks are really young.  However for the Game Dept to look at the kind of bucks that have been killed the last 2 years on the late entiat valley hunts, then to RAISE the tag numbers, is just plain foolish on their part and in NO WAY betters those units.

Michael

[bobcat]

The Entiat is NOT open for "any elk" so the WDFW can make more money. No way. It's not the only unit with the "any elk" season. Most, if not all, of the GMU's in Douglas, Grant, and Okanogan counties are open for any elk Oct 27 - Nov 15. As creepindeath said, not very many people buy an elk tag with the sole intention of hunting elk in one of those units. If they do, it's because they live there or for some reason spend a lot of time in one of those units, and have an idea where there might be an elk. If someone were to call the DFW and talk to a biologist I am sure they would be told that there are very few elk in those units. They aren't lying about it and trying to make it out to be an area that is over-run with elk. I asked a biologist about the chance of seeing an elk back in '04 when I had my late rifle Entiat deer permit, and was told that there was almost no chance of seeing an elk. If you look at past harvest reports you will see that there have been a few elk killed in the Entiat, some years maybe none, but others years maybe 3 or 4. And that's just the ones that get reported.

[boneaddict]

I'll agree wiht you that the Entiat isn't what it used to be, and I'll agree with you that they have too many permits for it.  Now for the disagreement.

I believe it was 2004 or 2005 that they had the extended hunt, or the extra week...weather turned cold and the migration happened.  All those that tagged out that week nailed the big ones.  It decimated the trophy potential for the next couple years.  that has had alot of effect in the Methow and the Entiat etc.  One of the main reasons that the Entiat was not a great hunt for the raffle tag guy last season.  I don't think they should have had that late of a hunt for the general, but they did. 

[WDFW-SUX]

The muley season through the end of Oct really kicked there teeth in. I saw dozens of bucks that should not have been taken over those years and now were paying the price IMHO.

[MichaelJ]

Bone and WDFW,
I said:
"'05 was a bad year for the late hunts aswell, though it was due to a early migration and all the big bucks got slaughtered by the general guys on that last weekend.",
And yes they did have the 2 week long season (or 10 days or something, just added that last weekend) and the cold moved in like you say and they got slaughtered.
Also, I believe it was '04 that they had the entiat open for the late season archery?  The bucks got SLAUGHTERED on the late hunt!  Success ratios were up what? like 70% or something crazy like that?

Either way you put it the WFDF did not manage the Entiat properly in 2004, and 2005, then in 2006 they went back to the regular season but the damage was done, then they RAISE the tag quotas for the units in 2007?  Thats poor management on their part, you and I both see that.  If anything they should lower it by 25 tags or so IMHO...

I'm disagreeing with you so much as I am pointing out different issues.  I do agree with everything you said.

Michael

[boneaddict]

my bad...re-read your post and I must have had a different thought process in my mind going on.  We are saying the same thing, so scratch that disagree part.

[George]

Bravo Creepingdeat,  Those late season permit holders would help the herd by only taking home the trophy buck and using does or freaky 2x2s for locker meat.  Let the 4 year old little 4x4 live a while longer.

P.S.  Don't pass up a chance to wack any whitetail.  Keeping whitetails out is needed to maintain the Chelan County trophy herd.

[George]

Those lucky late season deer tag winners have a great opportunity to bag a trophy buck but the next best thing is to go home with some good venison.  The dry doe will be much better eating than a three year old 4x4.  If a small buck is a "trophy" to you, take it home.  For most of us that buck needs a year or two.  It does not hurt to eat a doe.

ELK:  The only elk that I would even consider hunting north of the Wenatchee River is the Chiwawa "herd".  Other than that, if you still have your elk tag and are hunting late season bucks, watch for elk and elk tracks.  If you cut fresh tracks in the snow, head after them.  The only elk I have seen in the Entiat was a 5x5 and 6 cows bedded on the ridge above the Entiat Cemetery (last day of the season and no tag).  Saw a cow and calf cross the Chiwawa Road in Sept. about 5 miles up.  Then in the spring they sometimes feed at the Golf Course near Lake Wenatchee. I wouldn't both to hunt them.

[George]

I agree, only take a "trophy" buck with the late season tag.  Let the boy babies grow up.  Help the herd by taking bad genetics or does; hopefully a dry doe.  Better yet shoot a whitetail if you see one of those damn things.