E-mail from WDFW

[bobcat]

Regardless of WHY they are doing this, it doesn't mean we have to like it.

I do have to wonder if this is due to damage to their land, why is walk in access being shut down?

And by the way, the closure of the Pe Ell and Vail tree farms doesn't affect me, as I don't hunt either of those areas and had no plans to do so in the future.

This change is actually providing MORE acceess, just to fewer people.

[mpetersen]

It seems a better solution might be non-motorized access for more people.  I can't believe all this property damage and tons of garbage is being done by hunters. Sounds like tweekers and the like are raising hell by driving through unlocked gates.

[bearpaw]

It seems a better solution might be non-motorized access for more people.  I can't believe all this property damage and tons of garbage is being done by hunters. Sounds like tweekers and the like are raising hell by driving through unlocked gates.

I'm sure you are right, but hunters are being affected. I certainly hope a solution can be found to allow more hunters access.

[pianoman9701]

Pianoman as Bearpaw pointed out you can do the same ... Buy a bunch of land and do not develop it ... you will pay less taxes than my developed land with buildings and improvements. No where does it say cause you pay less I'm entitled to hunt on your place ... It's  really not that hard to understand??? 

What people are missing here is that Weyerhauser isn't doing this to punish you or create revenue (so sorry Bob your not going to get more permits) what they are trying to do is limit the access so they can monitor the damage to their land. Believe it or not they pay Millions a year to fix graders, machinery and trucks that are shot up by guns. They haul hundreds of thousands pounds of garbage out of the woods at their expense, then there are those who steel firewood cutting down potential future profit from the tree taken and the cost of stolen tolls and equipment and fuel. Limiting the access is also a revenue stream of savings that they wont have to spend on clean up and new equipment as well as elevated insurance premiums.
  It's been over ten years probably closer to 20 since they closed Grass Mountain road out of Enumclaw so Bob don't worry I don't think they are on a fast track to shut you out of every area. My bet is they do it to the areas most affected and that cost them the most to maintain. 

Their motivation is of no consequence. I hunt public land, so I'm not bothered by what they do with their own land. I just don't want to subsidize them with deductions they're no longer qualified for.

[M_ray]

Their motivation is of no consequence. I hunt public land, so I'm not bothered by what they do with their own land. I just don't want to subsidize them with deductions they're no longer qualified for.

First you have to prove they are getting subsidized ... I'm not sure they are and I'm certain its all relative to the amount of land they own.  They are paying a ton more than most, Your argument is putting the cart before the horse. 

[splitshot]

  the inland empire paper company  around spokane has been charging for a long time.  good hunting at $10 per day or so much for a season.  they charge hikers,mushroomers, skiers, hunters,birders,etc .  mike w

[bobcat]

  the inland empire paper company  around spokane has been charging for a long time.  good hunting at $10 per day or so much for a season.  they charge hikers,mushroomers, skiers, hunters,birders,etc .  mike w

Right, but it's a more reasonable fee, and they don't set a limit on the number of passes available.

[splitshot]

  i think the paper co.  is $10 per day per carload.  something like that.  how are these guys carging on the west side?  mike w

[bobcat]

$150 or $200 per person, depending on the area, and that's for the season. Access permits are so limited in number, that most people who want one will not be able to get it anyway.

[pianoman9701]

Their motivation is of no consequence. I hunt public land, so I'm not bothered by what they do with their own land. I just don't want to subsidize them with deductions they're no longer qualified for.

First you have to prove they are getting subsidized ... I'm not sure they are and I'm certain its all relative to the amount of land they own.  They are paying a ton more than most, Your argument is putting the cart before the horse. 

You're absolutely right. I don't know if they're getting the exemption, although if they aren't, they should have fired their tax attorney years ago. Obviously, I don't have any problem if they aren't. That's why I've asked my senator to take a look into it. As far as them paying "a ton more than most", that's a completely unsupportable statement. Are you trying to tell me that they pay a different rate from other timber companies? That would be illegal. If you mean they pay a ton more than me or you, you comment is way out of context and perspective. We're talking about timber companies and their exemptions with regards to the recreational opportunities they offer to the citizens of WA.

[pianoman9701]

You know my stance. I'm done.

[elkoholicmike]

This comes as no surprise to me. In fact it surprises me that people are still hunting this state at all. There is a concerted effort in Olympia to shut it all down and disarm the subjects of this state. I know I am not alone in seeing this coming either. Timber companies are having to close the lands because people won't quit trashing the country side. Does anyone have any idea what it costs to for them to go out clean up after people. The state won't do anything about it. So the burden falls on the land owner. If the laws were enforced that are in place then it would easier for the land owners to manage the resources. Has anyone called the authorities lately for dumping or poaching or anything else going on out there? If you have then you know what is being done by the "authorities". Nothing. So yes, it is easy to see what is going on.
I live on a dead end dirt road surrounded by thousands of acres of tree farm. They have gated every access to that land and posted it. In the hunting seasons I have a constant parade of road hunters going up and down my road because there is no gate. Now is that not stupid or what? Yes it is turning to crap in this state. It is going to a lot of work for it be corrected to. Personally I don't see correction but I'm seeing a lot more gates.
Good luck out there folks.

[M_ray]

As far as them paying "a ton more than most", that's a completely unsupportable statement.

It's not unsupported when you are the largest or one of them ... it means you have more land

http://commodityhq.com/2012/top-3-timber-stocks-by-market-cap/

Again not that hard to understand  But I'll break it down for you perhaps in more simple terms for you.

Me: I own a acre of land with a custom home and outbuildings on it in Black Diamond as well as a home in Leschi and own a business in Downtown Seattle.

You: Own a single wide in trailer park and are a seasonal worker laid off each winter.
 
Who do you think pays more taxes?

They do 5 times the volume than Rayonier so it's fair to say they pay more.
 I didn't say they pay a ton more per acre than all other timber company's as you suggest.

Back to the Topic ... It's their land and when you own land you wouldn't want the Government telling you that you have to let people on it.  This is not the first time a timber company has locked a gate and charged a fee so I'm not sure why it is a surprise to you and you think there is a conspiracy it seems the precedent has been set long ago. It sounds as if you are saying you think they are going to double dip (still receive tax breaks and charge for access) without the State finding out? LOL  I'm pretty sure it would be hard to hide that one.